Business Waste Provider onerous Contract
Discussion
Signed a waste contract over 6 years ago with a Waste Services supplier based in Wrexham.
Despite me giving them 3 months written notice as they required as my business is closing due to retirement I got a phone call today (final bin collection was 2 days ago ) claiming that it is in their t&c that the contract automatically rolls into a 3 year rolling contract once the initial 24 month contract had expired.
I was not aware as the original contract was signed on an iPad with their sales force in my business premises 7 yrs ago.
The rollover clause was not mentioned and probably hidden deep within the t&c’s. I was not given notice of this renewal.
They are wanting the remainder of the 3 year contract to be paid up which is around £500
If you do a search on this provider it seems this provides a morally dubious income stream for them and they rely on fleecing contract termination fees from long-standing customers who have unwittingly fallen foul of their onerous renewal contract..
The key issue for me is auto -renewals without clear notice, longer auto renewal periods than the initial contract could be construed as onerous and disproportionate exit charges..
They have now offered to take my bin away for the reduced sum of £100 but it sticks in my throat..
Should I push back or pay up ?
Despite me giving them 3 months written notice as they required as my business is closing due to retirement I got a phone call today (final bin collection was 2 days ago ) claiming that it is in their t&c that the contract automatically rolls into a 3 year rolling contract once the initial 24 month contract had expired.
I was not aware as the original contract was signed on an iPad with their sales force in my business premises 7 yrs ago.
The rollover clause was not mentioned and probably hidden deep within the t&c’s. I was not given notice of this renewal.
They are wanting the remainder of the 3 year contract to be paid up which is around £500
If you do a search on this provider it seems this provides a morally dubious income stream for them and they rely on fleecing contract termination fees from long-standing customers who have unwittingly fallen foul of their onerous renewal contract..
The key issue for me is auto -renewals without clear notice, longer auto renewal periods than the initial contract could be construed as onerous and disproportionate exit charges..
They have now offered to take my bin away for the reduced sum of £100 but it sticks in my throat..
Should I push back or pay up ?
Are you saying the £500 has been reduced to £100?
If so, pay it and head off to retirement.
To be honest, I'd say the same if it were the £500. There are tests on whether the terms meet minimum clarity levels which may find in your favour but do you want to bog yourself down in all that this close to retirement for the sake of £500?
Seek retribution by advising all other clients, existing and potential, by highlighting the matter on whatever platform you deem appropriate.
If so, pay it and head off to retirement.
To be honest, I'd say the same if it were the £500. There are tests on whether the terms meet minimum clarity levels which may find in your favour but do you want to bog yourself down in all that this close to retirement for the sake of £500?
Seek retribution by advising all other clients, existing and potential, by highlighting the matter on whatever platform you deem appropriate.
I've encountered this before with a waste removal company, exactly the same thing. Automatic renewal past a certain time. What was worse was that upon closing, the contract stated the remaining balance would be worked out on the previous 3 months use and we'd had a load of extra waste removed as we were closing the site.
They did negotiate it down though in the end and we actually managed to transfer the contract elsewhere, but it was one of the bigger companies so I imagine this is standard practice. Did think it very underhanded though.
They did negotiate it down though in the end and we actually managed to transfer the contract elsewhere, but it was one of the bigger companies so I imagine this is standard practice. Did think it very underhanded though.
Pay it, move on. £500 isn't a huge amount, £100 you could spend on a night out!! Granted it is the principle of the whole thing. You let them know - they accepted and then reneged or didn't bother to tell you at the time.
Contact Trading Standards and anyone else, as above and inform them of the onerous contract and leave them to fight the good fight. Maybe Watchdog as well, others may well have been in a similar position. There may even be a standards board/ombudsman or similar - contact them and leave them to it. Provide as much detail as you've got and dates and names and forget!!
Contact Trading Standards and anyone else, as above and inform them of the onerous contract and leave them to fight the good fight. Maybe Watchdog as well, others may well have been in a similar position. There may even be a standards board/ombudsman or similar - contact them and leave them to it. Provide as much detail as you've got and dates and names and forget!!
Well, you could ask them to send you a signed copy of the contract with the relevant part highlighted... but I would simply reply with a copy of the letter you sent them three months ago as per the contract, close down as planned and keep the £100.
The fact they've chopped the fee by 80% suggests to me that they know the matter is unenforceable and are just trying to grab a swift £100.
The fact they've chopped the fee by 80% suggests to me that they know the matter is unenforceable and are just trying to grab a swift £100.
Tisy said:
eps said:
Pay it, move on. £500 isn't a huge amount,
This is exactly the attitude they rely on to make free money. 
I pity the poor employee who’s job it is to inform unsuspecting customers..it took a fair bit of restraint for me to be civil.
Simpo Two said:
Well, you could ask them to send you a signed copy of the contract with the relevant part highlighted... but I would simply reply with a copy of the letter you sent them three months ago as per the contract, close down as planned and keep the £100.
The fact they've chopped the fee by 80% suggests to me that they know the matter is unenforceable and are just trying to grab a swift £100.
I’m awaiting a copy of the contract and I totally agree with your point. It reeks of bad practice AFAIAC. The fact they've chopped the fee by 80% suggests to me that they know the matter is unenforceable and are just trying to grab a swift £100.
eps said:
Please quote everything I said not part of it...
Well this is the other part, but I don't think the OP wants to start a war or spend time fighting one, just to retire with his wallet intact.eps said:
Contact Trading Standards and anyone else, as above and inform them of the onerous contract and leave them to fight the good fight. Maybe Watchdog as well, others may well have been in a similar position. There may even be a standards board/ombudsman or similar - contact them and leave them to it. Provide as much detail as you've got and dates and names and forget!!
Mr Overheads said:
If you are closing down a Ltd company, contract is with the Ltd and when it closes debt dies with it in effect.
Unless I'm mistaken, the only way you can avoid debt is through liquidation, a process that will determine if there is sufficient money to settle debts and pay them if there is - most likely under a Member's Voluntary Liquidation arrangement. I'm pretty certain you can't just close down a company and walk away from any liabilities it may have at that point.StevieBee said:
Mr Overheads said:
If you are closing down a Ltd company, contract is with the Ltd and when it closes debt dies with it in effect.
Unless I'm mistaken, the only way you can avoid debt is through liquidation, a process that will determine if there is sufficient money to settle debts and pay them if there is - most likely under a Member's Voluntary Liquidation arrangement. I'm pretty certain you can't just close down a company and walk away from any liabilities it may have at that point.eps said:
StevieBee said:
Mr Overheads said:
If you are closing down a Ltd company, contract is with the Ltd and when it closes debt dies with it in effect.
Unless I'm mistaken, the only way you can avoid debt is through liquidation, a process that will determine if there is sufficient money to settle debts and pay them if there is - most likely under a Member's Voluntary Liquidation arrangement. I'm pretty certain you can't just close down a company and walk away from any liabilities it may have at that point.Look at all the companies that folded after receiving £50k Bounce Back Loans (there's another thread on that) or fold after an adverse court outcome so they don't have to pay the awarded amount.
Mr Overheads said:
But if the company has no cash left, the waste co aren't going to chase a defunct company for £100. The OP hasn't said if it's a company or soletrader nor if it is a Ltd by what method he's closing it down.
Look at all the companies that folded after receiving £50k Bounce Back Loans (there's another thread on that) or fold after an adverse court outcome so they don't have to pay the awarded amount.
I agree. If they want to play silly buggers fight fire with fire.Look at all the companies that folded after receiving £50k Bounce Back Loans (there's another thread on that) or fold after an adverse court outcome so they don't have to pay the awarded amount.
The same way you might be tempted to pay £100 or £500 to make it go away they aren't chasing a closed Ltd for it.
Mr Overheads said:
eps said:
StevieBee said:
Mr Overheads said:
If you are closing down a Ltd company, contract is with the Ltd and when it closes debt dies with it in effect.
Unless I'm mistaken, the only way you can avoid debt is through liquidation, a process that will determine if there is sufficient money to settle debts and pay them if there is - most likely under a Member's Voluntary Liquidation arrangement. I'm pretty certain you can't just close down a company and walk away from any liabilities it may have at that point.Look at all the companies that folded after receiving £50k Bounce Back Loans (there's another thread on that) or fold after an adverse court outcome so they don't have to pay the awarded amount.
In the normal course of things, you cannot legally use liquidation as a means to avoid debt if there exists the means to settle those debts. So if a company has £10k sitting in an account and invoices totalling £10k to pay, the owner can't pay himself a £10k dividend then liquidate the company. The Liquidator will flag this up with the Insolvency Service who will demand that the owner repay that amount to the business or liquidator in order that the outstanding invoices are settled.
The company is very solvent and a MVL is being processed at the moment so it is not possible to walk away.
I’m still awaiting a copy of the original contract which I suspect if I wanted to dig my heels in could be construed as onerous in a court of law..
• silent rollovers
• long lock-ins
• total balance demands
Clauses that bind a customer long after the expected end of a contract
• Without clear, prominent explanation
• And without active renewal consent
Could be construed to be unfair and unenforceable and are commercially unreasonable.
Whether we are talking about £500 ( the balance of the auto renewed contract) or £100 (the offer to reduce the debt and pick up my now no longer needed bin) is irrelevant to me. It’s more the principle of their modus operandi and this is borne out by the hundreds of similar reviews on trutpilot etc etc.
As I’m now retired and have more time on my hands I’m minded to call their bluff!
Bunch of Feckers!
I’m still awaiting a copy of the original contract which I suspect if I wanted to dig my heels in could be construed as onerous in a court of law..
• silent rollovers
• long lock-ins
• total balance demands
Clauses that bind a customer long after the expected end of a contract
• Without clear, prominent explanation
• And without active renewal consent
Could be construed to be unfair and unenforceable and are commercially unreasonable.
Whether we are talking about £500 ( the balance of the auto renewed contract) or £100 (the offer to reduce the debt and pick up my now no longer needed bin) is irrelevant to me. It’s more the principle of their modus operandi and this is borne out by the hundreds of similar reviews on trutpilot etc etc.
As I’m now retired and have more time on my hands I’m minded to call their bluff!
Bunch of Feckers!
StevieBee said:
In the normal course of things, you cannot legally use liquidation as a means to avoid debt if there exists the means to settle those debts. So if a company has £10k sitting in an account and invoices totalling £10k to pay, the owner can't pay himself a £10k dividend then liquidate the company. The Liquidator will flag this up with the Insolvency Service who will demand that the owner repay that amount to the business or liquidator in order that the outstanding invoices are settled.
In my experience it's extremely easy for a Company to effectively transfer all its assets to another (related) company by paying an invoice for "Consultancy services" and then wind up the first company, leaving all creditors high and dry,Gassing Station | Business | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff