Triumph 660 engine using oil

[tim0409]

Hi

A bit of a surprising issue as I’ve never had a bike before that has used meaningful amounts of oil between services until now; I’ve got a 2023 Triumph Trident 660, which I’ve owned for nearly a year and after I serviced it I noticed the oil dropped within a 1000 miles. I can’t see any physical leaks.

There is quite a bit of chat in the Triumph forums/reddit with owners experiencing the same issue and apparently anything up to 1L oil per 1000 miles is within ‘spec” according to Triumph. This seems like a hell of a lot of oil to use. I’ve done some measurements and I use approximately 200ml per 1k miles. I did read a fairly convincing post on the Triumph forum that suggested the sump is quite small for the engine, and oil was finding its way up the breather back into the air intake?

Any other owners had high oil consumption with this engine, or bikes in general?

Thanks.

[carinaman]

See the Honda CB1000 Hornet recall. It seems that engine burnt oil in previous generations of the FireBlade that used that engine.

I'd check the Triumph forums. I walked away from a £200 deposit on a lightly used months old Trident 660 in Autumn 2022 due to the cutting out and stalling issues that I found out about by chance on Triumph forums looking for find out the maker of the headlamp fairing for the insurance quote. I thought as a proven engine there wouldn't be any issues. I'd recommend the Triumph and Triumph 660 forums.

The thread here about the CB1000 Hornet includes posts about how running in may impact on the oil consumption issue on those.

[Panamax]

tim0409 said:

apparently anything up to 1L oil per 1000 miles is within spec

That's definitely the case for many car engines. Sounds a little thirsty for a 660 but hey, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Some people might suggest "try a thicker oil". I've never been convinced by that approach. IMO if it wants to burn a bit then let it burn a bit. On the positive side an engine that's burning oil is effectively on a rolling oil change. Modern engines that burn nothing have to pump the same stuff round and round for a year or two between oil changes. Which one's the winner?

[Bob_Defly]

Panamax said:

tim0409 said:

apparently anything up to 1L oil per 1000 miles is within spec

That's definitely the case for many car engines. Sounds a little thirsty for a 660 but hey, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Some people might suggest "try a thicker oil". I've never been convinced by that approach. IMO if it wants to burn a bit then let it burn a bit. On the positive side an engine that's burning oil is effectively on a rolling oil change. Modern engines that burn nothing have to pump the same stuff round and round for a year or two between oil changes. Which one's the winner?

The latter obviously. Modern engines don't need 5 oil changes a year.

[catso]

tim0409 said:

Any other owners had high oil consumption with this engine, or bikes in general?

No experience of Triumph but my Ducati Monster has a bit of an appetite for oil.

Engine has been rebuilt, runs very well but despite everything appearing to be in spec. it does use more oil than either of my other bikes, neither of which ever require top-ups between servicing.

It doesn't noticeably smoke, nor are there any real leaks (a couple of points where a smear of oil might appear) so not really sure why. I even replaced the valve guides a couple of years back because they were loose but it didn't change anything with regards to oil usage. There is a bit of blow-by whereby some oil is blown out of the breather but I have fitted a large catch-tank that recycles it back into the engine but it still needs frequent top-ups.

To be fair these engines are known to use some oil so it's not unusual but as above, neither of my other bikes uses any oil to note and one of them is nearly 50 years old and the other is essentially the same 'block' as the Monster just with a different top-end.

I've stopped worrying about it now and just buy a couple of litres extra each year for topping it up.

[MDUBZ]

BMW ( cars) have the same 1L per 1000 miles 'tolerance' to spec, which seems bonkers to me. The number of oil changes will really depend on the condition of the oil, miles, type of driving, state of tune etc, obvs if its contaminated you have other issues..

In an R56 Mini with a stty French engine ( the 'improved' n18 not the n14) i run a slightly thicker oil and it still gets through it, infact I worry if I check and it doesn't need topping up.
" they all do that sir ".

Agree it seems excessive, The only answers are:
1 move it on and get something else,
2 spend time and money identifying the cause and rectify or
3 live with it and set up a subscription with Castrol?

How much do you use it/ love it/ need to depend on it?

200ml per 1000 miles might be liveable..

Edited by MDUBZ on Monday 13th April 15:18

[Biker9090]

My old CBF500 used to burn a similar amount (150/200ml per 1000m or so) - at 80,000 miles.....

I rebuilt the head with new valve stem seals and now there's zero loss (or none that I can measure).

Bob_Defly said:

The latter obviously. Modern engines don't need 5 oil changes a year.

Exactly, I can't even believe someone needs to bloody ask.

I keep getting "suggested" facebook groups of Triumphs popping up with numerous issues recently. I'd be furious if a new bike was burning any oil.

[moanthebairns]

My 675s have all burned a litre of oil every 1,000 miles.

[Linksmas]

MDUBZ said:

In an R56 Mini with a stty French engine ( the 'improved' n18 not the n14) i run a slightly thicker oil and it still gets through it, infact I worry if I check and it doesn't need topping up.
" they all do that sir ".

Oh that reminds me my old R52 Cooper S was the biggest oil drinker I've ever had. Up there with 1l per thousands miles. I was checking the oil so often I had to buy a new dipstick as the existing one was on the cusp of snapping. That induction noise though

[catso]

MDUBZ said:

BMW ( cars) have the same 1L per 1000 miles 'tolerance' to spec, which seems bonkers to me. The number of oil changes will really depend on the condition of the oil, miles, type of driving, state of tune etc, obvs if its contaminated you have other issues..

I had a BMW 323i that had the infamous Nikasil bore wear problem. BMW told me the above bks about 1L/1,000m but I always assumed it was a figure that they had concocted to try to minimise warranty replacement engines?

They tried to get out of fixing it by saying the oil consumption was 'within spec.' until it got to the point where there was (sometimes) no compression when cold and it wouldn't start as it was just spinning as if it had no spark plugs in it.

Once they'd replaced/repaired (cast iron inserts) it was fine and didn't use any oil.