Water leaking Leaking into footwells
Discussion
I have pools of water in both the foot wells, (unknown before - as the car has never been stored outside)!
It appears to be coming in / dripping from under neath the dashboard area, just above the blower switch / boot release button area, on the drivers side (RHD), so I have narrowed it down to the windscreen rubber failing, as there's no other possible point of entry visible around there? (Is there?).
lHS the screen rubber is also split, but not clear where the water is coming in from, other than above the underside of the dash area.
Upon inspection I can see the screen rubber is split in the lower L &R corners of the windscreen, so it appears to have failed with age, the splits are parallel to the glass, not across the width of the rubber.
Q: is this a "normal" failure point?
Q: is the screen bonded in?
Q: is it a "do it yourself" job to replace the rubber?
Q: any pitfalls I should consider?
Q: best practice? ( Don't say visit Windscreen company please!)
Q: is it a generic screen rubber?
Any advise appreciated,
Phil.
It appears to be coming in / dripping from under neath the dashboard area, just above the blower switch / boot release button area, on the drivers side (RHD), so I have narrowed it down to the windscreen rubber failing, as there's no other possible point of entry visible around there? (Is there?).
lHS the screen rubber is also split, but not clear where the water is coming in from, other than above the underside of the dash area.
Upon inspection I can see the screen rubber is split in the lower L &R corners of the windscreen, so it appears to have failed with age, the splits are parallel to the glass, not across the width of the rubber.
Q: is this a "normal" failure point?
Q: is the screen bonded in?
Q: is it a "do it yourself" job to replace the rubber?
Q: any pitfalls I should consider?
Q: best practice? ( Don't say visit Windscreen company please!)
Q: is it a generic screen rubber?
Any advise appreciated,
Phil.
I’ve replaced the screen rubber, it’s available from Motaclan. You need to clear out the existing Sikaflex from the channel that the rubber sits in then bond the new one in.
Also worth checking the usual water ingress points under the bonnet where various pipes / cables go through the wing and bulkhead, the clutch cylinder cover (I think it’s the clutch) and the master cylinder.
I have been chasing leaks forever. A great tip I saw which I am going to try next spring is to put a disco smoke machine in the cabin and observe where the smoke exits to find the leaks.
Also worth checking the usual water ingress points under the bonnet where various pipes / cables go through the wing and bulkhead, the clutch cylinder cover (I think it’s the clutch) and the master cylinder.
I have been chasing leaks forever. A great tip I saw which I am going to try next spring is to put a disco smoke machine in the cabin and observe where the smoke exits to find the leaks.
From memory, I'd be looking under the bonnet at points where cables go through the fibreglass from the engine bay into the cabin. When looking at the engine bay, picture where the driver's foot well actually is and look for stuff running from the engine bay into that foot well.
Well respected technique for tracing leaks is to stand on your head in the foot well while an accomplice with a watering can pours water onto the fibreglass in the engine bay until you start to see water leaking into the cabin.
Wot miniman said. And I love the idea of using a smoke machine.
Well respected technique for tracing leaks is to stand on your head in the foot well while an accomplice with a watering can pours water onto the fibreglass in the engine bay until you start to see water leaking into the cabin.
Wot miniman said. And I love the idea of using a smoke machine.
I've had several TVRs with leaks into the footwell, and it hasn't been the windscreen, although I have suspected it. The fact you say it's dripping off the buttons suggests it may be, or perhaps through the windscreen washer jet apertures.
The most common failure for me has been the sealant around the brake fluid reservoir. It may look OK but a tiny leak allows water into the brake servo area and the water tracks back into the footwell.
The most common failure for me has been the sealant around the brake fluid reservoir. It may look OK but a tiny leak allows water into the brake servo area and the water tracks back into the footwell.
From my experience, the water in the drivers footwell is typically from the brake fluid reservoir and/or the clutch cover on the inner wing - as sixor8 mentioned, but also Johno's list.
There are a couple of other grommets you could re-seal as a matter of course, including the ones that the bonnet release and accelerator cable comes through. I would suggest using ordinary black silicone sealant - I have done it with Sikaflex 221, but found that failed as it doesn't flex as much as silicone.
The windscreen rubber is not a generic piece, so if yours is relatively in tact, you would be as well to try to neatly fill the cracks with Sikaflex.
Alternatively, carefully take it off and reseat it - taking care to ensure it meets the roof properly (not too loose or too tight), and meets the window runners properly too.
When I took mine off to do this (it had been poorly done with clear silicone and looked bad) I couldn't see how it would allow a leak, and the doors are theoretically sealed against the body on the seal they meet.
The seal that runs around the door sills and over the windscreen is a generic profile, easy to get, and easy to replace - just need to ensure it is properly fitted to all the curves, and either riveted or self-tapper'd at the ends where it meets the roof hinge.
I got mine from ebay, cost around £25.
Not related to where you are seeing ingress, the other thing to check is the sill seal - does yours have two pinches or nicks along the bottom?
A factory fix to allow pooling water to drain away to the outside rather than finding its way inside.
There are a couple of other grommets you could re-seal as a matter of course, including the ones that the bonnet release and accelerator cable comes through. I would suggest using ordinary black silicone sealant - I have done it with Sikaflex 221, but found that failed as it doesn't flex as much as silicone.
The windscreen rubber is not a generic piece, so if yours is relatively in tact, you would be as well to try to neatly fill the cracks with Sikaflex.
Alternatively, carefully take it off and reseat it - taking care to ensure it meets the roof properly (not too loose or too tight), and meets the window runners properly too.
When I took mine off to do this (it had been poorly done with clear silicone and looked bad) I couldn't see how it would allow a leak, and the doors are theoretically sealed against the body on the seal they meet.
The seal that runs around the door sills and over the windscreen is a generic profile, easy to get, and easy to replace - just need to ensure it is properly fitted to all the curves, and either riveted or self-tapper'd at the ends where it meets the roof hinge.
I got mine from ebay, cost around £25.
Not related to where you are seeing ingress, the other thing to check is the sill seal - does yours have two pinches or nicks along the bottom?
A factory fix to allow pooling water to drain away to the outside rather than finding its way inside.
Thanks for all the valuable replies.
The car has not been driven for Months so none of the ingress is caused by "forced" water ingress.
The drips are from behind the lower curved portion of the dashboard, so too high up in relation to any that might be entering through the clutch brake cover sealants areas.
It could be round the wiper mechanism, good call! The washers on my car are tubes fitted to the wiper blades, so the exit holes through the bodywork wouldn't be in the correct place to allow water coming through 2 feet to the right and left of the central area - can't believe it's tracking that far across the car to drop on the switches mentioned though?
No, for me it's the screen, just wondered if it's a screen rubber that's glued in, or a proper "bonded in" screen with rubber trim piece stuck on top - noting there's quite a difference in description between the two methods?
Anybody know the actual method of holding in the screen???
The car has not been driven for Months so none of the ingress is caused by "forced" water ingress.
The drips are from behind the lower curved portion of the dashboard, so too high up in relation to any that might be entering through the clutch brake cover sealants areas.
It could be round the wiper mechanism, good call! The washers on my car are tubes fitted to the wiper blades, so the exit holes through the bodywork wouldn't be in the correct place to allow water coming through 2 feet to the right and left of the central area - can't believe it's tracking that far across the car to drop on the switches mentioned though?
No, for me it's the screen, just wondered if it's a screen rubber that's glued in, or a proper "bonded in" screen with rubber trim piece stuck on top - noting there's quite a difference in description between the two methods?
Anybody know the actual method of holding in the screen???
I haven't had my windscreen replaced, though it has been done in the past.
I believe it is just bonded into place, and the rubber is a trim around the edge rather than a seal.
Therefore it could be possible that the bonding of your screen has failed somewhere.
It is easy enough to take the rubber trim off to look more closely.
On the wiper spindles, I suspect there are a few variations on how that comes together.
Mine are not particularly well sealed, but I have no evidence of leaking.
And in a different situation on my car, the tube that feeds the wiper washer nozzles from the water bottle had popped off within the bulkhead cavity - in my case there was zero access to that until I cut a hole through from the inside. But also, when I was figuring it out, by pulling the steering column stalk to activate the spray, I could hear it running, and it was essentially just spraying water into that cavity, but again water didn't make its way into the car, it just eventually evaporated after I fixed the tube connection.
You might need to try the old method of getting an assistant with a watering can pouring it onto the car, whilst you stick your head in the footwells to see what comes through!
I believe it is just bonded into place, and the rubber is a trim around the edge rather than a seal.
Therefore it could be possible that the bonding of your screen has failed somewhere.
It is easy enough to take the rubber trim off to look more closely.
On the wiper spindles, I suspect there are a few variations on how that comes together.
Mine are not particularly well sealed, but I have no evidence of leaking.
And in a different situation on my car, the tube that feeds the wiper washer nozzles from the water bottle had popped off within the bulkhead cavity - in my case there was zero access to that until I cut a hole through from the inside. But also, when I was figuring it out, by pulling the steering column stalk to activate the spray, I could hear it running, and it was essentially just spraying water into that cavity, but again water didn't make its way into the car, it just eventually evaporated after I fixed the tube connection.
You might need to try the old method of getting an assistant with a watering can pouring it onto the car, whilst you stick your head in the footwells to see what comes through!
If the car hasn't been outside for months this isn't a water ingress due to rain etc situation, if the car is garaged and developing water in the footwells it must be coming from a water source already somewhere in the car like washer jet bottle fluid leaking or any other fluid type that is normally stored somewhere?
That point opens more questions on what has brought the leak to light.
The washer fluid bottle is in the nose of the car, behind/below the OS headlight, and the hoses don't really hold the water as there is no non-return valve as standard. Even if there was, it would be such a nominal quantity of water, you probably would notice.
The only other fluid that enters the cabin as a matter of routing is the engine coolant for the cabin heating system, but that is restricted to the pipes that sit above the battery/ECU location in the passenger footwell. You can check your coolant levels, and those pipes quite easily, and the colour of the fluid will be a giveaway.
The chances are, it's a seal around the door/roof/windows. There are a couple of spots where water can get past what appears to be a seal, and follow a channel until it can escape - from the top roof section down the side of the windscreen frame, from the door seals towards the bottom sill.
I'd definitely invite an assistant to get a hosepipe on a gentle shower setting to spray the car with you inside it, and see what happens.
The washer fluid bottle is in the nose of the car, behind/below the OS headlight, and the hoses don't really hold the water as there is no non-return valve as standard. Even if there was, it would be such a nominal quantity of water, you probably would notice.
The only other fluid that enters the cabin as a matter of routing is the engine coolant for the cabin heating system, but that is restricted to the pipes that sit above the battery/ECU location in the passenger footwell. You can check your coolant levels, and those pipes quite easily, and the colour of the fluid will be a giveaway.
The chances are, it's a seal around the door/roof/windows. There are a couple of spots where water can get past what appears to be a seal, and follow a channel until it can escape - from the top roof section down the side of the windscreen frame, from the door seals towards the bottom sill.
I'd definitely invite an assistant to get a hosepipe on a gentle shower setting to spray the car with you inside it, and see what happens.
I'm now confused; I initially presumed that the OP was stating that the car hadn't been outside until recently and, now parked outside, was leaking. The obvious culprits have been mentioned.
It now reads as if the car hasn't been outside? Which is correct?
The coolant pipes had crossed my mind but that wouldn't explain both footwells. If outside, if on a slope, which was is car facing? Stiching/joint of rear 'window' with the roof material? The seal at the leading edge of the targa top?
If not been outside, then there isn't much that could cause it, and it's already been mentioned, ie washer hose or coolant pipes. Heater matrix? The washer hose doesn't seem likely due to the amount mentioned.
What is the fluid like, ie clear, coolant, smell of screenwash etc?
It now reads as if the car hasn't been outside? Which is correct?
The coolant pipes had crossed my mind but that wouldn't explain both footwells. If outside, if on a slope, which was is car facing? Stiching/joint of rear 'window' with the roof material? The seal at the leading edge of the targa top?
If not been outside, then there isn't much that could cause it, and it's already been mentioned, ie washer hose or coolant pipes. Heater matrix? The washer hose doesn't seem likely due to the amount mentioned.
What is the fluid like, ie clear, coolant, smell of screenwash etc?
Was washer tubes on mine. Lift top dash off (about 4 screws) and was easy to see. Seemed to pool in various compartments and only make itself known via suprise wet leg (band name!) on next tight corner.
Benefit of lifting the dash top is you can see how they started with the wiper motor and proceeded to build the entire car around it !
Benefit of lifting the dash top is you can see how they started with the wiper motor and proceeded to build the entire car around it !
After re-reading the OP, I took a look this morning since yesterday was a very rainy day.
I had forgotten about the grommet for the door wiring, but that is below the area of water mentioned.
What I did notice though is the amount of water sitting around the seals where they meet the outside - specifically down the A pillar where the aluminium door channel meets it, and where the door presses against the seal just below that (water comes up to that seal having run around the body and behind the front of the door).
Nothing is getting past that seal on my car, but they are certainly challenged to do their job - it is the the profile that runs around the door sill, up the A pillars, over the windscreen and down the other side the same way.
It's worth checking how well the door is met by this seal on your car - again by sitting in there, and have someone pour water on the car from the outside.
It shouldn't be difficult to solve.
If it's not this seal, then your onto the windscreen wiper area, though that is harder to solve.
I also continue to doubt it will be the washer water, unless you've been using the wiper jets a lot.
I had forgotten about the grommet for the door wiring, but that is below the area of water mentioned.
What I did notice though is the amount of water sitting around the seals where they meet the outside - specifically down the A pillar where the aluminium door channel meets it, and where the door presses against the seal just below that (water comes up to that seal having run around the body and behind the front of the door).
Nothing is getting past that seal on my car, but they are certainly challenged to do their job - it is the the profile that runs around the door sill, up the A pillars, over the windscreen and down the other side the same way.
It's worth checking how well the door is met by this seal on your car - again by sitting in there, and have someone pour water on the car from the outside.
It shouldn't be difficult to solve.
If it's not this seal, then your onto the windscreen wiper area, though that is harder to solve.
I also continue to doubt it will be the washer water, unless you've been using the wiper jets a lot.
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