Track day, loss of oil pressure!
Discussion
Scenario;
Saturday, track day, nothing unusual apart fot using triple 8's for the first time.
Had a stonking day, the car was unstoppable!
On the last session I glanced at the oil pressure gauge after exiting a sharp bend and clocked "zero" but oil pressure light remained off!
Immediately reduced revs to idle and pressure returned, (car out of bend now).
Keeping an eye on the gauge and driving hard, pressure is being lost on the sharp fast bends after severe braking where severe G forces are at work.
This never happened with the T1R's, only with the incredible triple 8's, possibly made worse,(better grip), by having 8" and 10" rims.
It is hard to describe the grip obtained with this set up.
According to my passenger, a griff and porker owner, he could not believe it's, (the chim's), braking and cornering ability.
If I back off a bit, it doesn't occur.
Engine is a 4.6 serpentine with the sump baffles.
I am running Mobil One Motor sport oil, level is correct.
Surely the engine should take this treatment, I know it was never designed for these sort of G forces, what is my next move, (don't say dry sump!).
Peter.
Saturday, track day, nothing unusual apart fot using triple 8's for the first time.
Had a stonking day, the car was unstoppable!
On the last session I glanced at the oil pressure gauge after exiting a sharp bend and clocked "zero" but oil pressure light remained off!
Immediately reduced revs to idle and pressure returned, (car out of bend now).
Keeping an eye on the gauge and driving hard, pressure is being lost on the sharp fast bends after severe braking where severe G forces are at work.
This never happened with the T1R's, only with the incredible triple 8's, possibly made worse,(better grip), by having 8" and 10" rims.
It is hard to describe the grip obtained with this set up.
According to my passenger, a griff and porker owner, he could not believe it's, (the chim's), braking and cornering ability.
If I back off a bit, it doesn't occur.
Engine is a 4.6 serpentine with the sump baffles.
I am running Mobil One Motor sport oil, level is correct.
Surely the engine should take this treatment, I know it was never designed for these sort of G forces, what is my next move, (don't say dry sump!).
Peter.
Yep classic oil surge issue.
Sometimes topping the oil up to the max line on track days can stop it. If not then get a baffle plate fitted to the sump pan, this will prevent oil travelling up the side of the case on long hard cornering so the pump pick up stays submerged.
E.T.A.
Andy, did you still have the issue with a baffled sump?
Sometimes topping the oil up to the max line on track days can stop it. If not then get a baffle plate fitted to the sump pan, this will prevent oil travelling up the side of the case on long hard cornering so the pump pick up stays submerged.
E.T.A.
Andy, did you still have the issue with a baffled sump?
Edited by Bluebottle on Monday 6th July 09:44
I had to lift...no oil left.no need for a dry sump, a well designed wet sump will fix the issues you've been having.
Main problem is the rover pickup is ruddy enormous so it only has to be uncovered by a small amount and you're drawing air.
Easiest fix is to surround the pickup in a column of oil.
You weld a piece of perforated tube into the sump so that the tube passes over the head of teh pickup and gives you an oil column above the pickup at all times the perforations will of course leak oil in and out but it buys you time during which the corner and g loading is past.
Ensure that there are gaps at the bottom of the tube to get all the oil out come drain and refill time but make these small ( sub 3mm)
Main problem is the rover pickup is ruddy enormous so it only has to be uncovered by a small amount and you're drawing air.
Easiest fix is to surround the pickup in a column of oil.
You weld a piece of perforated tube into the sump so that the tube passes over the head of teh pickup and gives you an oil column above the pickup at all times the perforations will of course leak oil in and out but it buys you time during which the corner and g loading is past.
Ensure that there are gaps at the bottom of the tube to get all the oil out come drain and refill time but make these small ( sub 3mm)
haircutmike said:
My serp engine has the standard baffles.
If I need to dry sump the engine, (which seems a bit extreme but plausable), what sort of costs am I looking at.
I assume it is a diy fitment?
I suppose the cheapest answer is to refit the T1R's, ha, ha.
Peter.
The stock sump pan is not baffled. Yours may have been modded post production, but if you look at the likes of John Eales or V8D theirs have a modified pan to increase volume along with baffle plate that the oil pick up passes through and in the case of J.E. a windage plate as well.If I need to dry sump the engine, (which seems a bit extreme but plausable), what sort of costs am I looking at.
I assume it is a diy fitment?
I suppose the cheapest answer is to refit the T1R's, ha, ha.
Peter.
http://www.rover-v8.com/jeales/web.nsf/pages/used
Guillotine said:
mine was a 4x gated (F/B/L/R) sump with scraper plate.
Still no good...
They're just tooo fast now
Damnit! like i havent spent enough on it already...Grrr Still no good...
They're just tooo fast now
Mind you I've not had the problem recently but then again I'm having too much fun power drifting around Combe at the moment...which isn't exactly the quick way round, but is great fun
Edited by Bluebottle on Monday 6th July 21:14
Hi All,
Sorry to barge in, long term Porsche forum user, just got hold of a Chim 450 - know four fifths of bugger all about them. Just been for a hoon; fairly spirited around a large open roundabout 2nd gear (1 lap then off on an A road) when I went to third I got a loud tappet type noise.....
Flicked it out of gear, idled - pressure fine, noise subsided after 10 seconds or so. Stopped at the fuel station, checked levels - 1/2 way up on oil - topped to max to be sure. All sounds okay now, is this a common occurrence??
I was trying hard and enjoying myself, bit shocked to start with though.......
Any advice??
Sorry to barge in, long term Porsche forum user, just got hold of a Chim 450 - know four fifths of bugger all about them. Just been for a hoon; fairly spirited around a large open roundabout 2nd gear (1 lap then off on an A road) when I went to third I got a loud tappet type noise.....
Flicked it out of gear, idled - pressure fine, noise subsided after 10 seconds or so. Stopped at the fuel station, checked levels - 1/2 way up on oil - topped to max to be sure. All sounds okay now, is this a common occurrence??
I was trying hard and enjoying myself, bit shocked to start with though.......
Any advice??
Hi Mr Pope.
Not usual!
It has been said for track days you should keep your oil level 10mm ish above max to allow for surge (which I didn't!).
Possibly spirited driving could replicate this at a lower oil level.
For road use I would keep well topped up.
I have fitted my cooler and baffled sump, on the road today.
I will try these mods out next Friday as I have an airfield day booked up.
I will post to let you know if successful.
Peter.
Not usual!
It has been said for track days you should keep your oil level 10mm ish above max to allow for surge (which I didn't!).
Possibly spirited driving could replicate this at a lower oil level.
For road use I would keep well topped up.
I have fitted my cooler and baffled sump, on the road today.
I will try these mods out next Friday as I have an airfield day booked up.
I will post to let you know if successful.
Peter.
Bluebottle said:
haircutmike said:
My serp engine has the standard baffles.
If I need to dry sump the engine, (which seems a bit extreme but plausable), what sort of costs am I looking at.
I assume it is a diy fitment?
I suppose the cheapest answer is to refit the T1R's, ha, ha.
Peter.
The stock sump pan is not baffled. Yours may have been modded post production, but if you look at the likes of John Eales or V8D theirs have a modified pan to increase volume along with baffle plate that the oil pick up passes through and in the case of J.E. a windage plate as well.If I need to dry sump the engine, (which seems a bit extreme but plausable), what sort of costs am I looking at.
I assume it is a diy fitment?
I suppose the cheapest answer is to refit the T1R's, ha, ha.
Peter.
http://www.rover-v8.com/jeales/web.nsf/pages/used
Is this what the standard sump looks like, or is this "roof" perciliar to a baffled sump..?
My sump has been changed on my car, and it looks identical to the one in the photo - so do I have a standard sump, or has the previous owner fitted a baffled one..?
cheers,
Dom
Hi Dom.
If you have a later engine then you should have the sump with the welded plate with the centre square cut out as mine.
What we did to improve matters is fit a baffle just in front of the pick up so less oil travels forward under heavy braking.
Cut and welded the top plate so it is dished towards the cut out on both sides.
Welded up the 2 holes at the rear of the flat plate.
Now all oil is directed to the square hole and pick up!
New cooler fitted and had a short test drive, all OK.
Proof of, next Friday!
Peter.
If you have a later engine then you should have the sump with the welded plate with the centre square cut out as mine.
What we did to improve matters is fit a baffle just in front of the pick up so less oil travels forward under heavy braking.
Cut and welded the top plate so it is dished towards the cut out on both sides.
Welded up the 2 holes at the rear of the flat plate.
Now all oil is directed to the square hole and pick up!
New cooler fitted and had a short test drive, all OK.
Proof of, next Friday!
Peter.
haircutmike said:
Hi Dom.
What we did to improve matters is fit a baffle just in front of the pick up so less oil travels forward under heavy braking.
Cut and welded the top plate so it is dished towards the cut out on both sides.
Welded up the 2 holes at the rear of the flat plate.
Now all oil is directed to the square hole and pick up!
Proof of, next Friday!
Peter.
Did your modified horizontal baffle solve the surge problems fully?What we did to improve matters is fit a baffle just in front of the pick up so less oil travels forward under heavy braking.
Cut and welded the top plate so it is dished towards the cut out on both sides.
Welded up the 2 holes at the rear of the flat plate.
Now all oil is directed to the square hole and pick up!
Proof of, next Friday!
Peter.
A number of years after this thread some of us discovered extended baffled sumps from Mulberry Fabrications
https://www.mulfab.co.uk/product-category/oil-tank...
.
My sump now takes 9 litres of oil, and yet the bigger sump required no modifications to anything else.
https://www.mulfab.co.uk/product-category/oil-tank...
.
My sump now takes 9 litres of oil, and yet the bigger sump required no modifications to anything else.
QBee said:
A number of years after this thread some of us discovered extended baffled sumps from Mulberry Fabrications
https://www.mulfab.co.uk/product-category/oil-tank...
.
My sump now takes 9 litres of oil, and yet the bigger sump required no modifications to anything else.
Yes and my car proudly sports the standard version as per the company above. https://www.mulfab.co.uk/product-category/oil-tank...
.
My sump now takes 9 litres of oil, and yet the bigger sump required no modifications to anything else.
Really nice job and offers another layer of protection against oil starvation if I happen to go round roundabouts a lot
As it seems highly unlikely I’ll be going round race tracks in the near future. A very worthwhile investment I felt at the time and still do as I might park on a steep hill some day
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