Suspension set up - the data
Discussion
Just got back from Brockfords in Needham Market. Very helpful, certainly seemed to know their stuff, even got the VIP treatment and was allowed to see the car on the ramp, natter to the mechanics etc.
They gave me print-outs of the specs and before and after readings, which they said came from TVR. I post these for general info:
FRONT
Camber: min -1.00 deg, max -0.30min
Caster: 0.00 deg (cannot be adjusted)
Toe (tracking): min 0.0mm, max 0.4mm
Inc angle: max 0.45min
SAI: max 0.00
REAR
Camber: min -1.00 deg, max -0.30min
Toe: min 1.0mm, max 1.4mm
So how did mine compare, freshly back from Offords after 12,000 mile service, new bushes and 'reset' geometry?
The castor was 3.38 and 3.48 on both fronts - yet this is apparently unadjustable (kingpins et al)! Could the fact OMC only put poly bushes on the top wishbones might explain this?
However, the toe (max 0.4mm) was actually 0.5mm on left front and a wild 2.5mm on the right front! Right rear camber and toe were also out of spec at 1.11 deg and 1.7mm respectively.
Something which did not seem to be of note was the 'inc angle' and 'SAI' both of which were 13+deg.
The moral I think is - don't believe it's been set-up unless you can see the print-outs!
They gave me print-outs of the specs and before and after readings, which they said came from TVR. I post these for general info:
FRONT
Camber: min -1.00 deg, max -0.30min
Caster: 0.00 deg (cannot be adjusted)
Toe (tracking): min 0.0mm, max 0.4mm
Inc angle: max 0.45min
SAI: max 0.00
REAR
Camber: min -1.00 deg, max -0.30min
Toe: min 1.0mm, max 1.4mm
So how did mine compare, freshly back from Offords after 12,000 mile service, new bushes and 'reset' geometry?
The castor was 3.38 and 3.48 on both fronts - yet this is apparently unadjustable (kingpins et al)! Could the fact OMC only put poly bushes on the top wishbones might explain this?
However, the toe (max 0.4mm) was actually 0.5mm on left front and a wild 2.5mm on the right front! Right rear camber and toe were also out of spec at 1.11 deg and 1.7mm respectively.
Something which did not seem to be of note was the 'inc angle' and 'SAI' both of which were 13+deg.
The moral I think is - don't believe it's been set-up unless you can see the print-outs!
Hi John (Simpo),
That's very interesting. The figures you have reproduced for front camber don't seem to tie up with what I thought was correct ie -1 to -2 degrees.
After much experimenting on my Griff I have the front camber set and regularly checked to -2 degrees. On the whole, along with the Ohlins suspension and hard poly bushes I prefer this for my style (lack of more likely) of driving.
Mike
P.S. more important though is how does your Griff now handle in your opinion?
>> Edited by MikeG on Thursday 18th July 13:59
That's very interesting. The figures you have reproduced for front camber don't seem to tie up with what I thought was correct ie -1 to -2 degrees.
After much experimenting on my Griff I have the front camber set and regularly checked to -2 degrees. On the whole, along with the Ohlins suspension and hard poly bushes I prefer this for my style (lack of more likely) of driving.
Mike
P.S. more important though is how does your Griff now handle in your opinion?
>> Edited by MikeG on Thursday 18th July 13:59
good to hear your all set up for Sunday then!
how much was the bill?
if its of any interest the suspension geometry figures that TVR gave me are
FRONT REAR
Camber in Degrees-0.75+/-0.25deg. -0.75+/_0.25deg.
Toe In 0/10 minutes total, 20/30 mins total.
Tyre Pressure 20psi. 22psi.
DAMPER SETTINGS:
215 tyres 0.5 turn from minimum. 1 turn from max.
205 tyres(new springs) 7/8 from Nil. 1 1/8 from nil.
Notes
1) All cars to be set initially on ramp.This should be reset in service after the first road test.
2) Castor not adjustable.
heliox
>> Edited by heliox on Thursday 18th July 14:28
>> Edited by heliox on Thursday 18th July 14:31
>> Edited by heliox on Thursday 18th July 14:34
how much was the bill?
if its of any interest the suspension geometry figures that TVR gave me are
FRONT REAR
Camber in Degrees-0.75+/-0.25deg. -0.75+/_0.25deg.
Toe In 0/10 minutes total, 20/30 mins total.
Tyre Pressure 20psi. 22psi.
DAMPER SETTINGS:
215 tyres 0.5 turn from minimum. 1 turn from max.
205 tyres(new springs) 7/8 from Nil. 1 1/8 from nil.
Notes
1) All cars to be set initially on ramp.This should be reset in service after the first road test.
2) Castor not adjustable.
heliox
>> Edited by heliox on Thursday 18th July 14:28
>> Edited by heliox on Thursday 18th July 14:31
>> Edited by heliox on Thursday 18th July 14:34
quote:
Just got back from Brockfords in Needham Market. Very helpful, certainly seemed to know their stuff, even got the VIP treatment and was allowed to see the car on the ramp, natter to the mechanics etc.
They gave me print-outs of the specs and before and after readings, which they said came from TVR. I post these for general info:
FRONT
Camber: min -1.00 deg, max -0.30min
Caster: 0.00 deg (cannot be adjusted)
Toe (tracking): min 0.0mm, max 0.4mm
Inc angle: max 0.45min
SAI: max 0.00
REAR
Camber: min -1.00 deg, max -0.30min
Toe: min 1.0mm, max 1.4mm
So how did mine compare, freshly back from Offords after 12,000 mile service, new bushes and 'reset' geometry?
The castor was 3.38 and 3.48 on both fronts - yet this is apparently unadjustable (kingpins et al)! Could the fact OMC only put poly bushes on the top wishbones might explain this?
However, the toe (max 0.4mm) was actually 0.5mm on left front and a wild 2.5mm on the right front! Right rear camber and toe were also out of spec at 1.11 deg and 1.7mm respectively.
Something which did not seem to be of note was the 'inc angle' and 'SAI' both of which were 13+deg.
The moral I think is - don't believe it's been set-up unless you can see the print-outs!
Glad you have got it handling the way you want. Couple of points came to mind when I read those settings.
No idea what Inc Angle is but it sounds a lot like castor - and zero castor is pretty unusual.
I don't understand how the front toe-in can be measured separately left and right, since you can steer both wheels. The only thing you can measure meaningfully is the combined toe-in. If the front has more 'toe-in' on one side than the other, doesn't that just mean the steering isn't straight? As far as the other numbers go, I expect you will get loads of different opinions about what the 'right' geometry is from different people, and I'm sure the factory spec has changed over time. But if the left and right wides aren't the same, there's something very funny going on!
'The figures you have reproduced for front camber don't seem to tie up with what I thought was correct ie -1 to -2 degrees.'
You need more for trackdays I think, so perhaps yours is set up for those. There's useful stuff at http://users.owt.com/mitcham/Media/TOURING/BENWILSN.HTML
'P.S. more important though is how does your Griff now handle in your opinion?'
It's lighter in shallow and medium corners but still needs progressively more input as radius decreases. By input I don't mean actually turning the steering wheel, but countering the tendency to self-centre.
'how much was the bill?'
£45 to measure and £45 to adjust (1.5 hours), plus VAT.
'Camber in Degrees-0.75+/-0.25deg. -0.75+/_0.25deg.'
That's the same thing but more neatly put!
'Toe In 0/10 minutes total, 20/30 mins total.'
Somehow they measure toe in mm, not mins, and they give total front toe as 0.1 min - 0.9mm max. Actually if you read the link above, toe-OUT makes sense too - doh!
'Tyre Pressure 20psi. 22psi.'
That's even lower than the handbook, which says 22/24. Brockfords set them to 26 all round. So I'm not 100% sure whether the lighter feel is the changes or the tyres! Didn't get damper settings.
You need more for trackdays I think, so perhaps yours is set up for those. There's useful stuff at http://users.owt.com/mitcham/Media/TOURING/BENWILSN.HTML
'P.S. more important though is how does your Griff now handle in your opinion?'
It's lighter in shallow and medium corners but still needs progressively more input as radius decreases. By input I don't mean actually turning the steering wheel, but countering the tendency to self-centre.
'how much was the bill?'
£45 to measure and £45 to adjust (1.5 hours), plus VAT.
'Camber in Degrees-0.75+/-0.25deg. -0.75+/_0.25deg.'
That's the same thing but more neatly put!
'Toe In 0/10 minutes total, 20/30 mins total.'
Somehow they measure toe in mm, not mins, and they give total front toe as 0.1 min - 0.9mm max. Actually if you read the link above, toe-OUT makes sense too - doh!
'Tyre Pressure 20psi. 22psi.'
That's even lower than the handbook, which says 22/24. Brockfords set them to 26 all round. So I'm not 100% sure whether the lighter feel is the changes or the tyres! Didn't get damper settings.
quote:
Bizarre.
Not really, there's a typo in /mitchham/.
Any advice for temperature guage needle jumping all over the place, is it the guage, thermostat or an earthing problem. I'm running around with my override switch on constantly just to be on the safe side.
No mention of how good head gaskets are on the Griffith 500 then!
Dave
quote:
Somebody had fitted one of those duff 4.3BV versions that aren't upto it....
Steve, so your gasket has gone then? That'll teach you to upset the myth that is Griffi 4.3!
BUT I hear tell that in the event of head gasket failure, with a Griffith 500 one gets a much better class of emulsion; its thicker, creamier, much whiter and all round a much better byproduct package than that of a 4.x. You can also have the option of emulsion colour, perhaps to match the interior, through the judicious selection of engine oil
Looks like it. The increasing oil level and decreasing water level is a bit of a giveaway. I alos know where they got the original idea for magnolia in the Griff 4.xes... Its the same colour as the mayonnaise in the filler cap.
Anyway I wasn't insulting the 4.3, just bringing some reality to some of the claims. Did you know if you drop a 4.3 off a cliff at the the same time as a Speed 12 it can keep up! They lost the recipe when they made those old'uns...
Steve
Anyway I wasn't insulting the 4.3, just bringing some reality to some of the claims. Did you know if you drop a 4.3 off a cliff at the the same time as a Speed 12 it can keep up! They lost the recipe when they made those old'uns...
Steve
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