Bilstein vs Protech
Discussion
Decided to fit new shocks all round when I get front wishbones etc replaced. I was expecting to go for Bilsteins on the back of positive reviews recently but it's been suggested that the substantially cheaper Protechs are a good bet. Reviews from a few years ago seem positive - thoughts? Any views on how long the Protechs are lasting? Nb - for general road use.
Cheers
Andrew
Cheers
Andrew
I don't know about the single adjuster Protech shocks as I have the twin adjust set.
For longevity Bilsteins.
Most these after market shocks employ rose joints which will grind after awhile unless you use grease to protect then, which in turn attracts more grit,,
If your not into adjusting the damper settings (trackdays) I'd personally go for Bilsteins as they will be a long term solution.
The Protechs work well though,,, or mine do!
I've had mine about 18 months and I've had to remove the fronts and free off rose joints which were very tight, but then I'm known to drive through winter so not helping.
For longevity Bilsteins.
Most these after market shocks employ rose joints which will grind after awhile unless you use grease to protect then, which in turn attracts more grit,,
If your not into adjusting the damper settings (trackdays) I'd personally go for Bilsteins as they will be a long term solution.
The Protechs work well though,,, or mine do!
I've had mine about 18 months and I've had to remove the fronts and free off rose joints which were very tight, but then I'm known to drive through winter so not helping.
I only have experience of Gaz Gold Pros & Bilsteins so can't really comment on Protechs, but there really isn't a massive difference between the price or the fundamental design of GGPs and the Protechs so I think its fair to say there won't be a huge difference in the way they behave.
I'd take a close look the each of the three companies, their size, their reputation and their R&D budgets, Gaz & Protech are small engineering operations who build track day suspension for club racers on a budget, while Bilstein are a huge German organisation and the OEM go-to choice for many of the big name car makers.
The difference really is night and day, if I was building a track only hack on a budget then maybe I'd fit Gaz suspension (or the like), but for anyone using their Chimaera on the road and enjoying the occasional track day you just can't beat the quality compliant ride of a set of Bilsteins.
Rubber bushes aren't sexy like rose joints but there's a reason every manufacturer uses them, even makers of high performance road cars shy away from rose joints because in everything other than the most extreme 10/10ths track cornering situation rubber bushes will be infinitely better in every respect.
The Chimaera is a fast touring classic sports car that if set up correctly can offer excellent handling, it really doesn't need rose joints and being a separate body/chassis design anything you can do to eliminate noise harshness and vibration is only a good thing as the car by design already suffers a lack of refinement when compared with a monocoque vehicle.
My advice is don't allow yourself to be seduced (as I was) by all the adjustablity and racy looks of the usual suspects discussed above unless you spend at least 90% of your time on the track, spend your money on the high quality German Bilstiens instead.
The reality is fitted with Bilsteins your Chimaera will a much more pleasant car to drive in the real world, and if my experience is anything to go by it'll actually be much much faster on the road because you'll no longer be backing off due to the car banging, crashing and skipping over every imperfection in the road surface.
It seems odd to think of a car with a more compliant ride as being faster than one that's super firmly sprung and damped, but Colin Chapman understood this a long time ago when he developed his superb Chapman strut, which he then went on to use extensively to win thousands races competing against far more powerful cars.
Have a look at the construction of the Lotus Elan and you'll start to understand the Chimaera (and all other TVRs) is basically a tube steel version of the folded steel spine used on the Elan, they are basically the same car... separate fibreglass body and all. Now compare how Lotus designed the suspension with how TVR did it, the front setup is the same but pay particular close attention to the rear struts on the Lotus especially the length of the damper tube & spring Colin used.
The uncomfortable truth is Elan was designed way back in the early sixties and will run rings around a 90's TVR even though it's a car with only half the power, 30 years and well over 100hp seperate the crs but the Elan is streets ahead in the handling stakes. The Lotus' long travel well sprung and damped rear suspension is the secret, aaand the lesson we should all take way is anything you can do to get some more compliance into the TVR's ride will result in a big improvement in cornering speeds... especially on the rutted and scared roads we must all suffer these days.
The Bilstiens not only have the advantage of rubber bushes, in my experience they also offer far more sophisticated damping than the track focused offerings, the result is I now don't even notice those killer bump and pot holes that had me skipping about on the GGPs.
One of the purposes of suspension is to deliver tolerable passenger comfort, but that's not really it's key function, what Colin Chapman understood was the real purpose of suspension is to ensure the tyre is always in contact with the road..... because that's how you generate grip.
Like all common sense engineering, it's blindingly obvious when you think about it
You cant really give you're Chimaera Elan rear suspension, but you can fit Bilsteins that in my experience are way more compliment and give better real world handing than my firm and rose jointed Gaz Gold Pros.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
I'd take a close look the each of the three companies, their size, their reputation and their R&D budgets, Gaz & Protech are small engineering operations who build track day suspension for club racers on a budget, while Bilstein are a huge German organisation and the OEM go-to choice for many of the big name car makers.
The difference really is night and day, if I was building a track only hack on a budget then maybe I'd fit Gaz suspension (or the like), but for anyone using their Chimaera on the road and enjoying the occasional track day you just can't beat the quality compliant ride of a set of Bilsteins.
Rubber bushes aren't sexy like rose joints but there's a reason every manufacturer uses them, even makers of high performance road cars shy away from rose joints because in everything other than the most extreme 10/10ths track cornering situation rubber bushes will be infinitely better in every respect.
The Chimaera is a fast touring classic sports car that if set up correctly can offer excellent handling, it really doesn't need rose joints and being a separate body/chassis design anything you can do to eliminate noise harshness and vibration is only a good thing as the car by design already suffers a lack of refinement when compared with a monocoque vehicle.
My advice is don't allow yourself to be seduced (as I was) by all the adjustablity and racy looks of the usual suspects discussed above unless you spend at least 90% of your time on the track, spend your money on the high quality German Bilstiens instead.
The reality is fitted with Bilsteins your Chimaera will a much more pleasant car to drive in the real world, and if my experience is anything to go by it'll actually be much much faster on the road because you'll no longer be backing off due to the car banging, crashing and skipping over every imperfection in the road surface.
It seems odd to think of a car with a more compliant ride as being faster than one that's super firmly sprung and damped, but Colin Chapman understood this a long time ago when he developed his superb Chapman strut, which he then went on to use extensively to win thousands races competing against far more powerful cars.
Have a look at the construction of the Lotus Elan and you'll start to understand the Chimaera (and all other TVRs) is basically a tube steel version of the folded steel spine used on the Elan, they are basically the same car... separate fibreglass body and all. Now compare how Lotus designed the suspension with how TVR did it, the front setup is the same but pay particular close attention to the rear struts on the Lotus especially the length of the damper tube & spring Colin used.
The uncomfortable truth is Elan was designed way back in the early sixties and will run rings around a 90's TVR even though it's a car with only half the power, 30 years and well over 100hp seperate the crs but the Elan is streets ahead in the handling stakes. The Lotus' long travel well sprung and damped rear suspension is the secret, aaand the lesson we should all take way is anything you can do to get some more compliance into the TVR's ride will result in a big improvement in cornering speeds... especially on the rutted and scared roads we must all suffer these days.
The Bilstiens not only have the advantage of rubber bushes, in my experience they also offer far more sophisticated damping than the track focused offerings, the result is I now don't even notice those killer bump and pot holes that had me skipping about on the GGPs.
One of the purposes of suspension is to deliver tolerable passenger comfort, but that's not really it's key function, what Colin Chapman understood was the real purpose of suspension is to ensure the tyre is always in contact with the road..... because that's how you generate grip.
Like all common sense engineering, it's blindingly obvious when you think about it
You cant really give you're Chimaera Elan rear suspension, but you can fit Bilsteins that in my experience are way more compliment and give better real world handing than my firm and rose jointed Gaz Gold Pros.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Edited by ChimpOnGas on Saturday 11th March 14:29
^^^ This
Nothing to add aside from I had orignal billies on mine, lasted 13 years no leaks no squeaks.... more than can be said for some of the aftermarket offerings which break or leak after less than 5 years or need a regular rebuilding. I have had the Mk4 Bilstiens fitted to mine for 4 years now, very pleased with them.
Nothing to add aside from I had orignal billies on mine, lasted 13 years no leaks no squeaks.... more than can be said for some of the aftermarket offerings which break or leak after less than 5 years or need a regular rebuilding. I have had the Mk4 Bilstiens fitted to mine for 4 years now, very pleased with them.
Thanks for the comments- I think you've confirmed my initial views. Only question now is standard or a Tuscan S set up. Suspect standard is right for me but again would appreciate views, particularly about the amount of comfort traded off and if they really make much difference on the handling front, or just sound cooler!
Cheers
Cheers
Matthew Poxon said:
I went for the standard setup, I would be tempted to go for the Tuscan S setup if given the choice again. Having said that I am very pleased with my setup. It is very compliant on road and also works well on track.
I still have my original Billies in the garage...............tempted to get them refurbished in Tuscan S spec if possible now 
The big advantage the new Bilsteins have is the big rubber mounting bushes at the top.
Any rubber bush is going to be better for a road car than rose joints. Rose joints offer zero tolerance over bumps especially short sharpe shocks in succession, they are having a damned hard time.
Couple that with the fact they are open to the eliments and not lubed in any real way, then are pinched using two bushes to trap them in the chassis/ Wbone,,, the whole set up isn't great for road use.
I'd say on track the taught nature of rose joints offers a more rigid car ( less flex) but the chassis still twists
The question is often asked( what do you use the car for) this is how I'd base my decision.
I once wanted the extras that come with height and damper adjustment shocks but then I thought I'd track the car more.
Now the car owes me so much I can't afford to crumple it so I'm less inclined so my focus has come more towards the cool fast grand tourer thing,, or basically a road car so when I can afford it Bilsteins for me.
ETA the Tuscan Mk 2 ones with updated dampers and springs
Any rubber bush is going to be better for a road car than rose joints. Rose joints offer zero tolerance over bumps especially short sharpe shocks in succession, they are having a damned hard time.
Couple that with the fact they are open to the eliments and not lubed in any real way, then are pinched using two bushes to trap them in the chassis/ Wbone,,, the whole set up isn't great for road use.
I'd say on track the taught nature of rose joints offers a more rigid car ( less flex) but the chassis still twists
The question is often asked( what do you use the car for) this is how I'd base my decision.
I once wanted the extras that come with height and damper adjustment shocks but then I thought I'd track the car more.
Now the car owes me so much I can't afford to crumple it so I'm less inclined so my focus has come more towards the cool fast grand tourer thing,, or basically a road car so when I can afford it Bilsteins for me.
ETA the Tuscan Mk 2 ones with updated dampers and springs
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