Griff 500 cutting out issue
Discussion
After being layed up for the Winter I took the car on a 10 mile round trip for fuel without issue, 2 days later I set off for a TVR long weekend, I drove for 3 miles and pulled up at a set of lights and found that the car would not idle so I had to sort of hold on the throttle. I then drove about 60 miles no problem, then the car misfired a couple of times on a steady throttle....I was then able to drive the next 40 miles or so without issue. The following day we were on a convoy run and after about 20 miles the car started misfiring again, I had to keep changing down as there was nothing above idle so I quickly pulled into a car park.....the car was idling fine, I had a look under the bonnet gave it a couple of rev ups, everything seemed fine so we set off again. I probably did another 150 miles over the weekend without any more issues.
Tonight I did a 35 mile round trip, on the way back the car cut out and died, the car would start and immediately die, I spent a few minutes trying to push the car as I was on a bad bend on the road.....I then tried to start the car and everything was back to normal, the car ran perfectly all the way home. One thing I did notice is that the the ignition light was lightly glowing. Maybe the 100 amp fuse? ....anyone had a similar experience ??
Tonight I did a 35 mile round trip, on the way back the car cut out and died, the car would start and immediately die, I spent a few minutes trying to push the car as I was on a bad bend on the road.....I then tried to start the car and everything was back to normal, the car ran perfectly all the way home. One thing I did notice is that the the ignition light was lightly glowing. Maybe the 100 amp fuse? ....anyone had a similar experience ??
to many possibilities to pinpoint anything.
But
100amp fuse is only in the charge circuit so if it was blown or fractured (more common) the battery would go flat. During that time the ignition light would still perform normally until such time as the battery volts dropped then it would glow.
Rovergauge should show you the battery volts so next time it starts to play up or the ignition light glows check the volts. If the ignition amp is failing you may also see the rev counter drop both on the dash and on rovergauge.
Steve
But
100amp fuse is only in the charge circuit so if it was blown or fractured (more common) the battery would go flat. During that time the ignition light would still perform normally until such time as the battery volts dropped then it would glow.
Rovergauge should show you the battery volts so next time it starts to play up or the ignition light glows check the volts. If the ignition amp is failing you may also see the rev counter drop both on the dash and on rovergauge.
Steve
Thanks for the replies so far, as had been said there are so many possibilities. On one hand I’m glad that the car hasn’t let me down and so far has got me home, but on the other if it did break down completely the fault would be easier to find!!
After giving it some thought through the night I’m erring towards the fuel side.....when it cut out yesterday every time I tried to start it - it would fire then die as though it had run out of fuel.
Probably completely wrong but I think I’ll start with the fuel side first. The charging light might be a separate issue??
After giving it some thought through the night I’m erring towards the fuel side.....when it cut out yesterday every time I tried to start it - it would fire then die as though it had run out of fuel.
Probably completely wrong but I think I’ll start with the fuel side first. The charging light might be a separate issue??
The last time I had the charging light on (dimly) while driving at speed (I noticed it at 120 mph on the Park Straight at Cadwell Park) it turned out my alternator was in its final death throes. I did manage to get the 45 miles home ok..
On a different occasion I had the stalling when warm problem for a few weeks, but I don't remember the charging light being on then. That turned out to be a temperature sensitive stepper motor.
On a different occasion I had the stalling when warm problem for a few weeks, but I don't remember the charging light being on then. That turned out to be a temperature sensitive stepper motor.
QBee said:
The last time I had the charging light on (dimly) while driving at speed (I noticed it at 120 mph on the Park Straight at Cadwell Park) it turned out my alternator was in its final death throes..
My thoughts as well, when my light started to flicker I checked the alternator and it was duff, OP what does your ammeter show? As stated the 100amp fuse covers the charging side so the car will run until battery drained. Sorry, no other ideas...I've had my Griff coming up for 4 years now, for the first 2 yrs, I had loads of issues, cutting out being the main one
It would mostly happen when stationary, so at a set of traffic lights for example, I'd learn how to detect when a stall was coming and would apply a little throttle.
It also happened on a dual carriageway once in the fast lane, and I had to coast to the side, that required a new pair of underpants
It would also sometimes not know where to idle properly, and would be searching, oscillating up and down by itself, and would ultimately stall
All of what I experienced was intermittent, was hard to diagnose, and not necessarily attributable to one cause, various things were changed, but ultimately, I went for a new MBE and wiring harness etc - and have never looked back since! It does away with a fe things such as the stepper motor
I put it down to it being a 20+ year old car, it gets very hot under the bonnet, and over time this would cause fatigue to various components
I couldn't trust it for so long, no knowing whether I'd get back home after a run, telling the wife to leave her phone on, but now I do trust it and it takes away a lot of that anxiety
Good luck!
It would mostly happen when stationary, so at a set of traffic lights for example, I'd learn how to detect when a stall was coming and would apply a little throttle.
It also happened on a dual carriageway once in the fast lane, and I had to coast to the side, that required a new pair of underpants
It would also sometimes not know where to idle properly, and would be searching, oscillating up and down by itself, and would ultimately stall
All of what I experienced was intermittent, was hard to diagnose, and not necessarily attributable to one cause, various things were changed, but ultimately, I went for a new MBE and wiring harness etc - and have never looked back since! It does away with a fe things such as the stepper motor
I put it down to it being a 20+ year old car, it gets very hot under the bonnet, and over time this would cause fatigue to various components
I couldn't trust it for so long, no knowing whether I'd get back home after a run, telling the wife to leave her phone on, but now I do trust it and it takes away a lot of that anxiety
Good luck!
Jurgen Schmidt said:
All of what I experienced was intermittent, was hard to diagnose, and not necessarily attributable to one cause, various things were changed, but ultimately, I went for a new MBE and wiring harness etc - and have never looked back since! It does away with a fe things such as the stepper motor
I put it down to it being a 20+ year old car, it gets very hot under the bonnet, and over time this would cause fatigue to various components
I couldn't trust it for so long, no knowing whether I'd get back home after a run, telling the wife to leave her phone on, but now I do trust it and it takes away a lot of that anxiety
Good luck!
This is exactly how I felt. It got to the point where I had to cure it or sell it.I put it down to it being a 20+ year old car, it gets very hot under the bonnet, and over time this would cause fatigue to various components
I couldn't trust it for so long, no knowing whether I'd get back home after a run, telling the wife to leave her phone on, but now I do trust it and it takes away a lot of that anxiety
Good luck!
I went for the Canems ECU but what a difference, beyond my wildest hopes! The love hate relationship is over...I just love it now.
I’ve just replaced my fuel filter with a new one and cleaned up the fuel pump spade terminals which were fairly clean. I blew through the old filter with low pressure compressed air and there wasn’t any restrictions so I’m confident it wasn’t a problem. I next had a look at the multi plug connector that is beside the passenger seat , the plug seems to have been packed with what looks like Vaseline or similar so perhaps there hs been an issue there sometime in the cars past, so I will clean it up with Electroclean tomorrow and see how that looks.
I’ve just been out to the garage to see what the charging light was like in the dark.....at first the engine would not start, it would fire but die instantly just like it did last night.....then I remembered that I’d disconnected the plug by the passenger seat!! Doh... but maybe I’ve found that there is either an issue with the pump or with the wiring by default!!
As for the charging light it would allume dimly as soon as the engine starts. Should the light not be on as soon as the ignition is switched on and go out when the car starts?? My light is out until it lights dimly when the engine starts....
I’ve just been out to the garage to see what the charging light was like in the dark.....at first the engine would not start, it would fire but die instantly just like it did last night.....then I remembered that I’d disconnected the plug by the passenger seat!! Doh... but maybe I’ve found that there is either an issue with the pump or with the wiring by default!!
As for the charging light it would allume dimly as soon as the engine starts. Should the light not be on as soon as the ignition is switched on and go out when the car starts?? My light is out until it lights dimly when the engine starts....
Edited by das2000m on Thursday 21st March 19:47
Ignition amp is easy to diagnose- next time it cuts out look at the tacho asap whilst the engine is still spinning as you slow down- if its at zero, you have lost the ignition pulse from the Ignition amp. Its too slow on the starter to register on the tacho, so this must be done on a spinning engine.
I've seen similar odd cut outs like this where debris gets drawn into the fuel tank outlet and blocks the flow. Once the engine dies, and the pump stops drawing fuel, the debris drops away from the outlet, so it runs fine again until the next blockage. If you can run RoverGauge in the passenger seat- then fuel starvation will show up as massive "add fuel " on the short term trim- its likely to stop cycling as well
If you suspect the 12v supply- Id wire a bulb on a couple of long leads on the positive of coil and earth and have it on the dash and see if it goes out when the engine dies.
I've seen similar odd cut outs like this where debris gets drawn into the fuel tank outlet and blocks the flow. Once the engine dies, and the pump stops drawing fuel, the debris drops away from the outlet, so it runs fine again until the next blockage. If you can run RoverGauge in the passenger seat- then fuel starvation will show up as massive "add fuel " on the short term trim- its likely to stop cycling as well
If you suspect the 12v supply- Id wire a bulb on a couple of long leads on the positive of coil and earth and have it on the dash and see if it goes out when the engine dies.
Edited by blitzracing on Thursday 21st March 20:11
blitzracing said:
Ignition amp is easy to diagnose- next time it cuts out look at the tacho asap whilst the engine is still spinning as you slow down- if its at zero, you have lost the ignition pulse from the Ignition amp. Its too slow on the starter to register on the tacho, so this must be done on a spinning engine.
I've seen similar odd cut outs like this where debris gets drawn into the fuel tank outlet and blocks the flow. Once the engine dies, and the pump stops drawing fuel, the debris drops away from the outlet, so it runs fine again until the next blockage. If you can run RoverGauge in the passenger seat- then fuel starvation will show up as massive "add fuel " on the short term trim- its likely to stop cycling as well
If you suspect the 12v supply- Id wire a bulb on a couple of long leads on the positive of coil and earth and have it on the dash and see if it goes out when the engine dies.
Thanks for the info .....very helpful I've seen similar odd cut outs like this where debris gets drawn into the fuel tank outlet and blocks the flow. Once the engine dies, and the pump stops drawing fuel, the debris drops away from the outlet, so it runs fine again until the next blockage. If you can run RoverGauge in the passenger seat- then fuel starvation will show up as massive "add fuel " on the short term trim- its likely to stop cycling as well
If you suspect the 12v supply- Id wire a bulb on a couple of long leads on the positive of coil and earth and have it on the dash and see if it goes out when the engine dies.
Edited by blitzracing on Thursday 21st March 20:11
The ignition warning light problem could be worn alternator brushes
Try cranking the engine over a little at a time without starting it and see if the ignition warning light is coming on and going off as you turn the alternator by cranking, if the light is on/off while cranking you will need to look at the brushes and slip-ring
Try cranking the engine over a little at a time without starting it and see if the ignition warning light is coming on and going off as you turn the alternator by cranking, if the light is on/off while cranking you will need to look at the brushes and slip-ring
Belle427 said:
Ignition amp failure on my Chimp was a large misfire now and again, when the misfire occurred the rev counter dropped to zero.
It would start and drive normally for a while and then a misfire.
I have ordered a replacement from TVR parts along with a coil. I’m kind of thinking that I should run the car until it happens again just to see if it is the I.A. otherwise I will never know what the issue was. I’ve cleaned up the multi plug connection for the fuel pump and closed the female pins a little to hopefully make a tighter connection. ( a friend had a similar issue with a Griff misfiring)It would start and drive normally for a while and then a misfire.
There are several multiway plug/sockets in the fuel pump circuit any one of which could cause your problem.
This may help:
http://www.bertram-hill.com/fuel-pump-schematic.ht...
This may help:
http://www.bertram-hill.com/fuel-pump-schematic.ht...
Loubaruch said:
There are several multiway plug/sockets in the fuel pump circuit any one of which could cause your problem.
This may help:
http://www.bertram-hill.com/fuel-pump-schematic.ht...
Thanks for that, I haven’t seen that before.This may help:
http://www.bertram-hill.com/fuel-pump-schematic.ht...
I’ve done some battery checks to see what Voltage the Alternator was putting out.
12.76V static,
14.13 engine running.
13.75 all lights on.
Seems ok to me so no explanation as to why the charging light is dimly lit when the lights are on?
I’ve messaged Mark at blitz racing as I have a query about my rev counter bouncing 250 revs when idling ( he had told me to watch the rev counter next time the engine cuts out ) I’m thinking that as the rev counter gets its signal via the ignition amplifier maybe it’s not pulsing correctly?? ......maybe wishful thinking on my part!!
Any thoughts??
12.76V static,
14.13 engine running.
13.75 all lights on.
Seems ok to me so no explanation as to why the charging light is dimly lit when the lights are on?
I’ve messaged Mark at blitz racing as I have a query about my rev counter bouncing 250 revs when idling ( he had told me to watch the rev counter next time the engine cuts out ) I’m thinking that as the rev counter gets its signal via the ignition amplifier maybe it’s not pulsing correctly?? ......maybe wishful thinking on my part!!
Any thoughts??
The voltage readings are good news for your alternator. Your planned coil and amp swap is a good idea.
The only other thing I can think of that could put the charging light on like that is a cracked 100 amp fuse.
It can crack but still work most of the time.
But possibly the current can jump the crack until the current transferring to the battery through this fuse drops thanks to the lights being on.
Guessing, but it's an easy check - the fuse is under the car in the middle of a thick wire, and is situated driver's side alongside the sump, in a black fuse holder case. Unbolt the fuse (8 or 10mm socket, cannot remember which) and see if it comes out in one piece or two.
The only other thing I can think of that could put the charging light on like that is a cracked 100 amp fuse.
It can crack but still work most of the time.
But possibly the current can jump the crack until the current transferring to the battery through this fuse drops thanks to the lights being on.
Guessing, but it's an easy check - the fuse is under the car in the middle of a thick wire, and is situated driver's side alongside the sump, in a black fuse holder case. Unbolt the fuse (8 or 10mm socket, cannot remember which) and see if it comes out in one piece or two.
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