Alternative Brake Servo and Master Cylinders

[PeteGriff]

I have decided to start a new dedicated thread for the exercise I detailed in Matt Poxons thread re his failed servo unit.

As you all have hopefully previously read RoseyTVR has kindly offered to loan me a Griff servo and master cylinder setup to assist with the assessment.

Well further on; I secured at the weekend, via eBay, a 2nd hand KA servo and master cylinder all for £12.99 delivered. Should hopefully be on its way to me over the next few days. I may make a jig up from the Griff setup, so as I can assess alternatives, the KA unit being the first. Another candidate is the later Fiesta unit, but we will see how it goes.

Shall keep you posted as the assessment progresses. If the KA unit is successful that would be helpful as there is a plentiful supply of these. It may be possible to make up adaptors to cover more than one alternative!

Regards, Pete

[EGB]

Well done Pete. Keep us updated.

[GadgeS3C]

Pete - thanks for the update.

One thought - I'd always imagined they'd be a plentiful supply of Mk3 Fiesta servos. But then Ford discontinued them!

I'd try and find the most modern replacement possible to maximise the time before we're in this boat again.

Who knows when Ford will delete the Ka servo? I doubt they'll tell us.

Just a thought

[PeteGriff]

GadgeS3C said:

Pete - thanks for the update.

One thought - I'd always imagined they'd be a plentiful supply of Mk3 Fiesta servos. But then Ford discontinued them!

I'd try and find the most modern replacement possible to maximise the time before we're in this boat again.

Who knows when Ford will delete the Ka servo? I doubt they'll tell us.

Just a thought

Many thanks for your comments Gadge, I had considered that. The KA unit I am going to look at first was used in the KA from about 1999 to 2008 so should still be available if not from Ford at least from Motor Factors. I will do a bit of research on the later Fiesta variants, but believe their master cylinder and reservoir to not be compatible with fitment into the Griff wing. The '1' series Mazda was a Fiesta clone so that is also a possibility. Regards, Pete

[GadgeS3C]

PeteGriff said:

GadgeS3C said:

Pete - thanks for the update.

One thought - I'd always imagined they'd be a plentiful supply of Mk3 Fiesta servos. But then Ford discontinued them!

I'd try and find the most modern replacement possible to maximise the time before we're in this boat again.

Who knows when Ford will delete the Ka servo? I doubt they'll tell us.

Just a thought

Many thanks for your comments Gadge, I had considered that. The KA unit I am going to look at first was used in the KA from about 1999 to 2008 so should still be available if not from Ford at least from Motor Factors. I will do a bit of research on the later Fiesta variants, but believe their master cylinder and reservoir to not be compatible with fitment into the Griff wing. The '1' series Mazda was a Fiesta clone so that is also a possibility. Regards, Pete

I thought you'd have thought of it!

Hadn't realised the Ka servo ran until that late - good news.
Gary

[330p4]

Peter think it is the Ka servo in the Tuscan
Ian

[PeteGriff]

330p4 said:

Peter think it is the Ka servo in the Tuscan
Ian

Cheers Ian, did not know that. Will have a look at one of our Mid Essex TVRCC members Tuscans when I next see them. My bargain KA unit is now on its way to me, so when I receive the Griff setup will start to compare. Rgds, Pete

[v8s4me]

GadgeS3C said:

PeteGriff is looking at alternatives servos for the Griff/Chim/S. He's starting with the Ka servo as this is used on the later cars.

I'd drop him a link to this thread on his update thread - http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Sure he'd be interested to take a look.
Gary

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=11&t=1325626&mid=57135&nmt=Servo

[EGB]

Joe. Try again. Unable to open your link!

[GadgeS3C]

It's to this thread in the S forum about alternative servos for conversion.

[V8 GRF]

Mentioned this to the guys at X-Works and whilst a good idea, you also need to check that a new servo with an adapter will fit in the space available as there isn't much room to get the existing unit (without the extra width of an adapter) to fit in the space provided.

Not being negative just want to make sure you don't do a lot of work and then find it won't fit.

[PeteGriff]

V8 GRF said:

Mentioned this to the guys at X-Works and whilst a good idea, you also need to check that a new servo with an adapter will fit in the space available as there isn't much room to get the existing unit (without the extra width of an adapter) to fit in the space provided.

Not being negative just want to make sure you don't do a lot of work and then find it won't fit.

Thanks V8GRF, I had thought of that mate. I now have the KA setup I bought from eBay and am expecting this week on loan a Griff setup from RoseyTVR. What I intend to do as stated in the early part of my thread is jig up and take measurements of all the key dimensions, which will include the position and size of srvo's. The adaptor may be only a flat plate with the correct pitch of holes for the 'new' servo so as they can be drilled into the original griff pedal assembly. This would importantly give the correct postion. So until I make an assessment I cannot comment further, but keep an eye on this post. Regards, Pete

[PeteGriff]

v8s4me said:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Cheers mate have picked up the thread from Gadges reply. By the way you must be careful of what the servo originally came from, as car mass/weight is also a key factor! you do not want to use a servo (though physically a similar size) from a car that is appreciably heavier than the Griff as the servo assist ratio will be too high and therefore the brakes will be 'over-servoed' and cause premature lockup! Manufacturers use bigger servos and/or greater servo ratios (or powered assistance) as the car gets heavier. The KA unit interests me because the KA is approximately 1000KG (a bit under I know, but not far off the Griff). No good using our Fiesta servo on a Mondeo for example, because it is a much heavier car. Hope that is helpful in explaining things? Rgds, Pete

Edited by PeteGriff on Monday 2nd September 14:20

[PeteGriff]

I am now in possession of a Griff servo/master cylinder setup, kindly donated by RosyTVR (Cheers Ian). So over the next couple of months I will make a full assessment of the unit and initially use the KA setup I acquired recently as a first check for potential use. Will keep you posted as things progress. Regards, Pete

[Barreti]

Nice work guys.

Good luck Pete.

[EGB]

eff eff

403 posts

80 months
[report] [news] Tuesday


Brake and clutch master cylinder covers – I am planning to fabricate a cover for the brake master cylinder and re-fabricate the clutch master cylinder cover. I will fix using rivnuts and stainless button machine screws and make up gaskets either from sheet or foam silicone. I want to remove all those smears of silicone from under-bonnet. Has anybody done this and got a mould for the brake master cylinder? If not then when I’ve finished I should have a mould for both so if anybody else is interested..!
I would definitely buy the covers Pete

See eff eff post Pete.

[Pete Mac]

EGB said:

eff eff

403 posts

80 months
[report] [news] Tuesday


Brake and clutch master cylinder covers – I am planning to fabricate a cover for the brake master cylinder and re-fabricate the clutch master cylinder cover. I will fix using rivnuts and stainless button machine screws and make up gaskets either from sheet or foam silicone. I want to remove all those smears of silicone from under-bonnet. Has anybody done this and got a mould for the brake master cylinder? If not then when I’ve finished I should have a mould for both so if anybody else is interested..!
I would definitely buy the covers Pete

See eff eff post Pete.

Are you sure you have put this in the right post? but anyway I have seen it on my post and responded to him. I don't want to get into glass fibre fabrication but if and when I make these covers I am very happy to share moulds or work something out. My only concern is to ensure the moulds don't get f***ed up - we'll have to work that one out later.

I don't want to hijack this thread but I may well need new master cylinders depending on condition of existing. My plan was to hone existing and rebuild but that just may not be possible

[EGB]

Pete Mac said:

Are you sure you have put this in the right post? but anyway I have seen it on my post and responded to him. I don't want to get into glass fibre fabrication but if and when I make these covers I am very happy to share moulds or work something out. My only concern is to ensure the moulds don't get f***ed up - we'll have to work that one out later.

I don't want to hijack this thread but I may well need new master cylinders depending on condition of existing. My plan was to hone existing and rebuild but that just may not be possible

Thanks. A tale of two Peters with a common interest, which hopefully will benefit all Griff and Chim owners wanting easy access service and repair for their brake servo and clutch MC. Methinks, a heat resistant panel on the inside of the offside wing will be a great help. TVR were never enthusiastic about making easy access for ease of maintenance and repair. A change of exhaust gasget a case in point. Good luck.

[magpies]

there are only 2 servo/master cylinders for the Ka ABS and non-ABS. TVR used the ABS version (bore 20.2?)

I have been informed that this has been discontinued!! although the unsuitable non ABS is still available....typical

[Pete Mac]

EGB said:

Thanks. A tale of two Peters with a common interest, which hopefully will benefit all Griff and Chim owners wanting easy access service and repair for their brake servo and clutch MC. Methinks, a heat resistant panel on the inside of the offside wing will be a great help. TVR were never enthusiastic about making easy access for ease of maintenance and repair. A change of exhaust gasget a case in point. Good luck.

Pen, appreciate your vote of confidence. Mine is all talk and planning at the moment but as and when I have made up those moulds for the two master cylinders (as well as the cover above the fuse box) then I will report back and am sure that I will end up making some of these up for fellow Griff/Chim owners it's just I don't want to go into business doing it as I don't think it will pay me enough.......

I am very interested in this master cylinder thread as like most, I want to keep brakes and clutch in A1 condition and sooner or later I am sure I will need to replace one or more. Just a thought, if the KA ABS Master Cylinders are not available in the UK, would they still be available in Europe somewhere? Was the Mk 1 KA manufactured in Germany or somewhere else in Europe, does anyone know? Just a thought but not wanting to send this thread up a false trail. Good luck guys, If I find out anything I will report in. Pete