X308 XJR Tensioners
Discussion
I recently purchased a X308 XJR from the local car auctions. Silly I know, but it felt like a good idea at the time. The car is a 1998 example and appears to be on the original nikasil lined engine (no tags on the block to say it has been changed). It recently ticked over to 102k and has a good few service stamps in the book.
I had a local(ish) specialist take a look over it a few days ago and they suggested that I have the secondary tensioners replaced as there is a slight ticking noise on startup and idle which they diagnosed as the secondary tensioners. I have been quoted just over £500 to have these done from them, this is just for the tensioners with no new chains. I rang another local specialist who quoted me £300 + vat for the same job but said that the secondary tensioners are unlikely to cure the ticking noise and reccomended I have had the full set of primary and secondary tensioners replaced along with chains etc at a cost of £1200.
Is it wise for me to attempt to change the secondary tensioners myself? I have some basic mechanical knowledge and it seems the required tools can be hired from the owners club. Also what is the going rate for having the secondary tensioners replaced? The price difference between both quotes is around £200 which seem strange.
I had a local(ish) specialist take a look over it a few days ago and they suggested that I have the secondary tensioners replaced as there is a slight ticking noise on startup and idle which they diagnosed as the secondary tensioners. I have been quoted just over £500 to have these done from them, this is just for the tensioners with no new chains. I rang another local specialist who quoted me £300 + vat for the same job but said that the secondary tensioners are unlikely to cure the ticking noise and reccomended I have had the full set of primary and secondary tensioners replaced along with chains etc at a cost of £1200.
Is it wise for me to attempt to change the secondary tensioners myself? I have some basic mechanical knowledge and it seems the required tools can be hired from the owners club. Also what is the going rate for having the secondary tensioners replaced? The price difference between both quotes is around £200 which seem strange.
Slack chains usually make a noise similar to a pushbike chain running on the chainguard at start up. A regular ticking or tapping noise may be a valve gap a bit wide, injector chatter, or some other cause.
First thing to do is check which secondary tensioners are fitted. Take the RH cam cover off (the LH one is a PITA to remove) and have a look. If the tensioner has either a red or cream plastic body then it ought to be changed for a metal bodied one anyway. These are cheap enough from British Car Parts or have a search on ebay - you'll need 4 new bolts too, the metal bodied tensioners are dimensionally different to the plastic ones.
If you go ahead with the change you'll need to drill through the lug securing the dipstick tube to the LH cover. It won't lift over the mounting stud on the cam cover and shoud be secured back with a coupe of washers either side of the drilled lug.
You can do the tensioner change either with the timing tools hired from the JEC or there's an alternative much quicker method using tie wraps to keep the chain on the exhaust cam sprocket and removing the exhaust cam itself to release the tension on the chain giving you just enough slack to change the tensioners. You'll need to remove and refit the cam with sympathy to avoid stressing it with the force of the valve springs and it's important to work clean and not mix up or reverse the cam bearing caps. I've not used this method yet but it looks fair enough to me. There's video on utube showing how to do this.
Whilst you've got the covers off have a carefull look at all the chains, slippers and primary tensioners. You're looking for any signs of damage, excessive wear, heavy groves or chunks missing from the guides and any high or shiny spots on the sprockets. The chains may not be bar tight but any excess slack is a cause for concern.
If the inside of the engine is bright and clean that suggests a good regular service history which should have preserved the timing gear, if it's filthy dirty with heavy tarry deposits then that suggests the oppposite.
Once you've satisfied yourself the rest of the gear is OK then fit new temnsioners and see if that cures the noise. If it does than happy days, if not then at least you've removed any doubt about the tensioners and had a chance to assess the rest of the timing gear too without spending too much cash.
First thing to do is check which secondary tensioners are fitted. Take the RH cam cover off (the LH one is a PITA to remove) and have a look. If the tensioner has either a red or cream plastic body then it ought to be changed for a metal bodied one anyway. These are cheap enough from British Car Parts or have a search on ebay - you'll need 4 new bolts too, the metal bodied tensioners are dimensionally different to the plastic ones.
If you go ahead with the change you'll need to drill through the lug securing the dipstick tube to the LH cover. It won't lift over the mounting stud on the cam cover and shoud be secured back with a coupe of washers either side of the drilled lug.
You can do the tensioner change either with the timing tools hired from the JEC or there's an alternative much quicker method using tie wraps to keep the chain on the exhaust cam sprocket and removing the exhaust cam itself to release the tension on the chain giving you just enough slack to change the tensioners. You'll need to remove and refit the cam with sympathy to avoid stressing it with the force of the valve springs and it's important to work clean and not mix up or reverse the cam bearing caps. I've not used this method yet but it looks fair enough to me. There's video on utube showing how to do this.
Whilst you've got the covers off have a carefull look at all the chains, slippers and primary tensioners. You're looking for any signs of damage, excessive wear, heavy groves or chunks missing from the guides and any high or shiny spots on the sprockets. The chains may not be bar tight but any excess slack is a cause for concern.
If the inside of the engine is bright and clean that suggests a good regular service history which should have preserved the timing gear, if it's filthy dirty with heavy tarry deposits then that suggests the oppposite.
Once you've satisfied yourself the rest of the gear is OK then fit new temnsioners and see if that cures the noise. If it does than happy days, if not then at least you've removed any doubt about the tensioners and had a chance to assess the rest of the timing gear too without spending too much cash.
Thanks for the in depth reply. The car has spent a week or so stood still at the auctions, and I'm guessing the short trips that cars take whilst being driven around the auction lot won't have helped. I have had a look at the youtube videos and a a few write ups but I fear I may be out of my depth on this one. Whilst I am happy to service my own cars this job looks a little more complex.
I'm surprised by the difference in quoted prices for what is affectively the same job. So far I have been quoted £360 from one indy, £432 from another and £518 from a third. I appreciate that a mechanic has various overheads and has to put food on the table but the price difference seems a tad strange considering it seems to be a common job for a Jaguar specialist. Its a pity that there doesn't seem to be any local enthusiasts who could do the job.
I'm surprised by the difference in quoted prices for what is affectively the same job. So far I have been quoted £360 from one indy, £432 from another and £518 from a third. I appreciate that a mechanic has various overheads and has to put food on the table but the price difference seems a tad strange considering it seems to be a common job for a Jaguar specialist. Its a pity that there doesn't seem to be any local enthusiasts who could do the job.
Doing the tensioner swap with the timing tools should take an experienced mechanic with a ramp no more than an hour and a half - maybe two as a maximum. That'll include fitting new gaskets too, which you don't have to do if the old ones are not brittle or damaged. I've done it in about three hours and that included coffee and fag breaks as well as spending time cleaning up the old gaskets.
The tie wrap method should be quicker. The most difficult bit is drilling or cutting the dipstick tube lug.
The tie wrap method should be quicker. The most difficult bit is drilling or cutting the dipstick tube lug.
Just a word of warning, my n/a 4.0 V8 (early nikasil engine) also had this ticking which was initially on startup but eventually was all the time at idle - hot or cold. It had the newer top tensioners already, and I was advised to have a full chain change and primary tensioners done.
2 of the lower tensioners were cracked so it was worth doing, with this and new chains it is utterly silent, but I'll be eating beans on toast for the rest of the year as I'm now too skint to buy food!
if you get away with just doing the secondaries then good luck - you may not.
2 of the lower tensioners were cracked so it was worth doing, with this and new chains it is utterly silent, but I'll be eating beans on toast for the rest of the year as I'm now too skint to buy food!
if you get away with just doing the secondaries then good luck - you may not.
cybertech said:
both of those prices seem high to me.
I used an independent specialist to change all the chains and tensioners on my 2001 XJR after the tensioners let go..... the total bill for all new timing gear plus the labour was £760 which was pretty reasonable.
I called another local(ish) Jag independent today who quoted £426 for the primary tensioners, thats is just the two tensioners plus labour with no new gaskets etc. Out of the 4 places I have called for quotes now, 3 are reccomended over on jagurforum.co.uk so I'm confused. Are northern Jag specialists pricier compared to the rest of the country?I used an independent specialist to change all the chains and tensioners on my 2001 XJR after the tensioners let go..... the total bill for all new timing gear plus the labour was £760 which was pretty reasonable.
giblet said:
cybertech said:
both of those prices seem high to me.
I used an independent specialist to change all the chains and tensioners on my 2001 XJR after the tensioners let go..... the total bill for all new timing gear plus the labour was £760 which was pretty reasonable.
I called another local(ish) Jag independent today who quoted £426 for the primary tensioners, thats is just the two tensioners plus labour with no new gaskets etc. Out of the 4 places I have called for quotes now, 3 are reccomended over on jagurforum.co.uk so I'm confused. Are northern Jag specialists pricier compared to the rest of the country?I used an independent specialist to change all the chains and tensioners on my 2001 XJR after the tensioners let go..... the total bill for all new timing gear plus the labour was £760 which was pretty reasonable.
Ecurie Ecosse said:
Get the transmission fluid changed when it is in too.
I do plan on having the transmission fluid changed at some point soon. The gearchanges are pretty seamless at the moment though, it is far more smoother than other automatic cars I have owned which had half the miles on them.Jaguar steve said:
Found a set of metal bodied top tensioners on e bay for £50. Last ones I bought were over £100/pair from the main Stealer. Trade price will knock maybe 30-40% off that.
I found a set with the required bolts for £75 including postage. That then puts the labour from the cheapest quote at just under £300, and nearly £450 for the most expensive quote. Looks like I will have to join the JEC to hire the tools and have a go myself.I fix espresso machines and am quite handy, but had a look at the process and didn't fancy it much.
On the pricing side, I'm picking mine up on Friday from TL Jaguar, nr Reading. The job cost me £780 (inc VAT). They did the gearbox flush and re-fill (extra) at the same time. It's always difficult to give comparisons, when its not totally clear what they're doing for you. Think you need to go on recommendations.
Might be worth posting up a request for recommendations in your area, and see who comes out top.
Beans for me too.
Best of luck.
On the pricing side, I'm picking mine up on Friday from TL Jaguar, nr Reading. The job cost me £780 (inc VAT). They did the gearbox flush and re-fill (extra) at the same time. It's always difficult to give comparisons, when its not totally clear what they're doing for you. Think you need to go on recommendations.
Might be worth posting up a request for recommendations in your area, and see who comes out top.
Beans for me too.
Best of luck.
Full set. They turned it round in a day (didn't want him to, just to give me a bit of time to find the money). Mine didn't have any rattle, but from previous posts, felt I had to get it done for peace of mind. The price is on the front page of their website as a special offer. There must surely be a 'TL Jaguar' type Indy up your way?
OR... Give Tom a ring at TL, he may know someone up there. He knew of the previous guy I used Nr Weston s Mare, who unfortunately didn't do the tensioners like I asked. It's all about trust, when you put your P&J in the hands of a 'stranger'.
OR...If you have £780 (and a bit), go down to Reading (or somewhere else that people recommend, I'm sure JaguarSteve might know somewhere), go down in the morning, get the job done (possibly stay at a travelodge at £60), have a night out in Reading!!!!! (joke), and go home the next day. It all depends on your time, ability, stress levels and budget, I suppose?
OR... Give Tom a ring at TL, he may know someone up there. He knew of the previous guy I used Nr Weston s Mare, who unfortunately didn't do the tensioners like I asked. It's all about trust, when you put your P&J in the hands of a 'stranger'.
OR...If you have £780 (and a bit), go down to Reading (or somewhere else that people recommend, I'm sure JaguarSteve might know somewhere), go down in the morning, get the job done (possibly stay at a travelodge at £60), have a night out in Reading!!!!! (joke), and go home the next day. It all depends on your time, ability, stress levels and budget, I suppose?
Euro5stars said:
OR...If you have £780 (and a bit), go down to Reading (or somewhere else that people recommend, I'm sure JaguarSteve might know somewhere), go down in the morning, get the job done (possibly stay at a travelodge at £60), have a night out in Reading!!!!! (joke), and go home the next day. It all depends on your time, ability, stress levels and budget, I suppose?
I know a lot of owners do that even traveled down from Scotland, even had owners come over from France and as far afield as SwedanHad a look at the TL website and it seems its £900 for the supercharged engines, still £300 cheaper than the quotes I had locally. My quotes are from 4 specialists, all within a 55 mile radius. 3 of the 4 come recommended from members on jaguarforum.co.uk I guess it's just the going rate around these parts.
Took the RH cam cover off this morning, not as difficult as I thought it would be. It took me more time searching for a 10mm spanner in my house.
Heres the culprit -
Took the RH cam cover off this morning, not as difficult as I thought it would be. It took me more time searching for a 10mm spanner in my house.
Heres the culprit -
giblet said:
Had a look at the TL website and it seems its £900 for the supercharged engines, still £300 cheaper than the quotes I had locally. My quotes are from 4 specialists, all within a 55 mile radius. 3 of the 4 come recommended from members on jaguarforum.co.uk I guess it's just the going rate around these parts.
Took the RH cam cover off this morning, not as difficult as I thought it would be. It took me more time searching for a 10mm spanner in my house.
Heres the culprit -
That's a 3rd gen aluminium bodied tensioner.Took the RH cam cover off this morning, not as difficult as I thought it would be. It took me more time searching for a 10mm spanner in my house.
Heres the culprit -
NormanD said:
giblet said:
Jaguar steve said:
That's a 3rd gen aluminium bodied tensioner.
My lack of sleep has resulted in me completely missing the body of the tensioner and looking only at the ruddy plastic bit. AAARRGGGHHHHJaguar Steve - what is the easiest way of checking to see if the primary tensioners have been replaced? The chains all look fine with no wear marks etc. I had a look into the engine with a torch and can't seem to see any obvious plastic to indicate first gen primary tensioners.
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