Life expectancy of Second generation tensioners?
Discussion
Well to my horror it appears that the garage that "changed the secondary tensioners to the newer type" installed the second generation (yellow, very thick plastic with spring) tensioners. Not the third generation as I was led to believe by the previous owner (a now not so trusted friend!).
The chain guide rails have been replaced with the steel variety and there are no visible signs of wear. The car has only covered about 15,000 in the 3 years since fitment.
The bottom line is that I do not have the money to pay some body to fit the Gen3 tensioners for me and I am looking to sell the car. Even if I fit the tensioners myself I won't be able to do it until the new year.
Unfortunately there seems to be quite a bit of conflicting information about the life expectancy of these tensioners with professional opinion ranging from "they'll be fine for up to 6 years" right through to "FOR THE LOVE OF GOD CHANGE THEM NOW".
What's the concensus on this is? Is there any empirical evidence about how long they will last?
(Oh and for the love of god don't let Stratstone Jaguar near your car!).
The chain guide rails have been replaced with the steel variety and there are no visible signs of wear. The car has only covered about 15,000 in the 3 years since fitment.
The bottom line is that I do not have the money to pay some body to fit the Gen3 tensioners for me and I am looking to sell the car. Even if I fit the tensioners myself I won't be able to do it until the new year.
Unfortunately there seems to be quite a bit of conflicting information about the life expectancy of these tensioners with professional opinion ranging from "they'll be fine for up to 6 years" right through to "FOR THE LOVE OF GOD CHANGE THEM NOW".
What's the concensus on this is? Is there any empirical evidence about how long they will last?
(Oh and for the love of god don't let Stratstone Jaguar near your car!).
Sorry to hear about that.
I have no 'proper' information but the series 1 tensioners on my '98, 100k miles XJR were fine (no cracks or much visible wear) so I think it probably depends on a lot of things, how the car is driven, the quality/condition of oil, how hot they get etc. I suppose you could pay the 1 hour labour or so to get them inspected every 20k miles?
Hope it doesn't ruin your enjoyment of the car.
I have no 'proper' information but the series 1 tensioners on my '98, 100k miles XJR were fine (no cracks or much visible wear) so I think it probably depends on a lot of things, how the car is driven, the quality/condition of oil, how hot they get etc. I suppose you could pay the 1 hour labour or so to get them inspected every 20k miles?
Hope it doesn't ruin your enjoyment of the car.
The change at all costs people are over the top IMO , from postings I have read the early MK1s usually made 60K miles and 5 years without snapping. I heard of one XJ8 that did 200K miles on the early tensioner set up !
If you still have the originals they should be changed ! If they replaced with the spring loaded then 60K or 6 years seems a good time to swap. Mine were done about four years ago and that's my plan
If you still have the originals they should be changed ! If they replaced with the spring loaded then 60K or 6 years seems a good time to swap. Mine were done about four years ago and that's my plan
That sounds reasonable.
The gen2 part certainly seems a lot hardier than the original and with the easy life my XJR gets I can't see it being an issue in the short term.
I guess I'll just have to keep an eye on it and be sure to change it with the steel bodied type in the next couple of years if I keep hold of the car.
Cheers for the advice chaps.
The gen2 part certainly seems a lot hardier than the original and with the easy life my XJR gets I can't see it being an issue in the short term.
I guess I'll just have to keep an eye on it and be sure to change it with the steel bodied type in the next couple of years if I keep hold of the car.
Cheers for the advice chaps.
maybe not your "ex" pals fault. replaced my yr2000 XKR's chains tensioners everything at 62k miles, dealer assured me "latest version last for ever", guess what happen as 120k? Then it was 2 weeks in the dealers, theres some kind of parts issue at the moment. just got it back, think I will sell it at 175k... 
My 2nd gen tensioners gave up at just under 100k. As it was a '98 car, it would have originally had 1st gen tensioners fitted, so the 2nd gen obviously lasted some way short of the 100k.
From my research at the time, it would appear that the 2nd gen tensioners were no better than the 1st gen, the spring only serving to remove the 'death rattle' warning.
If you can't afford to replace them, then the suggestion to pay 1hr labout to have them checked is a good one. Get the verdict in writing and include it when you sell the car.
From my research at the time, it would appear that the 2nd gen tensioners were no better than the 1st gen, the spring only serving to remove the 'death rattle' warning.
If you can't afford to replace them, then the suggestion to pay 1hr labout to have them checked is a good one. Get the verdict in writing and include it when you sell the car.
Evoluzione R said:
I didn't know that there's a third generation tensioner. Now I'm worried because I don't know which kind of tensioner was fitted when they changed the first one.
Open up the O/S cam cover. Remove airbox, coilpacks and eventually cambolts. Direct your attention to the top of the timing chain.Red tensioner = Generation 1 - Change immediately.
Orange tensioner = Generation 2 - Believed to be better but life expectancy unknown.
Metal tensioner = Generation 3 - Supposedly a lot longer living but again there is no empirical proof of this that I could find.
Tensioner in this case is red/orange
For details on the types of tensioner fitted along with predicted life expectancies;
http://www.jagservice.net/jaguar_v8_secondary_tens...
HTH,
Gareth
ETA: My car is now sold. So no more worries for me.
Edited by G_T on Tuesday 20th October 10:08
Second gen tensioners are cream, not orange 'tho they will eventually discolour to a reddish brown.
My XJ had second gen ones from new. At 63k both bodies had split, one to the extent that the only thing holding it together was the tension of the secondary chain - it came apart in my hand when I removed it.
My XJ had second gen ones from new. At 63k both bodies had split, one to the extent that the only thing holding it together was the tension of the secondary chain - it came apart in my hand when I removed it.
G_T said:
I guess the second generation come in a variety of colours then. Mine were definately orange and second generation.
Strange that.. I've seen all three lined up together. 1st gen orange, second cream and third..well metal, but thats's no real proof the manufacturer always made the first or second gen ones exactly the same colour. Regardless, I'd suggest fitting the metal bodied ones for peace of mind. It's not a difficult job at all really, you can hire the timing tools from the JEC and it'll only take a couple of hours. The most difficult part of the job is getting the dipstick tube bracket off
... Jaguar steve said:
G_T said:
I guess the second generation come in a variety of colours then. Mine were definately orange and second generation.
Strange that.. I've seen all three lined up together. 1st gen orange, second cream and third..well metal, but thats's no real proof the manufacturer always made the first or second gen ones exactly the same colour. Regardless, I'd suggest fitting the metal bodied ones for peace of mind. It's not a difficult job at all really, you can hire the timing tools from the JEC and it'll only take a couple of hours. The most difficult part of the job is getting the dipstick tube bracket off
... Yes very odd. But the ones on my car were definately much thicker than the red ones pictured on my link and had metal spring/plating inside it. Fitted by Jaguar in 2004 or 2006 too.
I've flogged the car now anyway. Tempted to ring up the buyer and inform him but I guess giving him the dates and receipt for fitment is probably enough. I didn't advice him to get the gearbox oil changed and get the tensioners done but I'm starting to wish I had now. I'd make a rubbish dodgey car dealer. I was pointing out the rust and everything when I was trying to sell her.
Evoluzione R said:
Many thanx to G_T and all of You guys for the answers.
I remember I have the invoice of the tensioner change: is it possible to suppose which tensioner I have from tha date of the invoice?
Personally I wouldn't risk it. For piece of mind I reckon your best bet really is to have a look yourself by lifting the cam cover (an easy job) or pay an indy to do it for half an hours labour.I remember I have the invoice of the tensioner change: is it possible to suppose which tensioner I have from tha date of the invoice?
The reason I say that is I should have had generation 3 tensioners according to the invoice but I very much haven't. So clearly there is some confusion over which tensioners needed fitting by some garages.
I can send you the JTIS page showing the order you should tighten the cam cover bolts if you like. If you're not really into DIY let me assure you that the only mistakes you can make are overtightening the bolts (they sheer before you damage the head anyway) or not getting a good seal with the gasket. Neither of which are a major problem.
It's your call. You're probably fine but seeing as how it can completely destroy your engine if you're wrong I'd want confirmation myself.
Just my two pence.
My best understanding of dates goes roughly like this - but please don't take this as gospel, you really must have a look.
1st gen tensioners introduced with the new V8.
2nd gen tensioners introduced around the time when the V8 was revised from Nicasil to steel bores.
3rd gen introduced when the 4.2 was launched in 2003 and later (around 2005) made available with shorter bolts as a retro fit to the 4.0 and 3.2.
This may not be right but it's based on what I remember when all this was going on.
1st gen tensioners introduced with the new V8.
2nd gen tensioners introduced around the time when the V8 was revised from Nicasil to steel bores.
3rd gen introduced when the 4.2 was launched in 2003 and later (around 2005) made available with shorter bolts as a retro fit to the 4.0 and 3.2.
This may not be right but it's based on what I remember when all this was going on.
Sounds correct to me. I had the death rattle on start back in 04 and Jag supplied me with Gen II secondary tensioners, I asked for the 4.2 version but at the time they wouldn't supply them for the 4.0 and as my Dad brought them for me he didn't bother to challange the dealer.
I pulled them last month following 20k miles and the bodies were still like new, however the skids were quite scored.
The car has done 85k miles and the primary tensioners were fine, the cylinders were not cracked and the skids were only cracked in three places. Chains had only stretched by 2mm.
If anyone is interested the cam clamps and crank locating pin are available to borrow now that the job is done.
I pulled them last month following 20k miles and the bodies were still like new, however the skids were quite scored.
The car has done 85k miles and the primary tensioners were fine, the cylinders were not cracked and the skids were only cracked in three places. Chains had only stretched by 2mm.
If anyone is interested the cam clamps and crank locating pin are available to borrow now that the job is done.
Edited by ajmac on Tuesday 10th November 00:52
Edited by ajmac on Tuesday 10th November 01:32
G_T said:
Well to my horror it appears that the garage that "changed the secondary tensioners to the newer type" installed the second generation (yellow, very thick plastic with spring) tensioners. Not the third generation as I was led to believe by the previous owner (a now not so trusted friend!).
The chain guide rails have been replaced with the steel variety and there are no visible signs of wear. The car has only covered about 15,000 in the 3 years since fitment.
The bottom line is that I do not have the money to pay some body to fit the Gen3 tensioners for me and I am looking to sell the car. Even if I fit the tensioners myself I won't be able to do it until the new year.
Unfortunately there seems to be quite a bit of conflicting information about the life expectancy of these tensioners with professional opinion ranging from "they'll be fine for up to 6 years" right through to "FOR THE LOVE OF GOD CHANGE THEM NOW".
What's the concensus on this is? Is there any empirical evidence about how long they will last?
(Oh and for the love of god don't let Stratstone Jaguar near your car!).
Hi GT,The chain guide rails have been replaced with the steel variety and there are no visible signs of wear. The car has only covered about 15,000 in the 3 years since fitment.
The bottom line is that I do not have the money to pay some body to fit the Gen3 tensioners for me and I am looking to sell the car. Even if I fit the tensioners myself I won't be able to do it until the new year.
Unfortunately there seems to be quite a bit of conflicting information about the life expectancy of these tensioners with professional opinion ranging from "they'll be fine for up to 6 years" right through to "FOR THE LOVE OF GOD CHANGE THEM NOW".
What's the concensus on this is? Is there any empirical evidence about how long they will last?
(Oh and for the love of god don't let Stratstone Jaguar near your car!).
I would be only to happy to do your tensioners. If you check my website out you will see a testimonial from the last one I did only a few months ago.
The only answer is the last generation tensioners made of alloy; which is what they should have been made of in the first place!! Jaguar made a serious blunder with this and it has cost them dear in terms of reputation.
I absolutely will not fit anything else to these engines.
Drop me a line or give me a call if you are interested. Contact details on the site.
Regards,
James.
Gassing Station | Jaguar | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff