Help, car won't start, poss. ignition

[full_chat]

I need your help before I give up and call the RAC! Here's the history, the ignition lead from the coil to the cap had to be replaced, the replacement was quite short and came off a couple of times. The car spent a few days in my garage and until I fitted a new lead but the car refused to fire. There is a spark from this new lead as I tested it against the block. I replaced the cap and rotar arm and still no joy, even tried the old lead but nothing, the engine turns but refuses to fire.

I have had the bible out, tried numerous combinations, it isn't out of petrol!!!!

All ideas welcome before I lose patience,

Thanks,

Chris

[hut49]

First Q: why did the HT lead need to be replaced?

2Q: Are the plugs sparking? Should be easy to see in the dark if you pull off one of the plug extensions and hold it near the exhaust.

3Q: Can you hear the fuel pump priming when you turn the ignition on?

Hutch

[bigtone]

Full_Chat is at work with no internet access, so has asked me to post back on the questions:

The original lead just came apart. It ran for a while on a lead borrowed from my 3000M, and was fine, but was replaced with a new one as I needed the M one back.

He hasn't checked the sparks at the plugs as yet, just at the end of the HT lead against the block.

The fuel pump does sound as if it's priming normally.

Does this help the diagnosis?

Cheers, Tony

[mongoose]

i had a problem like this once on an opel manta.there was always a spark but it just wouldnt run.turned out it was the ignition module breaking down but still trying to work,hence a spark was still created.new module fitted and all ok.

[bigtone]

Any idea how he'd be able to check for this, on a '98 Chim 450? How about strength of spark, or is the fact that there is a spark there at all good enough?

These new fangled engines - i'll stick to the essex I reckon

[full_chat]

Ok, I haven't yet checked a plug lead for a spark but it is looking like it's the ignition module, are these easy to remove as I would like to take it out and fully check all the connections, and if it is knackered how much are they to replace?

Thanks for your help,

Chris

[xain]

Could the rotor arm/distro cap be grotty? There's a spring in the disto cap to ensure contact with with top of the rotor arm. If this is broken it might explain it...

[GarrySewell]

Had a similar problem - many times!!

The car will crank over but withgout the slightest intention of starting!!

A very nice man from teh AA pointed out the problem and cured it - at least for a few weeks.

I then did the job properly and now seems OK.

Across the top of teh engine (in front of teh plenum chamber you will find a loom of wires - with spade connectors around the centre of the engine(at least on my 94 version).

Disconnect these wires (1 x 1 yo avoid in correct re-connection) and with som fine emery and WD40 clean the terminals. If I remember correctly there are 3 wires with 6 spade connectors total.

Having cleaned them all, try starting again - hopefully you will have cured your problem!!

These wires connect teh coil and distributor and I believe ity is something to do with the timing of teh spark that causes teh problems

Good luck!!

Gaz.

[full_chat]

Just tried cleaning the connectors but no joy. Checked my RAC cover and I don't have home start so looks like it will be spending the b/h weekend in shame in my garage. I am thoroughly annoyed (polite way of putting it!). By process of elimination I reckon it is this ignition module, although whatever it is, it's strange that is was working 100% when I last drove the car.

I am now strangley wishing the weekend away, wrong!!!!!!!

Regards for now,
Chris

[hut49]

I'm not convinced by the ignition module failure idea. I've learnt not to adopt the helpful coincidence theory when trying to diagnose faults. If the system was working fine before you changed the HT lead and it isn't now then that's got to be the place to start. A coincidental ignition module failure is stretching (un)luck. Go back over exactly what you did and see if you could have dislodged something. Can't remember if you're getting a spark at the plugs? Are u? This must be the first test.

Hutch

[Mark adams]

Generally the amplifiers are very reliable. They are also very expensive (around £70 plus VAT), so you would want to be quite sure before replacing it.

However there is a certain type of coil that is fitted to these cars that gives a lot of problems. The trouble maker is plain gloss black on the case, and is marked "Coil 220 Electronic" or similar. There is no manufacturers mark or country of origin (presumably they are too ashamed to admit it).

This year I have binned loads of them. There is a simple diagnostic that picks out the worst of them - take it off and shake it! On the worst duffers you can hear the oil sloshing about in it, and sometimes even the guts banging around in the can.

Often oil can be seen leaking from the bottom of the point where the orange-brown tower is crimped into the metal case. There is an intersting variation on this theme where the coil cracks inside the king lead tower. Oil is forced out as the coil warms up, which builds up pressure under the rubber king lead boot. When the critical pressure level is reached the king lead just pops out of the coil, and the car stops!

Hope this helps.

If you need to replace it you should always use the genuine Bosch coil, carrying the Land Rover part number PRC6574. These are about £45 plus VAT. Interestingly I have yet to see a duff Bosch coil - they are much better made (and heavier too). In case of emergency the Lucas coil DLB198 is fine too.

[full_chat]

Just had the chance to go out in the garage, took out a spark plug, cranked engine and no spark, and they do smell of fuel (so injectors working ok). This makes me think even more it's the ignition amplifier module, please can someone give me an idiots guide to testing this - i.e. what wires of the multimeter do I put where and with engine cranking or ignition on etc.

Thanks,

Chris

edited to say I have also replaced the coil (with a Blutronics one as no Bosch ones at the motorfactors) - mine was a ropey old black one!

>> Edited by full_chat on Wednesday 7th May 16:28

>> Edited by full_chat on Wednesday 7th May 17:20

[Dan M]

I would agree with Mark - a friend (a mechanic!) had a spark on his Griff but it would not run. The RAC man couldn't find the fault either. He later found that the coil was giving a spark, but a very weak one.

New coil and no problems since.

[GreenV8S]

full_chat said: This makes me think even more it's the ignition amplifier module, please can someone give me an idiots guide to testing this - i.e. what wires of the multimeter do I put where and with engine cranking or ignition on etc.

Thanks,

Chris

Duff ignition but not necessarily the ignition module itself - there are plenty of other ways for it to go wrong. Some troubleshooting tips are mentioned in this thread: DEAD CAR - IGNITION PROBLEMS TOO??