Main Dealer Trying it on.

[Scotty2]

Some of you may remember my post some time ago about the uncanny appearence of my "Brake Warning Light" after a service recommending a rear pad change.

I have waited 7 months for a response so have sent this off today. I attach the un-named version for the name and shame policy:

Dear Sirs,

I am writing to you to complain about the standard of workmanship in the service department and the apparent attempt to get me to pay for unnecessary work. The response when I complained in person was that “they would get back to me”, which some 7 months later no one has bothered to do so. They do know my details as I have been reminded by mail that my car was due a service, but after I witnessed the standard of care previously taken with my car, I wouldn’t let anyone from XXXXXXXXs near it.

Here are the details:

20th Sept 2011 1st Service: Invoice number: 47172
Mileage: 10 640
Service carried out – No issues. Brake wear given as: F 10%, R 10%

13th Sept 2012 2nd Service: Invoice number: 51031
Mileage: 20 159. Brake wear given as: F 40% R 65-70% worn.
Service carried out. Call made to me advising that the rear pads were low and needed changing. Would I like to have them changed while the car was being serviced? I declined the offer.

Around this time I also purchased a door mirror glass to fit my damaged OSF door mirror. I was informed that the “Technicians were unable to fit it as the mirror chassis was too badly damaged.” I took the glass away and fitted it myself in around 3 minutes.

29th November 2012: Warranty work –OSR alloy corroding – Replaced
Mileage: 22 383. Brake wear given as F 25% R 80% and discs required.
While the replacement door mirror was replaced with a part supplied by me (wind noise from damaged chassis) I was contacted regarding the rear brakes. I was informed that “As I had not had the pads changed at the last service, the discs were now damaged and both the discs and pads needed replacing.” - I was now sceptical about this advice as I have carried out mechanical work on motor vehicles before, and the last time I has washed the car had looked at the rear pads and did not think they were too worn. I also noted that the “Low Brake Pad” warning light was now illuminating.

I now took the decision to get the brakes looked at by my local garage. I bought a complete set of compatible pads from an independent Jaguar supplier (in case I needed the fronts at a later date) and dropped the car off. Their findings were as detailed below:

28th December 2012: Check brakes.
Mileage: 22 971 (588 miles since XXXXXXXXs last check).
Independent brake inspection gave the following comments:
Rear pads approx 60% worn, warning light cable damaged. Discs perfectly serviceable.
Front pads worn to metal (100% worn) and discs damaged on inner surface.
Front discs corrosion removed and new pads fitted all round (although I was informed that the rears were serviceable).

19th February Complaint made to XXXXXXXXs: No response to date.
I had a meeting nearby, so called in person (with the front pads removed on 28th Dec as evidence) to complain about the push to replace perfectly adequate rear discs and pads, and the fact that despite recording the front pad wear as 25% 588 miles ago, the pads were now down to the metal!

I gave the service manger the invoices to copy and a copy of the report from my local independent garage. I also complained that it seemed to be a case of “trying it on” to get unnecessary extra work carried out at my expense. I was assured that it would be looked into and that they would get back to me. No one has – apart from to remind me that my car was due a service.

Well, there is no way I will ever let any of your so-called Technicians near my car ever again. They failed to spot my front brake pads being dangerously low and tried to get me to pay for work that was not required by replacing perfectly serviceable parts. This practice gives the main dealers (of which there are numerous reports of similar instances) a bad name and for me has spoiled the main dealer relationship forever.

I have now had my car serviced at my local independent garage.

“Outstanding?” More like “Outrageous”

You really should be reported to trading standards.

Yours truly,



Scotty2

[Kenzle]

So just to summarise:

The dealer said that the rear pads were completely worn out and that the rear discs were damaged and needed replacing.

Whereas in reality, after your independent inspection from an independent garage, it turns out that the front pads were completely worn out and that the front discs were damaged and needed replacing.

Seems like a funny thing to be 'trying on' given that the parts and labour charge to get the brakes in working order again would be the same.

Maybe there was just a simple communication error and the bloke on the phone said 'rear' when he should have said 'front'...?

[Scotty2]

Read the text.

They repeatedly said the rears were shot and nothing wrong at the front (3 times) so unless they can't tell front from back they are trying it on.

[Domf]

Does the dealer reside in 'H' and starts with a 'H'? and specialist is in 'H' half a mile away. Y/N

[Zwolf]

I wouldn't have waited 7 months for something that bothered me so much.

At this point, they'll assume you're just trying it on and are after a free set of brakes at the other end...

[Ashley1111]

Nit wishing to cause any kind of argument as I have no input in our dealerships service department but I too am more than capable of changing a set of discs and pads etc.

You state that you checked your own rear pads whilst washing your car but yet didn't think to check or missed the fact that your front pads were non existent and that the discs were scored....?

Should have been fairly easy to spot (not to mention feel / hear) for anyone with an ounce of mechanical knowledge?

What car was it? Age? Mileage? Etc

[BE57 TOY]

Shocking

[Scotty2]

FFS Why do I seem to be the one in the wrong here??

The car was bought brand new.

To maintain warranty, the car went back to the main dealer.

I have several other (older) cars which I maintain by a mixture of local garages and my own work.

I had put it off to experience, but the combination of a smarmey letter asking me to take it back for its third service, AND to consider buying another car from them AND a thread in General Gassing about others having similar issues with other main dealers prompted me to share my experience perhaps as a warning to be vigilante.

I have since had a phone call from the dealer asking if they could do anything to win me back, but as I was explaining the list of reasons why I no longer trust them, he hung up on me!

I was not trying to extorte any "free discs" or anything like that. I wanted an explanation of why they were, in my view, commiting fraud.

If I could get anything from them, it would be a letter apologising for the attempt to carry out unneccessary work AND a promise to re-train their service staffnot to continue the practice with other customers.


Oh and thaks for your support guys :rollseyes:

p.s. My location may narrow down the potential offenders.

[wiggycerb]

I've had a similar run in with main dealer Scotty, they reported my wife's Micra had 70% worn rear shoes at 40k.

Cutting a long story short I finally changed them at 94k and they still had a bit of meat left. I wish I had taken the time to do a write up like yours.

Spot on sir and I hope you get your answer.

[peteman]

Hi Scotty,

Looks like some people on here can see no issue with the dealers. I have had similar issues as you over my Jaguar ownership, and not all good. My 1st XKR I bought back in 2007 was a 2003 4.2 which had all the usual niggles: Crap ariel, misting headlamps, camber sensitive on 20" Detroits, not the best gearbox either. Most experience with the main dealer was broken promises to call back, overpricing and on one occasion even lied to me. I sold the car shortly afterwards and went back to my old TVR, at least I was aware of the marques potential for leaving me stranded, but it never did thankfully.
A year ago I was willing to give Jaguar and the local main dealer another go and purchased myself the 5 litre XKR Convertible. Much better than the old model and ballistically quick, maybe a little overpowered for our road network. But I honestly think they still have a little way to go on reliability. From day 1 my parking sensors couldn't handle the rain and would go haywire, corrosion on the bootlid, then with only just over 10k miles on the clock the Ediff motor packed up. A £650 part which was obviously not fit for purpose. Once again the main dealer was used to carry out the warranty repair and as I had a couple of hours free decided to wait on site and watch the work being carried out through the viewing window. I watched the mechanic syphon all the old fluid out of the diff, replace the part and then refill the diff with the old fluid from the same bucket. The repair was carried out under warranty but then I was horrified to be presented with an invoice for £65.00 for new diff oil, I challenged the service lady, explaining exactly what I had seen. she went off to speak to someone for a couple of minutes, reappeared and appologised for the mistake, taking back the invoice. If I had not been present and seen what had gone on I would have willingly paid thinking I had fresh oil in my diff and never been any the wiser.
While waiting I overheared quite a few phone calls to customers reporting on various items that were found to be in need of replacement, including discs, pads etc and it just left me suspicious on how much was really neccessary, and if a proportion of the advised work was just cash generating. Anyway I left there with their promise to call me to discuss extending the warranty and their service plans, which not supprisingly never materialised. A while later I decided to sell the car which happily did sell very quickly and got another cheaper, older convertible that I would be able to carry out servicing and small repairs myself and not have to rely on main dealers.
I did as you a few months later receive a call reminding that my next service was due and politely declined.

[Jaguar steve]

peteman said:

Hi Scotty,

Looks like some people on here can see no issue with the dealers. I have had similar issues as you over my Jaguar ownership, and not all good. My 1st XKR I bought back in 2007 was a 2003 4.2 which had all the usual niggles: Crap ariel, misting headlamps, camber sensitive on 20" Detroits, not the best gearbox either. Most experience with the main dealer was broken promises to call back, overpricing and on one occasion even lied to me. I sold the car shortly afterwards and went back to my old TVR, at least I was aware of the marques potential for leaving me stranded, but it never did thankfully.
A year ago I was willing to give Jaguar and the local main dealer another go and purchased myself the 5 litre XKR Convertible. Much better than the old model and ballistically quick, maybe a little overpowered for our road network. But I honestly think they still have a little way to go on reliability. From day 1 my parking sensors couldn't handle the rain and would go haywire, corrosion on the bootlid, then with only just over 10k miles on the clock the Ediff motor packed up. A £650 part which was obviously not fit for purpose. Once again the main dealer was used to carry out the warranty repair and as I had a couple of hours free decided to wait on site and watch the work being carried out through the viewing window. I watched the mechanic syphon all the old fluid out of the diff, replace the part and then refill the diff with the old fluid from the same bucket. The repair was carried out under warranty but then I was horrified to be presented with an invoice for £65.00 for new diff oil, I challenged the service lady, explaining exactly what I had seen. she went off to speak to someone for a couple of minutes, reappeared and appologised for the mistake, taking back the invoice. If I had not been present and seen what had gone on I would have willingly paid thinking I had fresh oil in my diff and never been any the wiser.
While waiting I overheared quite a few phone calls to customers reporting on various items that were found to be in need of replacement, including discs, pads etc and it just left me suspicious on how much was really neccessary, and if a proportion of the advised work was just cash generating. Anyway I left there with their promise to call me to discuss extending the warranty and their service plans, which not supprisingly never materialised. A while later I decided to sell the car which happily did sell very quickly and got another cheaper, older convertible that I would be able to carry out servicing and small repairs myself and not have to rely on main dealers.
I did as you a few months later receive a call reminding that my next service was due and politely declined.

I watched the mechanic syphon all the old fluid out of the diff, replace the part and then refill the diff with the old fluid from the same bucket.

They actually put the old oil back in? Good fking grief

[peteman]

Yes Steve that is 100% true, I was surprised they did that myself, then speechless when they asked for a settlement payment for the new fluids. Before the Jags I have had a lot of older more simple cars and been happy to do the work myself, I even obtained a 240v 2 poster ramp when I had my Chimaeras and did all the work myself.As the old saying goes, "If you want something done properly, Do it yourself" you just have to know your limits and not go beyond and risk doing more harm than good. I don't mind getting my hands dirty with my vehicles, I tend to enjoy them more, but these days with all the electrical technology it's becoming impossible to do anything other than simple stuff.

Edited by peteman on Sunday 15th September 19:42

[Euro5stars]

Seems to be you're in the minority Scotty2, if you think that a main dealer should know the difference between the front and back of a car, judging by the responses you got. Especially the sales guy above. Really enhances a marques reputation when even the sales dept pitches in on customers?
I'll never use main dealer again after my 2 bad experiences. Even now after a snotty letter in, they still send me reminders that servicing is due. They have the skin of a rhino.
There must be some good ones surely?

[giblet]

Thats not the kind of service you expect from a main dealer, especially with a marque like Jaguar. At the end of the day the mechanics should be able to tell their arse from their elbow, and front pads from rears. The fact that you were given two reports with the pad wear noted incorrectly is a joke. Given that you bought the car brand new from them you would expect them to have better aftersales care and to look after their customers.

I would fire off an email to the Jaguar head office detailing your experience and the stty response you got from the dealership. Like you say, all the dealer had to do was apologise for the cock up and tell the service dept to stop acting like idiots.

[Zwolf]

If 95% of their customers just take their recommendations at face value and have the work done and pay up (most do), it's still good business for them and is pretty much how every dealership works...