Manual XJs - So Wrong or So Right?

[anonymous-user]

Hello there

I'm considering picking up a X300 or X308 XJ. After just a months of working at a Jaguar service centre I'm struggling to resist my life long temptation of one, and it just so happens that I need a car.

What I 'want' is a X308 XJR, but what I can afford in reality is a tatty x300 3.2 (x308 or 4.0 if I'm lucky) as my budget isn't great. I've driven both 3.2 and 4.0 variants of x308s but no XJ6s and certainly none with a manual gearbox, I'm curious to know what it is like?

It seems like a Marmite issue, some people think they are brilliant others think that "ruin" the jaguar experience.

I don't mind automatic gearboxes, but I do worry that neither a 3.2 or 4.0 will hold my gnat like attention span for longer than 5 minutes before I start looking at Japanese turbocharged fire spitting imports again, where the oddness and eccentricity of having a manual Jaguar will keep me interested.

What are manual XJ6s like?

For the record I really enjoyed my drive of the one and only manual S-Type. Made the car feel a lot more 'lively' but still just as refined. Can I expect a similar effect in a XJ?

[OneJag]

I think the question is mainly whether you can actually find a manual XJ for sale. Six listed on Autotrader now, three are not really manual (look at the interior pics), two claim to be manual but no pics to check. Oh, and you could buy the XJ220 which is very likely to be a manual

OneJag

[Jaguar steve]

Last manual option was on the X300. This gave you a 5 speed Getrag box instead of a 3 speed + overdrive ZF automatic. Sales were IIRC somthing like 95% auto and 5% manual - often in the cheapest base model Sports trim.

Direct comparison between the two gearboxes boxes in the X300 my thoughts are the manual alows you to access more performance and use all the torque of the AJ16 engine, but it's slightly less refined then the auto, especially at high RPM as there's no torque converter to absorb and cushion vibration.

The clutch action is heavy, the pedal is offset and the gearchange is not particurlarly pleasant to use in comparison with other boxes. The auto is a antique design that only engages top gear and locks the torque converter up at 50mph, which means you're driving round in an intermediate gears at speeds below this, which plays havoc with fuel consumption. At the same road speeds you can amble an manual X300 round in much higher gears/lower RPM than the auto will allow you to.

I'd have one - not because the manual is brilliant, but because the automatic is such old technology you'd have useful performance and better fuel consumption with the manual. Jaguar addressd the auto's failings with the introduction of the ZF 5 speed one in the X308. At the time it was considered to be so good Jaguar dropped the manual option alltogether.

[a8hex]

Jaguar steve said:

At the time it was considered to be so good Jaguar dropped the manual option alltogether.

Which is marketing speech for...
We couldn't shift the bloody manuals we made last time.
The dealer network have threatened us with bodily harm if we do it again.

The dealers hated the manuals. Sales were very low, but the problem came when they came back in as trade ins.
The market for nearly new manual XJ6's was approximately zero. But they were forced to buy back the ones they'd sold. They wouldn't touch them otherwise.

I think its only been as the cars have become classics that the manual has become wanted.

As to the autobox on the X300, the 4.0 & SC ones get a different box to the 3.2. The 3.2's is a dumb unit, but the 4s get a electronic one which was rather better if I remember rightly from back when I drove them new. The non electronic unit in the 3.2 is the least satisfactory aspect of the car, but I've never felt it was a really problem.

[Jaguar steve]

a8hex said:

Jaguar steve said:

At the time it was considered to be so good Jaguar dropped the manual option alltogether.

Which is marketing speech for...
We couldn't shift the bloody manuals we made last time.
The dealer network have threatened us with bodily harm if we do it again.

The dealers hated the manuals. Sales were very low, but the problem came when they came back in as trade ins.
The market for nearly new manual XJ6's was approximately zero. But they were forced to buy back the ones they'd sold. They wouldn't touch them otherwise.

I think its only been as the cars have become classics that the manual has become wanted.

As to the autobox on the X300, the 4.0 & SC ones get a different box to the 3.2. The 3.2's is a dumb unit, but the 4s get a electronic one which was rather better if I remember rightly from back when I drove them new. The non electronic unit in the 3.2 is the least satisfactory aspect of the car, but I've never felt it was a really problem.

This is indeed true. Manuals were pretty much all poverty spec 3.2s with cloth seats, IIRC no aircon and priced to compete with top of the range Rovers. That's not going to keep everybody happy on the secondhand market.

[thejpster]

Jaguar steve said:

Last manual option was on the X300. This gave you a 5 speed Getrag box instead of a 3 speed + overdrive ZF automatic. Sales were IIRC somthing like 95% auto and 5% manual - often in the cheapest base model Sports trim.

The base trim was 'XJ6' - 'Sport' was a step up, although I've seen both with manual boxes. The auto was actually a option you had to select on most models, but as you say, pretty much everyone did. I believe only the Sovereign and the Daimler Six were auto by default while the XJ12 and DD6 were auto only.

It's worth noting that the XJR and XJ12/DD6 have the GM 4L80E box, the N/A 4.0 has the ZF 4HP24E and the 3.2 has the ZF 4HP22. I'm happy enough with the ZF in my 3.2, plus the lack of transmission ECU greatly reduces the chances of being stranded due to spurious electrical issues. These boxes were around for a long time, being sold up until 2002 in the P38A Range Rover.

As an aside I've seen the last manual XJR ever built. Still only has 9000 odd miles on the clock.

[naki]

thejpster said:

As an aside I've seen the last manual XJR ever built. Still only has 9000 odd miles on the clock.

that will be Rob Jenners new toy then! was that at a show last year?

i agree with whats been said so far.
4.0 manual is the one to go for, IF you can find one. even if its povo spec, you can easily change the interior and stick some nice alloys on it. yes, its nice to have air con, but they often dont work now anyhow!

you might want to consider an XJ40, if you want to spread the even wider for a manual?
you may want to get an auto one in the mean time as you could be waiting forever for the right manual to com along?
then atleast you can get a taste of the world of jags and see if its all its racked up to be?

i have 3 manual xj40s (and a few autos too), and one auto that i plan to convert (already have the conversion parts).

here is my latest one

yummy!

[Hooli]

thejpster said:

The base trim was 'XJ6' - 'Sport' was a step up

I've got a sport, I can't think of much they could leave out to lower the spec. Was the only difference cloth seats?

[a8hex]

Hooli said:

thejpster said:

The base trim was 'XJ6' - 'Sport' was a step up

I've got a sport, I can't think of much they could leave out to lower the spec. Was the only difference cloth seats?

The brochures are online over on Jag Lovers.
The base car had:
steel wheels
no climate control (my 94 XJ6 Sport's climate control is massively better that B8's 2001 MB E320 with the optional full climate system)
manual steering column adjustment. (err, I think the Sport's is powered, but its probably been 15 years since I tried)

Jag Lover's 1990 brochures

[ewoudwo]

My advise? Save a bit more money and get yourself a well-maintained XJR between '98 and '02.
The auto box is very responsive with the sport button turned on. Don't foget, this car has about 535nm. Don't get me wrong, I would love to have a manual tranny in my XJR but the auto box just doesn't get boring. Ever.

[300bhp/ton]

279 said:

Hello there

I'm considering picking up a X300 or X308 XJ. After just a months of working at a Jaguar service centre I'm struggling to resist my life long temptation of one, and it just so happens that I need a car.

What I 'want' is a X308 XJR, but what I can afford in reality is a tatty x300 3.2 (x308 or 4.0 if I'm lucky) as my budget isn't great. I've driven both 3.2 and 4.0 variants of x308s but no XJ6s and certainly none with a manual gearbox, I'm curious to know what it is like?

It seems like a Marmite issue, some people think they are brilliant others think that "ruin" the jaguar experience.

I don't mind automatic gearboxes, but I do worry that neither a 3.2 or 4.0 will hold my gnat like attention span for longer than 5 minutes before I start looking at Japanese turbocharged fire spitting imports again, where the oddness and eccentricity of having a manual Jaguar will keep me interested.

What are manual XJ6s like?

For the record I really enjoyed my drive of the one and only manual S-Type. Made the car feel a lot more 'lively' but still just as refined. Can I expect a similar effect in a XJ?

I don't understand the not Jaguar bit. Weren't MK2's and the like available with a manual?

We had an XJ40 3.6 manual and it was brilliant. Felt like a sophisticated muscle car, proper Brit bruiser.

I would say don't expect a stupid fast car though, the 3.6's were 223hp and AJ6 4.0 225hp and the AJ16 4.0's 241bhp.

Good figures for the day, but will not be supercar quick. Having said that, all of these are good solid performers and aren't exactly what you'd call sluggish.


Back in the day Jag sales people would try and fob off potential punters that the then "new" 3.2 S6 went as well as the out going 3.6 - this was total and utter bks and a complete and utter fking made up lie. Just look at the HP figures.

On this basis I would say avoid any 3.2 Jag, be it x300 or XJ40.

I know you didn't mention XJ40 in your op, but they are worth considering too IMO. And remember an x300 is basically an XJ40 (even has the same doors! ).

Any 4.0 auto goes pretty well but a manual will make them more fun.

The only exception I would say is, if you could afford the fuel and can find a 6.0 XJ12 (XJ40 shape) then this would be the crop of the cream. LSD, sports suspension, better gearbox and one of the smoothest engines ever.

Edited by 300bhp/ton on Thursday 7th February 14:17

[V12 Migaloo]

I agree, I once had the pleasure of driving a MK II S=type (the modern one) a 2.5 with a manual box, I absolutely adored it!

[a8hex]

300bhp/ton said:

On this basis I would say avoid any 3.2 Jag, be it x300 or XJ40.

Can't speak for the XJ40, but the AJ16 3.2 in the X300 is a real peach of an engine. It might not have the torque of the 4, but its so smooth and feels so much torquier than the BM or MB rivals, it almost exactly matches a BM740 on the road, even though the German had a much more modern gearbox.

Don't write off the 3.2

[tortop45]

All depends on what engines up front,if youve got a v12 then its so right......

[dbdb]

a8hex said:

300bhp/ton said:

On this basis I would say avoid any 3.2 Jag, be it x300 or XJ40.

Can't speak for the XJ40, but the AJ16 3.2 in the X300 is a real peach of an engine. It might not have the torque of the 4, but its so smooth and feels so much torquier than the BM or MB rivals, it almost exactly matches a BM740 on the road, even though the German had a much more modern gearbox.

Don't write off the 3.2

The 3.2 litre engine in the XJ40 is a nice old thing - very smooth. In my experience, it is closer in performance to the 3.6 than many believe. It is slower, sure - but not by that much. I suspect the 4.09:1 diff ratio has a lot to do with this.

If you're after a performance car, then the 4 litre is probably the one to go for, though the 3.6 is a more aggressive engine with a sportier feel. If refinement is your thing, then the 3.2 is definately worth a look.

For me, with any old Jag, condition is the most important thing. I'd far rather have a base spec 3.2 in good condition than a rough six litre - but I would always intend to keep a car a long time and you may not plan to do that.

[dbdb]

naki said:

that will be Rob Jenners new toy then! was that at a show last year?

i agree with whats been said so far.
4.0 manual is the one to go for, IF you can find one. even if its povo spec, you can easily change the interior and stick some nice alloys on it. yes, its nice to have air con, but they often dont work now anyhow!

you might want to consider an XJ40, if you want to spread the even wider for a manual?
you may want to get an auto one in the mean time as you could be waiting forever for the right manual to com along?
then atleast you can get a taste of the world of jags and see if its all its racked up to be?

i have 3 manual xj40s (and a few autos too), and one auto that i plan to convert (already have the conversion parts).

here is my latest one

yummy!

Yummy is the word! Unique too, in this colour.

[dbdb]

300bhp/ton said:

I don't understand the not Jaguar bit. Weren't MK2's and the like available with a manual?

We had an XJ40 3.6 manual and it was brilliant. Felt like a sophisticated muscle car, proper Brit bruiser.

I would say don't expect a stupid fast car though, the 3.6's were 223hp and AJ6 4.0 225hp and the AJ16 4.0's 241bhp.

Good figures for the day, but will not be supercar quick. Having said that, all of these are good solid performers and aren't exactly what you'd call sluggish.


Back in the day Jag sales people would try and fob off potential punters that the then "new" 3.2 S6 went as well as the out going 3.6 - this was total and utter bks and a complete and utter fking made up lie. Just look at the HP figures.

On this basis I would say avoid any 3.2 Jag, be it x300 or XJ40.

I know you didn't mention XJ40 in your op, but they are worth considering too IMO. And remember an x300 is basically an XJ40 (even has the same doors! ).

Any 4.0 auto goes pretty well but a manual will make them more fun.

The only exception I would say is, if you could afford the fuel and can find a 6.0 XJ12 (XJ40 shape) then this would be the crop of the cream. LSD, sports suspension, better gearbox and one of the smoothest engines ever.

Edited by 300bhp/ton on Thursday 7th February 14:17

Jaguar salesmen did say that - I remember my father being told the 3.2 was virtually as quick as the 3.6 when I accompanied him on a test drive. He was trading in a 3.6. I wonder if it was an official Jaguar sales spiel?
My dad was keen on a 3.2 because he didn't like the electronically controlled gearbox of the 4 litre. He thought it might be unreliable. It was also cheaper, and fast enough.

The 3.2 is slower than the 3.6 - no surprise, it has less power. It isn't night-and-day slower like the 2.9 though. A slight performance gap, rather than a gulf.

[thejpster]

a8hex said:

Hooli said:

thejpster said:

The base trim was 'XJ6' - 'Sport' was a step up

I've got a sport, I can't think of much they could leave out to lower the spec. Was the only difference cloth seats?

The brochures are online over on Jag Lovers.
The base car had:

steel wheels
no climate control (my 94 XJ6 Sport's climate control is massively better that B8's 2001 MB E320 with the optional full climate system)
manual steering column adjustment. (err, I think the Sport's is powered, but its probably been 15 years since I tried)

Jag Lover's 1990 brochures

The XJ6 and Sovereign got 16x7" wheels and touring suspension while the XJ12 and Sport have sports suspension and 16x8" wheels and the XJR was harder still and had 17" wheels. Plus Classic-range cars got more chrome and Sports-range cars got more body coloured bits. Sports suspension changes the springs, shocks and ARB bushes and I think it also adds a rear ARB. The manual XJR also gets a revised rear subframe.

I'm a sucker for chrome and need to get a lot of crap in the back so I bought a Sovereign LWB with the sport option ticked at the factory.

[thejpster]

naki said:

thejpster said:

As an aside I've seen the last manual XJR ever built. Still only has 9000 odd miles on the clock.

that will be Rob Jenners new toy then! was that at a show last year?

In his garage, as it happens.

[jith]

This is a real manual Jag:-











Complete with overdrive and the most beautiful dash on any Jag.

In this era the manuals were so much better than the autos in many respects. In O/D top the gearing resulted in immensely better fuel consumption and, due to the lack of a torque convertor and 5 ratios instead of 3, the acceleration was significantly improved over the auto. The manual boxes were also bombproof and would only break if seriously abused.

J