Car Entry with No Battery
Discussion
Hi chaps,
Forced to leave the beast for 2 months with no conditioner attached - result is that red alarm LED is still flashing and responds to the blipper, but there seems not to be enough power to activate the door lock solenoids. The doors stay locked. I remember reading in the heath bible that disconnecting the power entirely can set off the alarm (does it have its own power source?), but clearly there is still enough power in the flat battery to make it think it is still connected, but not to operate the locks.
I need to get in to hook up a charger with the battery in-situ. I know one method of entry via the roof, but am concerned about setting the alarm off. I think from reading other posts on this forum that there is another technique involving an external key lock - can someone confirm (by direct email off my profile if appropriate) where this is and whether the alarm will still go off when I enter?
I've got another battery standing by and if it does go off hopefully I can connect it in parallel and then disarm the alarm with the blipper. Sorry neighbours.
Thanks!
M
Edited to say I've just got the info from the owners handbook which I had lost but have now found! Hope it works.
>>> Edited by hamish on Wednesday 12th March 17:16
Forced to leave the beast for 2 months with no conditioner attached - result is that red alarm LED is still flashing and responds to the blipper, but there seems not to be enough power to activate the door lock solenoids. The doors stay locked. I remember reading in the heath bible that disconnecting the power entirely can set off the alarm (does it have its own power source?), but clearly there is still enough power in the flat battery to make it think it is still connected, but not to operate the locks.
I need to get in to hook up a charger with the battery in-situ. I know one method of entry via the roof, but am concerned about setting the alarm off. I think from reading other posts on this forum that there is another technique involving an external key lock - can someone confirm (by direct email off my profile if appropriate) where this is and whether the alarm will still go off when I enter?
I've got another battery standing by and if it does go off hopefully I can connect it in parallel and then disarm the alarm with the blipper. Sorry neighbours.
Thanks!
M
Edited to say I've just got the info from the owners handbook which I had lost but have now found! Hope it works.
>>> Edited by hamish on Wednesday 12th March 17:16
)The cigarette lighter is connected to the battery all the time though. To do it through the headlights I guess you'd have to turn the headlights on first inside the car to make to connection to the battery!
It can be done though the starter motor though, i think. There are two cables to the starter, one to trigger the solenoid, and one (the thick one) which is live all the time, which powers the starter motor.
This can be accessed from under the car i believe.
>> Edited by dannyboyo on Wednesday 12th March 21:09
It can be done though the starter motor though, i think. There are two cables to the starter, one to trigger the solenoid, and one (the thick one) which is live all the time, which powers the starter motor.
This can be accessed from under the car i believe.
>> Edited by dannyboyo on Wednesday 12th March 21:09
Nope, because unless the lights were left on, this would be an open circuit.
hut49 said: Just a stupid thought, but if you can trickle charge the battery through the cigarette lighter can you do the same through the headlamp connection?
Despite the fact that the door solenoids don't open, can you tell whether you are disarming the alarm or not? Do the indicators flash?
Think you are probably just gonna have to go for it - do you have a batterey conditioner with a cigarette lighter plug, and are you near a power point? If so, you could immediately plug this in as soon as you broke in, which might give you enough power to disarm the alarm with the plipper...
dannyboyo said: The cigarette lighter is connected to the battery all the time though. To do it through the headlights I guess you'd have to turn the headlights on first inside the car to make to connection to the battery!
Good thinking - still I was on the right track!
[:walksawayhavingconvincedhimselfheknewanythingatall:]
>> Edited by hut49 on Wednesday 12th March 21:13
CraigAlsop said:Are you sure? Surely if this was live all the time, the starter motor would be constantly on?
dannyboyo said: There are two cables to the starter, one to trigger the solenoid, and one (the thick one) which is live all the time, which powers the starter motor.
The smaller thinner cable engages the solenoid, which pops the starter cog onto the flywheel and at the same time connects the thicker cable to the motor. But the cable that runs to the starter is live, the switching on and off of the motor is done inside the solenoid. It must be live all the time as the cranking ampage that it needs is in the region of 500-600amps I think, not to many ignition switches or standard relays can handle that kind of power, the solenoid attched to the starter motor acts as a big relay basically!
I think I'm right on this anyway, if i'm not i'm sure a resident bod will show us the light!
Edited to fill in a few gaps
>> Edited by dannyboyo on Wednesday 12th March 23:00
Hi Guy's, whilst I'm an engineer, I must admit that I'm a mechanical numpty. So wading in with both feet and mouth wide open....
Are you worried about the alarm going off for a long time if you get into the car?
If that’s you main concern, why not remove the alarm horn! Sure when you remove it keeps going under it own steam for a little while, but if you wrap it in a blanket it won't be too bad.
:numptytriestofindsomethingtohidebehindtoavoidincomingflak:
Big Al.
Are you worried about the alarm going off for a long time if you get into the car?
If that’s you main concern, why not remove the alarm horn! Sure when you remove it keeps going under it own steam for a little while, but if you wrap it in a blanket it won't be too bad.
:numptytriestofindsomethingtohidebehindtoavoidincomingflak:
Big Al.
Dannyboyo spot on with the starter theory. The first thing to do is stuff a bit of rag in the siren, when you connect second battery the change in voltage will probable set the alarm off. Then if you can access the starter you connect positive from second battery to the big solenoid nut away from the motor body. Then connect negative to a GOOD earth point - anywhere. Connect leads to car first making sure they do not touch and then the battery - much safer. Turn alarm off when it goes off, car should be working again, once open disconnect everything do not crank car with this connection.
Ivan
Ivan
Trickle charging techniques through the lighter etc are in the bible and in the sample chapter on my website.
The cigarrette lighter is OK but some are wired to be ignition only and I know of a couple of cars where the pos/neg were swapped around. It is also limited in the amount of current you can use. Please check before you burn out wires and set fire to the car!
Steve
www.tvrbooks.co.uk
The cigarrette lighter is OK but some are wired to be ignition only and I know of a couple of cars where the pos/neg were swapped around. It is also limited in the amount of current you can use. Please check before you burn out wires and set fire to the car!
Steve
www.tvrbooks.co.uk
Well I hesitated over posting on such a piddling topic, but am glad I did - the idea of hooking to the starter motor connection is pure class!
Sadly not enough room to get access under the car and the jack was locked in the boot so for speed I entered via another method. (My car strangely doesn't have the option mentioned in the handbook). The blipper had made the alarm LED go out (but no usual corresponding indicator flash, just a very unusual squeal from the siren) and in fact when I entered there was no response from the alarm. Hooked up a charger and with power to all systems there has still been no response from the alarm so I think I've got off lightly. Battery probably knackered but could be worse! (eg code reset).
Thanks for all the helpful suggestions!
M
Sadly not enough room to get access under the car and the jack was locked in the boot so for speed I entered via another method. (My car strangely doesn't have the option mentioned in the handbook). The blipper had made the alarm LED go out (but no usual corresponding indicator flash, just a very unusual squeal from the siren) and in fact when I entered there was no response from the alarm. Hooked up a charger and with power to all systems there has still been no response from the alarm so I think I've got off lightly. Battery probably knackered but could be worse! (eg code reset).
Thanks for all the helpful suggestions!
M
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