Griff 500 mods to achieve factory power claims?
Discussion
Hi all,
It’s probably been discussed in years gone by, but mapping has moved on, and hopefully knowledge, too.
The 500 (did any TVR, for that matter?) never achieved it’s factory output figures so I’m looking to compile a list of time proven & reliable modifications. Costings would be excellent, too, if that’s not too much to ask.
I’m buying a LHD Griff from the continent and viewing two next week...wish me luck!
Cheers,
PHH.
It’s probably been discussed in years gone by, but mapping has moved on, and hopefully knowledge, too.
The 500 (did any TVR, for that matter?) never achieved it’s factory output figures so I’m looking to compile a list of time proven & reliable modifications. Costings would be excellent, too, if that’s not too much to ask.
I’m buying a LHD Griff from the continent and viewing two next week...wish me luck!
Cheers,
PHH.
Tony Pond, a name from my youth.......great driver!
Getting back to the subject. A reasonable camshaft, Flowed and ported 5.0 heads, ( better still, some of V8 Developments stage 4 heads) , flowed and ported inlet manifold, trumpet bass and 72 mm plenum should do the trick. Aftermarket ECU of course .
Getting back to the subject. A reasonable camshaft, Flowed and ported 5.0 heads, ( better still, some of V8 Developments stage 4 heads) , flowed and ported inlet manifold, trumpet bass and 72 mm plenum should do the trick. Aftermarket ECU of course .
If your wanting more power Step 1 is remove the bricks from the exhaust system step 2 fit bigger afm step 3 dyno/remap. Anything more like porting,swapping to aftermarket xbox360 management systems, twin plenums are pointless before step 3, the 340 horse could be achieved without. What tvr should have said is i'ts 340 but its been restricted by the government. When cats became a requirement tvr hadn't really figured for it.
Edited by O mage on Thursday 3rd September 20:48
I’ve got a rebuilt but otherwise standard 450 with main cat In place that produced 299 hp after MBE aftermarket ecu install. I’d say it’s at least 310 hp de cat.
The engine runs much better at lower and top end revs so overall a big improvement and defo added a few horses to the mix.
A reliable spark and accurate timing coupled with better injectors and fine Fuel tuning by Jay at Powers Produced those numbers, I’d easily get that to 320 if I ported/ tuned the engine some more. It’s on standard 38 mm induction trumpets and heads!
Taking it to 340 Hp starts to take on a whole new meaning and cost. Is it worth it, not really in my view. Keep it torquey and forget a few hp is my view as I think that’s the most fun combination and on our roads I use that grunt more than I will the hp. It’s a rare occasion your going to thrash it upto limiter on our roads, it’s just not cricket these days anyway as we have many great committed cyclists taking over the roads so we need to give them space.
But it’s true the average speed is getting lower and lower, my car with lots of torque is ready for that day 
The engine runs much better at lower and top end revs so overall a big improvement and defo added a few horses to the mix.
A reliable spark and accurate timing coupled with better injectors and fine Fuel tuning by Jay at Powers Produced those numbers, I’d easily get that to 320 if I ported/ tuned the engine some more. It’s on standard 38 mm induction trumpets and heads!
Taking it to 340 Hp starts to take on a whole new meaning and cost. Is it worth it, not really in my view. Keep it torquey and forget a few hp is my view as I think that’s the most fun combination and on our roads I use that grunt more than I will the hp. It’s a rare occasion your going to thrash it upto limiter on our roads, it’s just not cricket these days anyway as we have many great committed cyclists taking over the roads so we need to give them space.
But it’s true the average speed is getting lower and lower, my car with lots of torque is ready for that day O mage said:
If your wanting more power Step 1 is remove the bricks from the exhaust system step 2 fit bigger afm step 3 dyno/remap. Anything more like porting,swapping to aftermarket xbox360 management systems, twin plenums are pointless before step 3, the 340 horse could be achieved without. What tvr should have said is i'ts 340 but its been restricted by the government. When cats became a requirement tvr hadn't really figured for it.
The cost of a decent bigger AFM and then re map is what 500 nicker at least. Well on the way to a completely modern system that can be mapped by anyone worth his salt in the mapping game! Edited by O mage on Thursday 3rd September 20:48
A large airflow meter and remap onto an otherwise std car will get you from 275 ish up to 285/290
Add 5hp for short trumpets or blended base
Add 5hp for smoothbore pipes
Add 15hp for a stealth cam or similar
Add 5hp for a 72mm plenum
Add 5-10 hp for decat Y / precat removal
That lot would get you near the 315-325 mark on most good engines.
After that the H404 is the next logical cam up but road manners suffer.
Aftermarket ecu will add another 10hp over all that.
Most good V8 engine builder engines with good heads and a decent cam on aftermarket ecus will get 340-350hp
To match the 320 tvr claimed for the std 500 griffith starting with a completely std car (ignoring the low power early chim 500 at 290hp) would be around 3 grand I'd say .. to add another 20hp would be 2000-2500 depending on ecu options.
As with all things .. how fast can you afford to go ?
You've also got to remember that many of tvrs power figures were marketing driven .. Who would trade in their Rouse engined wedge at 275hp for a griffith 500 with the same or even slightly less power ? Or a 430 Griffith ? No it had to be a number north of 300 for the 5litre otherwise sales would have suffered.
Likewise later on who would trade in their 350hp 4.2 cerbera for a 4.5 cerbera which made less power in the real world ? No it had to be a number north of 400 otherwise no-one would buy the 4.5
Tuners have been making a living out of bringing the cars up to where they should have been all along for the last quarter of a century.
Add 5hp for short trumpets or blended base
Add 5hp for smoothbore pipes
Add 15hp for a stealth cam or similar
Add 5hp for a 72mm plenum
Add 5-10 hp for decat Y / precat removal
That lot would get you near the 315-325 mark on most good engines.
After that the H404 is the next logical cam up but road manners suffer.
Aftermarket ecu will add another 10hp over all that.
Most good V8 engine builder engines with good heads and a decent cam on aftermarket ecus will get 340-350hp
To match the 320 tvr claimed for the std 500 griffith starting with a completely std car (ignoring the low power early chim 500 at 290hp) would be around 3 grand I'd say .. to add another 20hp would be 2000-2500 depending on ecu options.
As with all things .. how fast can you afford to go ?
You've also got to remember that many of tvrs power figures were marketing driven .. Who would trade in their Rouse engined wedge at 275hp for a griffith 500 with the same or even slightly less power ? Or a 430 Griffith ? No it had to be a number north of 300 for the 5litre otherwise sales would have suffered.
Likewise later on who would trade in their 350hp 4.2 cerbera for a 4.5 cerbera which made less power in the real world ? No it had to be a number north of 400 otherwise no-one would buy the 4.5
Tuners have been making a living out of bringing the cars up to where they should have been all along for the last quarter of a century.
Great suggestions, thanks.
I’ve also been told to look at the Taraka package offered by TVR Power...it ain’t cheap, but hopefully worth it :-)
I’m used to decent power and little weight (Cobra replica with 7L Ford) But the thing runs out of Puff due to the massive air brake, aka wind screen, as it doesn’t have a hard top.
I reckon a well set up Griff would give it a run for its money!
I’ve also been told to look at the Taraka package offered by TVR Power...it ain’t cheap, but hopefully worth it :-)
I’m used to decent power and little weight (Cobra replica with 7L Ford) But the thing runs out of Puff due to the massive air brake, aka wind screen, as it doesn’t have a hard top.
I reckon a well set up Griff would give it a run for its money!
Yep you get a refreshed engine of course with a taraka upgrade with a warranty which will swing it for many people 
on my dyno they make just over 300hp on a 5am afm and around 315 on a larger bore afm. The last one I did on a 20am afm made 313hp / 335lb.ft so very very close to what tvr claim. If you're thinking of a rebuild anyway then it starts to make sense. In the interest of fairness other engine rebuilders are available.
on my dyno they make just over 300hp on a 5am afm and around 315 on a larger bore afm. The last one I did on a 20am afm made 313hp / 335lb.ft so very very close to what tvr claim. If you're thinking of a rebuild anyway then it starts to make sense. In the interest of fairness other engine rebuilders are available.spitfire4v8 said:
Yep you get a refreshed engine of course with a taraka upgrade with a warranty which will swing it for many people on my dyno they make just over 300hp on a 5am afm and around 315 on a larger bore afm. The last one I did on a 20am afm made 313hp / 335lb.ft so very very close to what tvr claim. If you're thinking of a rebuild anyway then it starts to make sense. In the interest of fairness other engine rebuilders are available.
Thanks for the great info. on my dyno they make just over 300hp on a 5am afm and around 315 on a larger bore afm. The last one I did on a 20am afm made 313hp / 335lb.ft so very very close to what tvr claim. If you're thinking of a rebuild anyway then it starts to make sense. In the interest of fairness other engine rebuilders are available.Please feel free to PM me your business details, as I’m sure advertising is frowned upon here.
TGIF :-)
Edited by PotHoleHater on Friday 4th September 10:05
spitfire4v8 said:
To match the 320 tvr claimed for the std 500 griffith starting with a completely std car (ignoring the low power early chim 500 at 290hp) would be around 3 grand I'd say .. to add another 20hp would be 2000-2500 depending on ecu options.
As with all things .. how fast can you afford to go ?
How fast? Brisk, perhaps quickly, definitely not warp factor 9 ;-) As with all things .. how fast can you afford to go ?
The law of diminishing returns seems to kick in at around the 320/330bhp mark.
If £4K was enough for 340/350bhp I may be tempted...just have to find the right (LHD) car first...
All Chims and Griffs are quick, and a joy to drive because of the experience, the noise, and the waves of torque.
Where you can drive them to the limit of their power in the UK or France is another issue entirely.
The public road is a joke, all potholes, traffic and speed limits/cameras.
So that brings us onto the race track, and a TVR is quick but not outstandingly so.
Many other cars handle a whole lot better and so corner a whole lot faster.
If you want fast in a straight line, and comfort the rest of the time, buy a BMW M5 and take the speed limiter off.
In the end, how much you spend depends on what you want to do with the car.
For road use, I would argue that there's not a lot of point spending too much.
As Boosted LS99 says, if you want real power, turbocharge it, but not before you have strengthened the engine, drive train and chassis, and worked out how and were you are going to use that power and keep your licence.
Where you can drive them to the limit of their power in the UK or France is another issue entirely.
The public road is a joke, all potholes, traffic and speed limits/cameras.
So that brings us onto the race track, and a TVR is quick but not outstandingly so.
Many other cars handle a whole lot better and so corner a whole lot faster.
If you want fast in a straight line, and comfort the rest of the time, buy a BMW M5 and take the speed limiter off.
In the end, how much you spend depends on what you want to do with the car.
For road use, I would argue that there's not a lot of point spending too much.
As Boosted LS99 says, if you want real power, turbocharge it, but not before you have strengthened the engine, drive train and chassis, and worked out how and were you are going to use that power and keep your licence.
PotHoleHater said:
Great suggestions, thanks.
I’ve also been told to look at the Taraka package offered by TVR Power...it ain’t cheap, but hopefully worth it :-)
I’m used to decent power and little weight (Cobra replica with 7L Ford) But the thing runs out of Puff due to the massive air brake, aka wind screen, as it doesn’t have a hard top.
I reckon a well set up Griff would give it a run for its money!
i have taraka conv on mine.I’ve also been told to look at the Taraka package offered by TVR Power...it ain’t cheap, but hopefully worth it :-)
I’m used to decent power and little weight (Cobra replica with 7L Ford) But the thing runs out of Puff due to the massive air brake, aka wind screen, as it doesn’t have a hard top.
I reckon a well set up Griff would give it a run for its money!
cant really say i notice much difference.
low down torque is meant to be better and smoother.
just passed MOT after about 7 years off the road so i can barely remember driving it!
You may want to consider a replacement engine, it will soon add up quickly doing small bits and pieces none of which will make a huge amount of difference.
Go big or go home is my motto now after spending thousands on my existing 4.0 engine!
I wish I’d gone for something like this from the start.
http://www.v8developments.co.uk/products/engines/l...
Go big or go home is my motto now after spending thousands on my existing 4.0 engine!
I wish I’d gone for something like this from the start.
http://www.v8developments.co.uk/products/engines/l...
I don’t disagree with any of this in fact it’s all very good information.
My car with only 300 hp was only 1/2 second slower than a car with 350 hp down a 1/4 mile drag strip.
To quantify that it’s known that if you blink your eye lids 5 times in quick succession it roughly equates to a second in time, so that 1/2 a second I lagged behind my competitor is equal to just over two blinks of your eye!
In truth it also equates to roughly 8/12 yards loss on my part which seems large but 1/4 is longer than it sounds.
On roads that power will make little difference unless your on some 800 yard straight so if you want to set blistering times on tracks a great idea to have a fully fledged ported big cam engine as above but all other times it will make next to know difference. In fact my car was fast virtue of its torque so on roads I think my engine is just as strong as any with big hp numbers.
It’s all down to what turns you on I think.
I like a warrantee when I’m spending thousands on a risky part of the car so overall I’d say with confidence a Powers engine is built to do the job as a road engine, they are very fast engines regardless of all the bling with others as my car has proven in a timed environment up against that very fast 350 hp car
I started thinking of searching for more numbers I’m glad I just got my block decked when Powers rebuilt my 450. Extra compression just enough to give it lots of torque as that’s where these cars excel . Hp takes a lot of work and what for exactly would be my question.
It’s not so important to me which is why I’m more than happy with my choice of tuning. Keep it simple and reliable for another 50,000 Miles is my moto p.
Done well it’s still a maxed out engine but within limits.
Big end wear is often a consequence of all that power as ultimately the cranks can’t get lubed fast enough or withstand the pressures applied to the con rods. As a road car that’s not going to end well but saying that all these cars are toys and barely do any mileage.
Who doesn’t want 350 hp but will it change the car that much, not really.
As has been proven with Turbo’s get to 360 hp and you soon get used to that extra bit of power so now you need 400 or maybe 450 will excite you. It’s a never ending game as these numbers seem amazing yet acceleration becomes less and less obvious the faster you go.
Where will you use that power is really the question I’d ask before embarking on the endeavour unless it’s simply because you can and it’s fun doing it, a hobby.
Each to there own but I feel a lot of people do this then still feel slightly underwhelmed by what is a little bit more power for a lot of money.
I think Doms engines sit right in that space between fully tuned sometimes difficult engines for ones that are still very quick yet don’t over stress them unduly.
As a business a good plan as anything goes wrong in the TVR world we all hear about it.
My car with only 300 hp was only 1/2 second slower than a car with 350 hp down a 1/4 mile drag strip.
To quantify that it’s known that if you blink your eye lids 5 times in quick succession it roughly equates to a second in time, so that 1/2 a second I lagged behind my competitor is equal to just over two blinks of your eye!
In truth it also equates to roughly 8/12 yards loss on my part which seems large but 1/4 is longer than it sounds.
On roads that power will make little difference unless your on some 800 yard straight so if you want to set blistering times on tracks a great idea to have a fully fledged ported big cam engine as above but all other times it will make next to know difference. In fact my car was fast virtue of its torque so on roads I think my engine is just as strong as any with big hp numbers.
It’s all down to what turns you on I think.
I like a warrantee when I’m spending thousands on a risky part of the car so overall I’d say with confidence a Powers engine is built to do the job as a road engine, they are very fast engines regardless of all the bling with others as my car has proven in a timed environment up against that very fast 350 hp car
I started thinking of searching for more numbers I’m glad I just got my block decked when Powers rebuilt my 450. Extra compression just enough to give it lots of torque as that’s where these cars excel . Hp takes a lot of work and what for exactly would be my question.
It’s not so important to me which is why I’m more than happy with my choice of tuning. Keep it simple and reliable for another 50,000 Miles is my moto p.
Done well it’s still a maxed out engine but within limits.
Big end wear is often a consequence of all that power as ultimately the cranks can’t get lubed fast enough or withstand the pressures applied to the con rods. As a road car that’s not going to end well but saying that all these cars are toys and barely do any mileage.
Who doesn’t want 350 hp but will it change the car that much, not really.
As has been proven with Turbo’s get to 360 hp and you soon get used to that extra bit of power so now you need 400 or maybe 450 will excite you. It’s a never ending game as these numbers seem amazing yet acceleration becomes less and less obvious the faster you go.
Where will you use that power is really the question I’d ask before embarking on the endeavour unless it’s simply because you can and it’s fun doing it, a hobby.
Each to there own but I feel a lot of people do this then still feel slightly underwhelmed by what is a little bit more power for a lot of money.
I think Doms engines sit right in that space between fully tuned sometimes difficult engines for ones that are still very quick yet don’t over stress them unduly.
As a business a good plan as anything goes wrong in the TVR world we all hear about it.
I bought my Griff 500 way back in 2004 with a Taraka rebuild freshly done. I remember the previous owner saying enough with chasing the standard power figure as he had spent a lot of money doing so. When the Griff growls used to take place the mobile rolling road there I used a couple of times when it was simply power runs. Mine managed 299bhp. Paperwork is somewhere. That was running regular unleaded and two sports cats from act. As already mentioned above, the 300 mark is very achievable and reliable, pushing for those extra 20-40bhp will cost money but negligible on the road benefits. Unless forced induction or more cc.
I remember one Griff just before mine went on the power run, owner was confident of a good 270bhp but his car managed 170bhp! He admitted it still felt quick though.
I remember one Griff just before mine went on the power run, owner was confident of a good 270bhp but his car managed 170bhp! He admitted it still felt quick though.
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