New engine needed 4.0 HC '94. Land/ Range rover engine swap?
Discussion
Sorry for the long post but I have screwed up.
Okay I completely screwed up but i didn't have much chance to inspect the car beforehand as it was the other side of Australia. I took a punt and it has "bit me in the rear". I should have got it inspected by a third party but the seller is a professional mechanic etc etc. I have had continual idle and rough running issues since I received it a few weeks ago. I couldn't get to the bottom of the problems and got it professionally looked at by the only Rover engine "expert" here in Perth, WA. He stated the engine has "had a hard life and no way is it only 60K miles - more like 160 to 200k miles." He ended up changing the dizzy rotor/ cap, 2nd hand MAF and then re routed a breather pipe to the front of the plenum to the atmosphere! He stated with the breather capped the dipstick would try to blow out! Now at least the car is driveable but still rough and I just want it running as it should.
I am contemplating a Land/ Range rover engine swap - are they compatible and would it be worth it? I have seriously contemplated an LS engine but the overall cost and hassle will be extortionate.
Can I buy a L/Range `Rover basic engine, swap the heads and use all of the sensors, wiring, ecu etc in situ and be good to go? This seems to be the easiest way back to getting this bloody car back to working as it should.
Okay I completely screwed up but i didn't have much chance to inspect the car beforehand as it was the other side of Australia. I took a punt and it has "bit me in the rear". I should have got it inspected by a third party but the seller is a professional mechanic etc etc. I have had continual idle and rough running issues since I received it a few weeks ago. I couldn't get to the bottom of the problems and got it professionally looked at by the only Rover engine "expert" here in Perth, WA. He stated the engine has "had a hard life and no way is it only 60K miles - more like 160 to 200k miles." He ended up changing the dizzy rotor/ cap, 2nd hand MAF and then re routed a breather pipe to the front of the plenum to the atmosphere! He stated with the breather capped the dipstick would try to blow out! Now at least the car is driveable but still rough and I just want it running as it should.
I am contemplating a Land/ Range rover engine swap - are they compatible and would it be worth it? I have seriously contemplated an LS engine but the overall cost and hassle will be extortionate.
Can I buy a L/Range `Rover basic engine, swap the heads and use all of the sensors, wiring, ecu etc in situ and be good to go? This seems to be the easiest way back to getting this bloody car back to working as it should.
Always difficult to advise on stuff like this from an armchair, some more info on the car would be good.
I’d question the suggestion of 200k mileage on a Tvr, not unheard of but very unusual.
The engines are easy to rebuild and parts are readily available if you go down that route and want to keep it original, but most people in your shoes if it was blowing out of its arse would find a 4.6 from a Rangie and put that in.
Problem is then it has a knock on effect of wanting to change the cam etc and maybe a light rebuild.
Not cheap especially if the engine isn’t popular in Aus.
I’d question the suggestion of 200k mileage on a Tvr, not unheard of but very unusual.
The engines are easy to rebuild and parts are readily available if you go down that route and want to keep it original, but most people in your shoes if it was blowing out of its arse would find a 4.6 from a Rangie and put that in.
Problem is then it has a knock on effect of wanting to change the cam etc and maybe a light rebuild.
Not cheap especially if the engine isn’t popular in Aus.
The reference to changing to the breather to atmosphere is wrong.
The breather system starts with the small 'mushroom' vent on the back of the left rocker cover. It only has a very small hole for the air to enter the rocker cover. Then a pipe runs across the front of the engine from the other rocker cover to then branch into the plenum and the throttle body.
If the engine is pulling hard, and perhaps, pressurizing the crankcase (your mechanics worry of the dipstick blowing out) then that pressure will go straight to the throttle body and be drawn into the engine.
if the engine is at idle the vacuum will be high in the plenum so the branch at the front of the plenum will be pulling a small amount of air all the way through the engine form the mushroom vent on the other side of the engine.
If the engine is venting to atmosphere then it may well be that the mixture is completely wrong
The breather system starts with the small 'mushroom' vent on the back of the left rocker cover. It only has a very small hole for the air to enter the rocker cover. Then a pipe runs across the front of the engine from the other rocker cover to then branch into the plenum and the throttle body.
If the engine is pulling hard, and perhaps, pressurizing the crankcase (your mechanics worry of the dipstick blowing out) then that pressure will go straight to the throttle body and be drawn into the engine.
if the engine is at idle the vacuum will be high in the plenum so the branch at the front of the plenum will be pulling a small amount of air all the way through the engine form the mushroom vent on the other side of the engine.
If the engine is venting to atmosphere then it may well be that the mixture is completely wrong
Thanks for the replies.
Check out the photo where the breather entrance has been closed off and the black hose/ pipe has been extended and goes out to the front.
The engine now idles at a steady 1k but is lumpy as (prior it was all over the place). It is rough on holding revs/ speed and as the car slows in gear. Accelerating is fine. Obviously it is not good but I was advised that the engine is on its last legs. The garage in question had 4 Morgans & a 390se wedge with the same rover engines so I think the mechanic knows what he is doing.
Check out the photo where the breather entrance has been closed off and the black hose/ pipe has been extended and goes out to the front.
The engine now idles at a steady 1k but is lumpy as (prior it was all over the place). It is rough on holding revs/ speed and as the car slows in gear. Accelerating is fine. Obviously it is not good but I was advised that the engine is on its last legs. The garage in question had 4 Morgans & a 390se wedge with the same rover engines so I think the mechanic knows what he is doing.
I don’t know if this is any help but I’ve got a 4l TVR engine going spare.
It’s done 53k and has been serviced 14 times with a new cam not that many miles ago.
I don’t know what it would cost to ship but at least you,would have a genuine TVR engine.
Let me know if you are interested and we’ll set up some sort of interweb chat call.
It’s done 53k and has been serviced 14 times with a new cam not that many miles ago.
I don’t know what it would cost to ship but at least you,would have a genuine TVR engine.
Let me know if you are interested and we’ll set up some sort of interweb chat call.
Boosted LS1 said:
The first thing I'd have done is a compression test of all cylinders.
This first off. in terms of the difference between the Range Rover and TVR 4 ltr, as with most things TVR nothing seems fixed. I've seen a 4 ltr TVR motor that was a bog standard Range Rover unit, with just a cam change, so it has stock heads that are not even ported. You could re create that easily enough with simply adding a fast road cam like an MC1 to a Range Rover engine. The TVR 14CUX ECU is chipped to allow for the increased RPM a fast road cams allows, so you would need to use the ECU you have now- The next question is do you have catalysts or not? I don't think they are a requirement in Oz? The ECU can be switched to run with or without catalysts by switching the fuel map, and if you dont need to run a catalyst the engine will run better in non catalyst mode. Its worth checking what is marked on your ECU chip to see if its a TVR one- it will have a label on it saying something like "4.0 cat" if its set to run the catalyst mode. The stock TVR catalyst chip needs to be replaced if you don't run catalysts as its an un modified Range Rover map on the non catalyst setting and wont fuel correctly for maximum power.
sapper said:
I don’t know if this is any help but I’ve got a 4l TVR engine going spare.
It’s done 53k and has been serviced 14 times with a new cam not that many miles ago.
I don’t know what it would cost to ship but at least you,would have a genuine TVR engine.
Let me know if you are interested and we’ll set up some sort of interweb chat call.
That is a great offer Sapper & I am sorely tempted - BUT - I'm not sure how this will possibly happen with the lockdown situation you are presently in!It’s done 53k and has been serviced 14 times with a new cam not that many miles ago.
I don’t know what it would cost to ship but at least you,would have a genuine TVR engine.
Let me know if you are interested and we’ll set up some sort of interweb chat call.
Please pm me what you are looking for it and I will attempt to get some quotes etc. We may
Thanks for the rest of the comments too. I have been constantly searching for a used Rangie engine as I can probably swap a few things over. The market for this engine is pretty small here in Aus. but I will keep searching as I would prefer to do a straight swap. My car still has the cats in place as far as I know.
I have also been swapping my breather pipe back to the original position and it does run smoother with a slight bump/ misfire scenario. However, the idle revs take ages to return to 1kish - 15/ 20 secs or so which is frustrating when sitting at lights just burning fuel and embarrassed etc! Unfortunately, I'm in the middle of a house move and cannot spend any time with the car so it will have to wait a bit longer.
Wolvesboy said:
............. However, the idle revs take ages to return to 1kish - 15/ 20 secs or so which is frustrating when sitting at lights just burning fuel and embarrassed etc! ................
The ECU controls the idle and will most likely be trying to achieve 900RPM. However, during overrun, say when you are slowing to a junction or a set of lights the ECU holds the revs up to around 1200 to prevent the engine stalling when you come to a stop. In a Range Rover the ECU reads the speed signal so it knows if you are moving or not. The TVR speed signal is not compatible with the ECU so TVR designed and fitted an interface box (lives behind dash) which just tells the ECU you're doing 35MPH or Zero. This box has been known to fail.To help diagnose both the issues you have now and the ones you (may/will) have in future you should get yourself a Rover Gauge lead and software. See the classified ads on here.
Steve
I went the Range Rover engine route when my previous engine expired.
It seemed like a cheap option to start with. as the top hat lined block cost £250, a used pair of heads was £50, a new Range Rover cam was £85 and I already had the other bits.
But the cost of rebuilding the engine took the bill up to around £2000.
I had a purpose in going Range Rover - My plan was to mildly turbocharge the engine, so I needed low compression, minimal valve overlap and let the turbo do the work. But it does prove that a TVR can happily run on a Range Rover engine.
I cannot comment about ECUs, mapping etc - but you already have some of the best TVR professional brains in the UK commenting on this thread
It seemed like a cheap option to start with. as the top hat lined block cost £250, a used pair of heads was £50, a new Range Rover cam was £85 and I already had the other bits.
But the cost of rebuilding the engine took the bill up to around £2000.
I had a purpose in going Range Rover - My plan was to mildly turbocharge the engine, so I needed low compression, minimal valve overlap and let the turbo do the work. But it does prove that a TVR can happily run on a Range Rover engine.
I cannot comment about ECUs, mapping etc - but you already have some of the best TVR professional brains in the UK commenting on this thread
sapper said:
I don’t know if this is any help but I’ve got a 4l TVR engine going spare.
It’s done 53k and has been serviced 14 times with a new cam not that many miles ago.
I don’t know what it would cost to ship but at least you,would have a genuine TVR engine.
Let me know if you are interested and we’ll set up some sort of interweb chat call.
Oooh I've got a Stag that this might fit into......It’s done 53k and has been serviced 14 times with a new cam not that many miles ago.
I don’t know what it would cost to ship but at least you,would have a genuine TVR engine.
Let me know if you are interested and we’ll set up some sort of interweb chat call.
Boosted LS1 said:
sapper said:
Has anybody got an idea of cost of shipping an engine to Australia, or can recommend a company please?
I've just exported an engine to the US cost £400 iirc. These people were the only people interested in doing it and they were good. Make sure your engine buyer organises everything as if things go wrong you'll be the one collecting charges.Roberta Garside - Customer Services
DDI: 01332 813265/ TEL: 01332 813260
MIES International Ltd, Unit C, Norman Court, Ivanhoe Business Park, Ashby-de-la-Zouch, LE65 2UZ.
www.miesinternational.com
Also, they'll want 'their' customer to be a business and not an individual.
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