More starting relay issues
Discussion
So I pushed the battery back into place, repacked the floating loom and lo and behold no starting again.
So a few questions (car is a 1992 PreCat):
What do the 2 silver Bosch floating relays do?
My handbook says the ignition relay is a RLFK30, but when I removed it, it was a similar, but had much bigger spades on two of the terminals. Any idea what it is?
Any ideas on how to start testing for the problems without electrocuting myself?
I've now managed to pack it all together into the footwell with the car working I'm nervous to take it all out in case the car doesn't start again.
So a few questions (car is a 1992 PreCat):
What do the 2 silver Bosch floating relays do?
My handbook says the ignition relay is a RLFK30, but when I removed it, it was a similar, but had much bigger spades on two of the terminals. Any idea what it is?
Any ideas on how to start testing for the problems without electrocuting myself?
I've now managed to pack it all together into the footwell with the car working I'm nervous to take it all out in case the car doesn't start again.
Hmmmm....
Seems like there is no spark, so may not be that, or it could be the ECU relay.....
Symptoms are:
Car starts. Runs no problem. Stop car put the battery box and loom back in to the footwell. Car starts, drive car. Stop car. Car fails to start.
Move looms and fiddle with all relays, car starts.
Ideas???
Seems like there is no spark, so may not be that, or it could be the ECU relay.....
Symptoms are:
Car starts. Runs no problem. Stop car put the battery box and loom back in to the footwell. Car starts, drive car. Stop car. Car fails to start.
Move looms and fiddle with all relays, car starts.
Ideas???
You would appear to have an intermittent connection in the connections to the ECU, relays or the fuses.
Worth pulling it all out, starting the engine and try moving cables/relays etc. one at a time to see if you can isolate the problem. Not unknown for the loom connecting the ECU to loose a few connections in its plug/socket as pushing it all back in place can put tension on the cables.
Intermittent connections are a pain in the arse.
Worth pulling it all out, starting the engine and try moving cables/relays etc. one at a time to see if you can isolate the problem. Not unknown for the loom connecting the ECU to loose a few connections in its plug/socket as pushing it all back in place can put tension on the cables.
Intermittent connections are a pain in the arse.
If the fuel pump relays are suspect a read of this thread may be of some help:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Early pre-cat Griffiths have two relays in the fuel pump circuit, one at R8 on the fuse/relay panel the other is in the floating loom (metal case). HTH
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Early pre-cat Griffiths have two relays in the fuel pump circuit, one at R8 on the fuse/relay panel the other is in the floating loom (metal case). HTH
Wildfire said:
Hmmmm....
Seems like there is no spark, so may not be that, or it could be the ECU relay.....
Symptoms are:
Car starts. Runs no problem. Stop car put the battery box and loom back in to the footwell. Car starts, drive car. Stop car. Car fails to start.
Move looms and fiddle with all relays, car starts.
Ideas???
So it runs fine with the cables all pushed back but then fails to start after a run? Has the engine got nice and hot during the run? Seems like there is no spark, so may not be that, or it could be the ECU relay.....
Symptoms are:
Car starts. Runs no problem. Stop car put the battery box and loom back in to the footwell. Car starts, drive car. Stop car. Car fails to start.
Move looms and fiddle with all relays, car starts.
Ideas???
When you say it doesn't start.
Does it turn over on the starter?
Do the ignition lights come on?
Does the fuel pump prime?
You mentioned you are not getting a spark which implies that it's turning over and the fuel pump is priming.
I'm just wondering if the issue is something else caused by heat from the engine, and the fiddling around with the loom is allowing the heat issue to dissipate, I assume the bonnet is open.
A couple of possible candidates are the coil and amplifier both of which can will cause no spark.
Colin RedGriff said:
So it runs fine with the cables all pushed back but then fails to start after a run? Has the engine got nice and hot during the run?
When you say it doesn't start.
Does it turn over on the starter?
Do the ignition lights come on?
Does the fuel pump prime?
You mentioned you are not getting a spark which implies that it's turning over and the fuel pump is priming.
I'm just wondering if the issue is something else caused by heat from the engine, and the fiddling around with the loom is allowing the heat issue to dissipate, I assume the bonnet is open.
A couple of possible candidates are the coil and amplifier both of which can will cause no spark.
Ah in my haste I wasn't clear, apologies.When you say it doesn't start.
Does it turn over on the starter?
Do the ignition lights come on?
Does the fuel pump prime?
You mentioned you are not getting a spark which implies that it's turning over and the fuel pump is priming.
I'm just wondering if the issue is something else caused by heat from the engine, and the fiddling around with the loom is allowing the heat issue to dissipate, I assume the bonnet is open.
A couple of possible candidates are the coil and amplifier both of which can will cause no spark.
It's definitely not the hot start issue as I have never had that issue in 12 years.
It runs fine, so I push all the cables back in. Then doesn't restart.
Fuel pump primes, all the ignition lights come on, car cranks over, fuel goes into the bores (I can tell by wet plugs). Just no starting. Feels like no spark.
I suspect Loubaruch is on to something with a bad connection to the ECU
I really hate electrics!I'm going to have a go at replacing the relays, I just need to get the right one. Currently all is packed away and the car runs fine.
Any idea where/what relay the ignition one is? As above, manual says RFLK 30 but it has 2 larger spades on it??
The ignition relay is not specific to starting....
It switches on all the high powered stuff inside the fusebox when you turn the ignition on ~ ie fans wipers ecu dash .....
It is just a standard 70A relay, they don't have variants like the smaller 25/30A relays just the one kind.
FYI,
if fuel pump primes ~ ecu is powered.
if nothing else happens more than likely the ecu is not getting crank trigger info ie ign amp / coil tells it engine is turning (but once a faulty tacho caused similar effect on an old Griff and it sprang into life when tacho was disconnected?)
No fuel pump priming ~ start tracing power to ecu with multimeter.
It switches on all the high powered stuff inside the fusebox when you turn the ignition on ~ ie fans wipers ecu dash .....
It is just a standard 70A relay, they don't have variants like the smaller 25/30A relays just the one kind.
FYI,
if fuel pump primes ~ ecu is powered.
if nothing else happens more than likely the ecu is not getting crank trigger info ie ign amp / coil tells it engine is turning (but once a faulty tacho caused similar effect on an old Griff and it sprang into life when tacho was disconnected?)
No fuel pump priming ~ start tracing power to ecu with multimeter.
Chris,
Just because you haven't had the hot start issue in 12 years doesn't mean it can't be that so dont rule it out.
Maybe you can tell us the circumstances when it does start? ie cold, wires all out etc.
Does it stall or misfire when running?
I hate electrics too - they're a bloody nightmare. Mine has a mix of pre cat and 500 wiring so maybe the worst case scenario.
FFG
Just because you haven't had the hot start issue in 12 years doesn't mean it can't be that so dont rule it out.
Maybe you can tell us the circumstances when it does start? ie cold, wires all out etc.
Does it stall or misfire when running?
I hate electrics too - they're a bloody nightmare. Mine has a mix of pre cat and 500 wiring so maybe the worst case scenario.
FFG
FlipFlopGriff said:
Chris,
Just because you haven't had the hot start issue in 12 years doesn't mean it can't be that so dont rule it out.
Maybe you can tell us the circumstances when it does start? ie cold, wires all out etc.
Does it stall or misfire when running?
I hate electrics too - they're a bloody nightmare. Mine has a mix of pre cat and 500 wiring so maybe the worst case scenario.
FFG
It has previously started from cold, and with the wires out. Before the dead battery (which caused the last wires and battery out) it ran fine, started from hot or cold.Just because you haven't had the hot start issue in 12 years doesn't mean it can't be that so dont rule it out.
Maybe you can tell us the circumstances when it does start? ie cold, wires all out etc.
Does it stall or misfire when running?
I hate electrics too - they're a bloody nightmare. Mine has a mix of pre cat and 500 wiring so maybe the worst case scenario.
FFG
After replacing the battery it started from cold with wires out, then refused to start with the wires in after 10 min of running.
I then stupidly flooded the car (wet plugs), the car rand with wires out the next day. Went for a long drive, nice and hot, stopped, 20 min break and no issues starting or running.
This weekend, wires out, started, put wires in, started again. So put the carpet back in (with car running) drove to the petrol station, all good. Then no start. Pulled wires out (and wiggled every relay), started up, cleared the cylinders or unburnt fuel and no issues.
Put battery back in, started, put wires back in, started, put carpet back, started (fingers crossed) I haven't touched it since.
So frustrating!!!
Thanks for all the help guys!
This might help. It might not.
I had the "hot start" problem when i first had my car. The first day. Parked in town, popped into a shop for five minutes, came out. Wouldn't start.
Called out TVR guy, he arrives 15 minutes later. Car starts.
I had the problem a few more times, and eventually realised that it happened when the car was warm and had been running slowly, and that leaving it 15 minutes when It wouldn't start meant it cooled down enough, or the hot wiring did, for it to start. 15 minutes was the key time.
Your issue could be the hot start problem - ie your immobiliser could be on the way out and getting temperature sensitive. Having the knitting out in the footwell helps keep it cooler.
I have a spare hot start mod. I have had my immobiliser Carl Bakered, so don't need it any more. You can have it if you like, just PM me your address - all you need is the instructions, which i don't have, but I am sure someone will tell you where to wire it.
I had the "hot start" problem when i first had my car. The first day. Parked in town, popped into a shop for five minutes, came out. Wouldn't start.
Called out TVR guy, he arrives 15 minutes later. Car starts.
I had the problem a few more times, and eventually realised that it happened when the car was warm and had been running slowly, and that leaving it 15 minutes when It wouldn't start meant it cooled down enough, or the hot wiring did, for it to start. 15 minutes was the key time.
Your issue could be the hot start problem - ie your immobiliser could be on the way out and getting temperature sensitive. Having the knitting out in the footwell helps keep it cooler.
I have a spare hot start mod. I have had my immobiliser Carl Bakered, so don't need it any more. You can have it if you like, just PM me your address - all you need is the instructions, which i don't have, but I am sure someone will tell you where to wire it.
Plan B said:
I had the exact same experience as QBee. One new immobiliser later and all was fixed. This is a well known problem caused by TVR wrongly wiring the Meta immob at original fitment time causing deterioration of one of the relays in the meta box.
Is the wiring on the Meta the same/similar to the Gemini?Wildfire said:
Plan B said:
I had the exact same experience as QBee. One new immobiliser later and all was fixed. This is a well known problem caused by TVR wrongly wiring the Meta immob at original fitment time causing deterioration of one of the relays in the meta box.
Is the wiring on the Meta the same/similar to the Gemini?ISTR the pre-cat Geminis are even different from the subsequent Gemini installations in the area of that 'central locking cum immobilizer box' of the Gemini?
spend said:
Wildfire said:
Plan B said:
I had the exact same experience as QBee. One new immobiliser later and all was fixed. This is a well known problem caused by TVR wrongly wiring the Meta immob at original fitment time causing deterioration of one of the relays in the meta box.
Is the wiring on the Meta the same/similar to the Gemini?ISTR the pre-cat Geminis are even different from the subsequent Gemini installations in the area of that 'central locking cum immobilizer box' of the Gemini?
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