Indicator issue

[Paulprior]

I have just reconnected the battery after doing some work over the winter and I see an issue with the indicators, the near side all work ok but the offside are all on full time, not flashing but on solid, that’s with the ignition on or off as well as if the indicator is on or not, I have not touched the indicator wiring although I have been messing around in the carbon canister area where there appears to be a couple of relays , quite possibly non standard , any thoughts ???

[Penelope Stopit]

Alarm systems often cause this

Alarms often arm when reconnecting the battery

Faulty alarm units often switch a permanent supply to one or both indicator circuits when armed or disconnected and reconnected

Is there a faulty alarm hidden somewhere?

Some central locking control units also cause this

[Paulprior]

I have charged the battery and reset the alarm, no change, I have also found that OS park light is ok but no main or high beam, so guess I need to try and get in there and try to measure to see what’s going on, pretty bad access though but does anyone know how it should work, I guess there is a flasher relay somewhere just switching the 12v on / off ??

[Zener]

Should be no relays in the carbon can area and I would be go straight back in there to check what this is all about there can be no 12v + to the indicator circuit only via hazard switch or alarm relay's (not via stalk) with ign off I would be straight back in there seeing whats been disturbed or wiggling the wires to see if the fault changes , if it clears up I would still want to investigate whats in place there and why?

[Colin RedGriff]

There is an earth point at the front of the chassis near the carbon cannister. Main chassi rail lower offside. Theres a bolt and earth in the end of it. Might be worth checking that

[Paulprior]

It doesn’t exactly look very standard, the problem is you can only get one in and then you can’t see anything

And it looks like someone has linked all the earths together and connected them somewhere, I will try and find out where.

[Penelope Stopit]

Nice find

Blue/White - Main Beam

Blue/Red - Dip Beam

Relays are wired into headlight circuits

It's a proper bodge, should have been fitted inside the car or in an engine bay waterproof box

Crimps are real bad too

Anyway, nice find

[Paulprior]

Thanks for the info, I think I will track why the headlights don’t work as it’s probably a simpler circuit and if I get lucky it might reveal the indicator issue

[Penelope Stopit]

Paulprior said:

Thanks for the info, I think I will track why the headlights don’t work as it’s probably a simpler circuit and if I get lucky it might reveal the indicator issue

There's a good chance you're onto something

The indicators could be linking to the relay supplies due to a loss of earths somewhere

[Belle427]

Maybe someone added the relays to the headlight circuit to try and cure a volt drop problem?

[QBee]

Seeing the early post from Penelope, I had this problem, but without me having fiddled.

Came out one morning to find the indicators on, but solid, not flashing, and one side only.
Result was a trip to see the alarm man Carl Baker (www.tvr.tv).
Trip to his workshop at his home, one full day freezing my wotists off in his underheated kitchen.

New alarm immobiliser, remote boot opening on the key, and the hot start kit binned.
Never had an alarm issue since

[Adrian@]

Sounds like one of the Omron G2R (from memory, and I think they were 9V, again from memory) relays within the central locking has latched...I have swapped them many times, I cannot find a number for the relay ATM (read it off the side prior to ordering), easy enough job with a soldering iron and they cost around 10UKP for 5, when I last purchased them .
Adrian@

[Zener]

Paulprior said:

It doesn’t exactly look very standard, the problem is you can only get one in and then you can’t see anything

And it looks like someone has linked all the earths together and connected them somewhere, I will try and find out where.

WOW thats ugly

[Paulprior]

Adrian@ said:

Sounds like one of the Omron G2R (from memory, and I think they were 9V, again from memory) relays within the central locking has latched...I have swapped them many times, I cannot find a number for the relay ATM (read it off the side prior to ordering), easy enough job with a soldering iron and they cost around 10UKP for 5, when I last purchased them .
Adrian@

Are there individual relays then within the central locking unit for each side of the car for the indicators ??, I have the Foxguard immobiliser system, I know where that is, is the central locking unit nearby ?, I am thinking a little tap might be a good first step, I cannot get to the wiring for the lights without removing the headlight I think, I seem to have located 2 relays, 2 10A fuses and what looks like the connector that would normally push onto the back of a bulb but is instead being used as a cable connector, so ugly is quite polite

[Adrian@]

Yes to individual side indicator related relays, (I am trying to visualise how many relays there on the board and there might be 4 BUT the clear tops come off and to me, it was obvious which relay was latched, but that's me, and I could then prove the point by bringing each side indicators on ) I am not one for tapping anything, BUT powering down and cycling through battery off and on was a cure by the owners, whilst waiting for me to fix the issue. A@

[Adrian@]

Re the headlamps...that looks like a upgrade kit, is it powered through from the starter. One of the issues back when, was (and still is I suppose), that the bulb holders would melt if you installed 100/80 watt bulbs in place of the 60/55...so, you could buy into a kit with female connections and relays with ceramic bulb holder ...OR a DIY'er who would/could not bring themselves spend the money on a kit, and heyho. (the ceramic heads are hanging down out of shot! two relays, two female plugs/ two ceramic male connectors and a 40 amp fuse/holder and some red wire)

A@

Edited by Adrian@ on Thursday 26th March 18:40

[Paulprior]

That could be what I have , so yes to a red cable from the starter motor, maybe 4mm, into a fuse near the starter then off to the front coming in under the rad, splits into 2 smaller cables, each one fused and then to the relay.
So yes it’s ugly and virtually impossible to work on, how could I make it to something more user friendly and neater ?

[Belle427]

Rip it all out and put back to standard.
Consider an led lamp conversion if you drive a lot at night, it's been documented on here somewhere and isn't too difficult.

[Adrian@]

There must be many of these hidden in the nose of the cars. check the bulb holders are not melted (the very reason that requires/allows the headlamps to be upgraded) work through the system and check integrity of each connection and tidy it up. Spend a little time and maybe money on the right tools/connections/crimps/covers and ties to install it correctly, and make it good. Now you know what it is, the the wiring diagram to it is simple, (MY pet hate on it, was that the main feed was never shrouded where it came off the starter motor and the engine vibration MIGHT have rubbed through over time, SO worth a double check). A@

[Paulprior]

Yes I have seen the LED conversion topics, but I rarely drive at night, my reflectors are reasonable so I will leave as original
More curious as to why the mod was done, maybe because of the power upgrade but it’s only done on one side, the relays that have been added appear to be switched by the original light power cables, maybe they have been reconnected at the fuse board end to the switching circuit rather than the power circuit that they would usually been used for ??
But while investigating this I realised that the reason for the headlights not working was because they were powered from the battery connection at the starter motor and as I had fitted a new power cable I had not yet connected it to the battery, once done the lights worked ok, and so did the indicators, the headlight issue is clear, but not the indicators,
So I think I will live with the possible indicator issue as I have spent all year on various maintenance and improvements and thought I had finished the winter projects and now ready to start driving, she did start up straight away on the key so I think it’s time to tax and drive (only for shopping trips obviously).
Thanks for all your help, I might be back in the winter, possibly enquiring about fuseboard relocation as I really dislike it as it is