Tyres- A Warning!
Discussion
Hi all,
I’m sure I’m preaching to the converted, but by way of a reminder, I just thought I’d share with you all a near disaster moment I had a couple of months ago.
Basically, after hitting the loud pedal in a fast left hand bend (as I had done numerous times beforehand), the road was dry but rear stepped out violently, and just as I corrected it, the front gripped and oversteer became understeer!
Praise God, the road was wide enough, and no damage or other road users were involved.
I thought hard as to why it had done this when I regularly hit the gas at this point in the bend.
I initially thought it was a combination of road salt (it was April), and lack of fuel in the tank, making grip an issue.
Then I looked at the tyres. I replaced 3 when I bought the car 6 years ago, but only because the sidewalls were cracking, there was still plenty of tread left.
But the OSR, I left - big mistake!
After the ‘moment’ I had I noticed that OSR tyre was 19 years old!
Given that many Chims probably don’t do many miles, the tread often looks ok, but age deteriorated rubber makes it perform more like plastic.
Looking further into age related tyre degradation, it’s interesting to note that the death of Paul Walker (Fast & Furious), was largely attributed to the age of the tyres on the Porsche he was a passenger in.
Porsche recommend that tyres are replaced every 4 years, but the ones on that car were 9 years old - still half the age of that tyre on my Chim!
Stay safe guys!
I’m sure I’m preaching to the converted, but by way of a reminder, I just thought I’d share with you all a near disaster moment I had a couple of months ago.
Basically, after hitting the loud pedal in a fast left hand bend (as I had done numerous times beforehand), the road was dry but rear stepped out violently, and just as I corrected it, the front gripped and oversteer became understeer!
Praise God, the road was wide enough, and no damage or other road users were involved.
I thought hard as to why it had done this when I regularly hit the gas at this point in the bend.
I initially thought it was a combination of road salt (it was April), and lack of fuel in the tank, making grip an issue.
Then I looked at the tyres. I replaced 3 when I bought the car 6 years ago, but only because the sidewalls were cracking, there was still plenty of tread left.
But the OSR, I left - big mistake!
After the ‘moment’ I had I noticed that OSR tyre was 19 years old!
Given that many Chims probably don’t do many miles, the tread often looks ok, but age deteriorated rubber makes it perform more like plastic.
Looking further into age related tyre degradation, it’s interesting to note that the death of Paul Walker (Fast & Furious), was largely attributed to the age of the tyres on the Porsche he was a passenger in.
Porsche recommend that tyres are replaced every 4 years, but the ones on that car were 9 years old - still half the age of that tyre on my Chim!
Stay safe guys!
I have to agree with classichimi,
It is never sensible to replace an odd number of tyres on something with 4 wheels, especially with 250 bhp/ton and similar torque and rear wheel drive. If you replaced 3 then one of the axles (the rear in this case) had a mismatch of tyres either side.
It is good advice I really do hope that everyone else here either listens or is already 'in the know'.
Glad you lived and learned.
It is never sensible to replace an odd number of tyres on something with 4 wheels, especially with 250 bhp/ton and similar torque and rear wheel drive. If you replaced 3 then one of the axles (the rear in this case) had a mismatch of tyres either side.
It is good advice I really do hope that everyone else here either listens or is already 'in the know'.
Glad you lived and learned.
Thanks for taking the time to post about your slide.
You are right, there are probably quite a few new owners who may not know the age of their tyres and they do degrade and harden with time, making for hairy moments.
I have just replaced all four of mine today with Yokohama’s. I asked the fitter what pressure he had inflated them to and he told me he had put 32 in the front and 33 in the back, which is what he told me he usually does as standard!
I asked him to change that to 23 in the front and 25 in the rear, which he did. I even watched him deflate them.
So, I was looking forward to improved grip with my new tyres and took the car out on a run, only to find a rock hard ride and skittish cornering. I did my research about the Yokohama’s before I bought them and wondered if I had made the right choice after this run. I realised the tyres wouldn’t have been at their best until the release agent had worn off but this was just different level crappiness!
When I got home I thought I had better confirm the pressures. They were reading 29 at the front and 31 at the back! Once I deflated them to 23/25, it was like a different car again. Sure footed and with a much more comfortable ride.
I can only assume the fitters gauge was way out Either that or he couldn’t do the conversion from whatever scale he was using.
Moral of the story - don’t blindly trust tyre fitters and don’t over inflate your tyres if you want the best from these cars.
You are right, there are probably quite a few new owners who may not know the age of their tyres and they do degrade and harden with time, making for hairy moments.
I have just replaced all four of mine today with Yokohama’s. I asked the fitter what pressure he had inflated them to and he told me he had put 32 in the front and 33 in the back, which is what he told me he usually does as standard!
I asked him to change that to 23 in the front and 25 in the rear, which he did. I even watched him deflate them.
So, I was looking forward to improved grip with my new tyres and took the car out on a run, only to find a rock hard ride and skittish cornering. I did my research about the Yokohama’s before I bought them and wondered if I had made the right choice after this run. I realised the tyres wouldn’t have been at their best until the release agent had worn off but this was just different level crappiness!
When I got home I thought I had better confirm the pressures. They were reading 29 at the front and 31 at the back! Once I deflated them to 23/25, it was like a different car again. Sure footed and with a much more comfortable ride.
I can only assume the fitters gauge was way out Either that or he couldn’t do the conversion from whatever scale he was using.
Moral of the story - don’t blindly trust tyre fitters and don’t over inflate your tyres if you want the best from these cars.
Alexander just check those pressures again once cold.
The extra pressure could be because the new tyres are starting to heat up. They might be a tad low cold.
What very few people do is take notice of how much pressures increase as tyres warm through.
They can start at 22/24 and end up 25/27 very quickly when pushing on.
The extra pressure could be because the new tyres are starting to heat up. They might be a tad low cold.
What very few people do is take notice of how much pressures increase as tyres warm through.
They can start at 22/24 and end up 25/27 very quickly when pushing on.
AlexanderV8 said:
Thanks for taking the time to post about your slide.
You are right, there are probably quite a few new owners who may not know the age of their tyres and they do degrade and harden with time, making for hairy moments.
I have just replaced all four of mine today with Yokohama’s. I asked the fitter what pressure he had inflated them to and he told me he had put 32 in the front and 33 in the back, which is what he told me he usually does as standard!
I asked him to change that to 23 in the front and 25 in the rear, which he did. I even watched him deflate them.
So, I was looking forward to improved grip with my new tyres and took the car out on a run, only to find a rock hard ride and skittish cornering. I did my research about the Yokohama’s before I bought them and wondered if I had made the right choice after this run. I realised the tyres wouldn’t have been at their best until the release agent had worn off but this was just different level crappiness!
When I got home I thought I had better confirm the pressures. They were reading 29 at the front and 31 at the back! Once I deflated them to 23/25, it was like a different car again. Sure footed and with a much more comfortable ride.
I can only assume the fitters gauge was way out Either that or he couldn’t do the conversion from whatever scale he was using.
Moral of the story - don’t blindly trust tyre fitters and don’t over inflate your tyres if you want the best from these cars.
What Yokohama’s did you fit - I was looking at getting the Advan Fleva.You are right, there are probably quite a few new owners who may not know the age of their tyres and they do degrade and harden with time, making for hairy moments.
I have just replaced all four of mine today with Yokohama’s. I asked the fitter what pressure he had inflated them to and he told me he had put 32 in the front and 33 in the back, which is what he told me he usually does as standard!
I asked him to change that to 23 in the front and 25 in the rear, which he did. I even watched him deflate them.
So, I was looking forward to improved grip with my new tyres and took the car out on a run, only to find a rock hard ride and skittish cornering. I did my research about the Yokohama’s before I bought them and wondered if I had made the right choice after this run. I realised the tyres wouldn’t have been at their best until the release agent had worn off but this was just different level crappiness!
When I got home I thought I had better confirm the pressures. They were reading 29 at the front and 31 at the back! Once I deflated them to 23/25, it was like a different car again. Sure footed and with a much more comfortable ride.
I can only assume the fitters gauge was way out Either that or he couldn’t do the conversion from whatever scale he was using.
Moral of the story - don’t blindly trust tyre fitters and don’t over inflate your tyres if you want the best from these cars.
Classic Chim said:
Alexander just check those pressures again once cold.
The extra pressure could be because the new tyres are starting to heat up. They might be a tad low cold.
What very few people do is take notice of how much pressures increase as tyres warm through.
They can start at 22/24 and end up 25/27 very quickly when pushing on.
Yes, thank you ClassicChim - good advice. I intend to keep an eye on them for a while. A 6 psi increase seems a bit much though, I would have thought. Probably a bit of both heating up and gauge discrepancies.The extra pressure could be because the new tyres are starting to heat up. They might be a tad low cold.
What very few people do is take notice of how much pressures increase as tyres warm through.
They can start at 22/24 and end up 25/27 very quickly when pushing on.
At least these cars let us know what they like and are quick to tell us!
Classic Chim said:
The only thing shocking here is you changed 3 tyres! That’s not good practice on a sportscar regardless of tread depth. 19 years old. Find a decent mechanic to advise you from now on, it might save your life or someone else’s.
Of course, I know that now, but that’s the point of my message.To warn others who may not.
It’s very surprising that many people don’t, and we know what people say about assumptions.
Especially, as tyre age is not an MOT critical item on passenger cars, when it really should be.
scottliv said:
What Yokohama’s did you fit - I was looking at getting the Advan Fleva.
Yes Scott, Advan Fleva V701 at the front and Advan Sport 105 at the rear.I still have 15" fronts and 16" rears. I wanted W rated at the back but could only get V for the 15".
Told my insurer and they were OK with it.
I wanted the 103's for the rears but they only seemed to come in run flats my size.
Steve_D said:
As said old tyres on TVRs is quite common so is actually recorded on our service sheet so we can highlight this with the customer.
Steve
That’s the proof of a responsible outfit you have there, Steve.Steve
In my case, and with the benefit of hindsight, I’m surprised that my tyre fitter supplier didn’t recommend that I changed all four at the time, especially as they’d make more money (for quite genuine reasons), if I bought the full set.
Not least because they were all 13 years old (and well past their prime) even then.
AlexanderV8 said:
scottliv said:
What Yokohama’s did you fit - I was looking at getting the Advan Fleva.
Yes Scott, Advan Fleva V701 at the front and Advan Sport 105 at the rear.I still have 15" fronts and 16" rears. I wanted W rated at the back but could only get V for the 15".
Told my insurer and they were OK with it.
I wanted the 103's for the rears but they only seemed to come in run flats my size.
scottliv said:
That is exactly what I was after. Fleva on front and 105 rear as I also have 15/16 wheels.
Great timing for these posts. My Griff 500 ran T1Rs for years but after 6 years (and low rears) it was time for a change. I've fitted the much-lauded Rainsport 5s and really dislike them so far as they seem so soft in the side wall and imprecise in all regards. They've done a few hundred miles and several heat cycles and I've tried different pressures but so far I think they're coming back off already!I used to run 205/55R15 and 245/45/16 but now have a 225/50R16 on the rear. Toyo does the TR1 in a 225/50R15 and 245/45/R16 that I'm tempted by but just came across the Yokohama option. What I don't understand is why the mix of models? What sizes are you guys running as I see that the Fleva comes in the same sizes as the Rainsports and could fit front and back.
I don't suppose anyone has any TR1 vs Yokohama experience with the TR1s being quite new?
Obviously, you can’t test drive tyres and change your mind if you’re not happy. So it makes sharing experiences like this very useful.
With this in mind, as I needed to replace my ancient Bridgestones, I read some reviews on tyres used on rear drive sports cars.
This is when I discovered Goodyear’s Efficient Grip Performance tyres.
They really outperformed the usual suspects like the Rainsports.
So, this is what I went for, and I’m very pleased with them.
With this in mind, as I needed to replace my ancient Bridgestones, I read some reviews on tyres used on rear drive sports cars.
This is when I discovered Goodyear’s Efficient Grip Performance tyres.
They really outperformed the usual suspects like the Rainsports.
So, this is what I went for, and I’m very pleased with them.
Griffit said:
scottliv said:
That is exactly what I was after. Fleva on front and 105 rear as I also have 15/16 wheels.
Great timing for these posts. My Griff 500 ran T1Rs for years but after 6 years (and low rears) it was time for a change. I've fitted the much-lauded Rainsport 5s and really dislike them so far as they seem so soft in the side wall and imprecise in all regards. They've done a few hundred miles and several heat cycles and I've tried different pressures but so far I think they're coming back off already!I used to run 205/55R15 and 245/45/16 but now have a 225/50R16 on the rear. Toyo does the TR1 in a 225/50R15 and 245/45/R16 that I'm tempted by but just came across the Yokohama option. What I don't understand is why the mix of models? What sizes are you guys running as I see that the Fleva comes in the same sizes as the Rainsports and could fit front and back.
I don't suppose anyone has any TR1 vs Yokohama experience with the TR1s being quite new?
I really liked those tyres, so had to search for replacements as they are no longer available. This is when I came across limitations in choice, especially for the 15" fronts.
To avoid potential insurance claim problems, I searched for Z rated tyres in the original TVR sizes (for my car!) but, apart from an obscure make for the fronts, came up against a wall. I had heard good things about Yokohama, so looked at their offerings. They don't do a Z rated but the Advan Sport 105 comes in W in the MO tyre (Mercedes Original equipment).
My sizes are 205/55 R15 fronts and 225/50 R16 rear.
The 105 wasn't available for 15" rims though, so I looked at the Advan Fleva V701, which was. These are only V rated though, so I didn't want them for the rears where presumably most of the stresses are.
Both tyres are rated for performance cars though, so I contacted my insurers about the changes from Z rating. Their initial response was that any change needs to meet the car manufacturers original specification.
I told them about the lack of Z rated tyres for 15" rims and my proposals with the V fronts and W rears, and, after they talked with their claims department and maybe underwriters, agreed that I could go ahead as they could be considered 'the next best thing'.
They also told me any change to wheel and tyre size from original equipment should also be notified.
So, I decided to keep the original sizes and opted for the Fleva and 105 combination.
I like the way the car looks and sits with the smaller fronts anyway, so didn't want to change wheels.
I would have loved the Yokohama Ad08, semi slick road going tyre all round but these are V rated and meant changing front tyre size too. I also fancied the Advan Sport 103 over the 105, but that only came in run flat, which I really didn't want.
I am happy with my choice so far but it is early days and I haven't thrashed them too much yet.
Maybe I'll get shot down over this but I don't see the mix of tyre models front and rear as too much of an issue in reality and I haven't noticed any detrimental effects yet!
You’ve raised an interesting point there AlexanderV8 - speed rating- and we know some insurance companies can sometimes use spurious reasons to avoid claims.
It maybe that some underwriters have not kept pace with tyre speed ratings (if you pardon the pun).
The original Z rating was basically listed for tyres that were capable of withstanding speeds of in excess of 149mph (somewhat ambiguous), but given a fair wind even a Chim 400 should get near.
Whereas, W rating is more common these days, and is rated for speeds up to 186mph - enough even for the best Chim 500
It maybe that some underwriters have not kept pace with tyre speed ratings (if you pardon the pun).
The original Z rating was basically listed for tyres that were capable of withstanding speeds of in excess of 149mph (somewhat ambiguous), but given a fair wind even a Chim 400 should get near.
Whereas, W rating is more common these days, and is rated for speeds up to 186mph - enough even for the best Chim 500
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