Discussion
After 'another' hard day at work, I wondered if I could ask a general question to other people.
I am salary paid, which is the employers get out clause for paying overtime, I think.
I am supposed to do 40 hours a week for said sum and am now in year 2 of a contract. I work an average of 48 hours per week, obvoiusly dont get paid for this overtime.
This overtime is neceassary to get my job done. After today, being the first day of Uni term, its looking like I need to be working 10+ hours a day to get my job done, spoke to boss today about this and he basically said that my 40 paid hours are the maximum the contract can go to. If I said 'stuff ya, Im just doing my 40' then my job will not be done, and I need to do my job to make the unit run, full stop.
Today I walked in at 7am, worked until 6pm, no break, no lunch, its a manual job so 95% of today was on feet.
Boss's way of thinking would be, I get paid to do my job as a whole if its not working then I need to alter something (i.e. Its my problem to sort it out)
It wouldnt be so bad if my travelling time was not 1.5 hours each way :(
I'm already on the hunt for another job, but in the meantime, do salary paid people really have any rights to be paid overtime?
My contract specifies 40 hours at said amount.
I am salary paid, which is the employers get out clause for paying overtime, I think.
I am supposed to do 40 hours a week for said sum and am now in year 2 of a contract. I work an average of 48 hours per week, obvoiusly dont get paid for this overtime.
This overtime is neceassary to get my job done. After today, being the first day of Uni term, its looking like I need to be working 10+ hours a day to get my job done, spoke to boss today about this and he basically said that my 40 paid hours are the maximum the contract can go to. If I said 'stuff ya, Im just doing my 40' then my job will not be done, and I need to do my job to make the unit run, full stop.
Today I walked in at 7am, worked until 6pm, no break, no lunch, its a manual job so 95% of today was on feet.
Boss's way of thinking would be, I get paid to do my job as a whole if its not working then I need to alter something (i.e. Its my problem to sort it out)
It wouldnt be so bad if my travelling time was not 1.5 hours each way :(
I'm already on the hunt for another job, but in the meantime, do salary paid people really have any rights to be paid overtime?
My contract specifies 40 hours at said amount.
Have you signed an opt-out of the European Working Hours Directive? If not, the maximum you can be made to work is an average of 48 hours in a 7 day period.
Working more hours that you are officially paid to do is common. I have spent the last 5 or 6 years working regular 50-60 hour weeks and being paid for 37. It may be that you get some other fringe benefits - such as holiday, sick pay, health care etc. - as a salaried employee to redress the balance somewhat.
Working more hours that you are officially paid to do is common. I have spent the last 5 or 6 years working regular 50-60 hour weeks and being paid for 37. It may be that you get some other fringe benefits - such as holiday, sick pay, health care etc. - as a salaried employee to redress the balance somewhat.
I've just had a draft contract sent through for a new job, where overtime is not paid, you're expected to do 40 hours per week and can do up to 45 hours to get the job done.
It worried me initially, but the pay is so much higher than what I'm on at the moment (obviously not in this country).
I don't know what to suggest really Mxdi. Overtime has been cut where I am right now-above the 37 hours a week, but it's not automatically expected but they're trying to PUSH that way.
So it probably IS the way things are going.....
Can you look for other jobs discreetly?
edited to add: sorry D'uh, didn't read the last part of your post until now about other jobs...
>> Edited by Marquis_Rex on Monday 10th October 20:27
It worried me initially, but the pay is so much higher than what I'm on at the moment (obviously not in this country).
I don't know what to suggest really Mxdi. Overtime has been cut where I am right now-above the 37 hours a week, but it's not automatically expected but they're trying to PUSH that way.
So it probably IS the way things are going.....
Can you look for other jobs discreetly?
edited to add: sorry D'uh, didn't read the last part of your post until now about other jobs...
>> Edited by Marquis_Rex on Monday 10th October 20:27
mxdi said:
After 'another' hard day at work, I wondered if I could ask a general question to other people.
I am salary paid, which is the employers get out clause for paying overtime, I think.
I am supposed to do 40 hours a week for said sum and am now in year 2 of a contract. I work an average of 48 hours per week, obvoiusly dont get paid for this overtime.
This overtime is neceassary to get my job done. After today, being the first day of Uni term, its looking like I need to be working 10+ hours a day to get my job done, spoke to boss today about this and he basically said that my 40 paid hours are the maximum the contract can go to. If I said 'stuff ya, Im just doing my 40' then my job will not be done, and I need to do my job to make the unit run, full stop.
Today I walked in at 7am, worked until 6pm, no break, no lunch, its a manual job so 95% of today was on feet.
Boss's way of thinking would be, I get paid to do my job as a whole if its not working then I need to alter something (i.e. Its my problem to sort it out)
It wouldnt be so bad if my travelling time was not 1.5 hours each way
I'm already on the hunt for another job, but in the meantime, do salary paid people really have any rights to be paid overtime?
My contract specifies 40 hours at said amount.
Hello Di
I have worked in a high pressure sales environment for a long time (yeah right) where you are expected to work until the job is done... regardless of hours etc.
Most companies ask you to sign an opt out agreement as has been mentioned. But they aren't really enforceable. They are there to cover the companies arse if sued but you can opt out at any point and should not have any repurcussions. If you do, that is, I believe constructive dismissal and you will sting them for thousands.
Its not fair... if its a job for more than one person, They should employ more than one person to do it.
However, if its a commission based job, you may want to consider if those extra hours mean the difference between 'making it' and not. If the answers no, tell them to poke it up their jacksie and speak to an employment lawyer.
Good luck.
Podie said:
It's the way the world seems to be working at the moment...
and it's OK when you are getting a decent wage for it, or there's some other long term reason for doing it. Hourly-paid people always used to say to me "you're doing OK for yourself aren't you? Company car, big salary blah blah". They'd shut up pretty fast when I told them the tax bill for the car and that my equivalent hourly rate based on the hours I actually did was about £4.50/hr
Podie said:
Sounds all too familiar. I'm contracted for 37.5 hours per week... I do far more than that. In fact, I can't even recall having made it to the canteen for lunch this year...
It's the way the world seems to be working at the moment...
Maybe I'm just a wuss, but when my life consists of getting home at 7pm and going to bed at 9pm to be up for 5am the next morning then I'm thinking it is pushing a little too much into the work/home life balance
mxdi said:
This overtime is neceassary to get my job done. After today, being the first day of Uni term, its looking like I need to be working 10+ hours a day to get my job done, spoke to boss today about this and he basically said that my 40 paid hours are the maximum the contract can go to. If I said 'stuff ya, Im just doing my 40' then my job will not be done, and I need to do my job to make the unit run, full stop.
Are you working for a Uni? I've never come across this for manual jobs in a Uni and even non-manual non-teaching jobs get overtime up to a certain grade. Normally, of non-teaching staff, only "senior"/supervisory/management jobs don't get overtime - I've never heard of the "salaried" scam being used to avoid paying overtime.
Prof Beard (I don't get overtime BTW
) Prof Beard said:
This overtime is neceassary to get my job done. After today, being the first day of Uni term, its looking like I need to be working 10+ hours a day to get my job done, spoke to boss today about this and he basically said that my 40 paid hours are the maximum the contract can go to. If I said 'stuff ya, Im just doing my 40' then my job will not be done, and I need to do my job to make the unit run, full stop.
Are you working for a Uni? I've never come across this for manual jobs in a Uni and even non-manual non-teaching jobs get overtime up to a certain grade. Normally, of non-teaching staff, only "senior"/supervisory/management jobs don't get overtime - I've never heard of the "salaried" scam being used to avoid paying overtime.
Prof Beard (I don't get overtime BTW
I dont work for a Uni, I work for a catering co who have franchise in Uni.
Can you trust any of your minions to take care of anything time-consuming?
Is the money exceptional? Quality of life is all, Irrespective of anything else 1.5 hours is a pretty long commute. Personally, getting a job 2 minutes away was the best thing I've done so far and I was only commuting half what you are!
Is the money exceptional? Quality of life is all, Irrespective of anything else 1.5 hours is a pretty long commute. Personally, getting a job 2 minutes away was the best thing I've done so far and I was only commuting half what you are!
Nevertheless - there is no legal justification for saying that because you are salaried you are not entitled to overtime - unless you have a contract which explicitly states this. Unless you are *very* well paid, action to "punish" you for only working your contracted hours could well amount to constructive dismissal. (ie lucrative at a tribunal)
Prof Beard
Prof Beard
Tricky one Di
Option no1 is to point out to your employer (in a calm and reasoned manner) that you can't get the job done in the contracted hours and are working lots of extra hours to get things done. It's a two-way thing and if you are overdoing things for the employer's benefit then he should try to meet you halfway by paying you extra or getting additional resource. If he refuses to do so then as you are not contracted to do the extra hours then why should you help him out?
The only problem with this is that it can bugger up any promotion prospects but would you really want to continue working for that sort of employer anyway?
Good luck with the job hunting.
T
Option no1 is to point out to your employer (in a calm and reasoned manner) that you can't get the job done in the contracted hours and are working lots of extra hours to get things done. It's a two-way thing and if you are overdoing things for the employer's benefit then he should try to meet you halfway by paying you extra or getting additional resource. If he refuses to do so then as you are not contracted to do the extra hours then why should you help him out?
The only problem with this is that it can bugger up any promotion prospects but would you really want to continue working for that sort of employer anyway?
Good luck with the job hunting.
T
Typical mickey take I'm afraid.
I think I'm right in saying that you are entitled to either overtime or time off in lieu by law. It might be worth checking this.
A lot of people are taken in by employers who promise a great career in return for putting the company first, meeting "targets", etc. The reality being that you end up doing so much time for free to do this that your true hourly rate drops to a level less than that enjoyed by the paid-overtime workers in the same company! Anyone who points this out is blackmailed by the use of the words professional and un professional into toeing the line.
I once worked at a place where the office staff were expected to "get their jobs done" because they were professional but they drove to work in cars that were noticeably shabier than those belonging to the shop floor workers. Guess why. See above.
My advice is to leave. Once an employer has started down the mickey take route they have effectively broken the spirit and the letter of your contract and have demonstrated themselves as unworthy of your trust. If you think about it they will probably already have used the word "professional" or "career" as part of a threat or as blackmail in your presence. How long are you going to listen to their lies and excuses?
I think I'm right in saying that you are entitled to either overtime or time off in lieu by law. It might be worth checking this.
A lot of people are taken in by employers who promise a great career in return for putting the company first, meeting "targets", etc. The reality being that you end up doing so much time for free to do this that your true hourly rate drops to a level less than that enjoyed by the paid-overtime workers in the same company! Anyone who points this out is blackmailed by the use of the words professional and un professional into toeing the line.
I once worked at a place where the office staff were expected to "get their jobs done" because they were professional but they drove to work in cars that were noticeably shabier than those belonging to the shop floor workers. Guess why. See above.
My advice is to leave. Once an employer has started down the mickey take route they have effectively broken the spirit and the letter of your contract and have demonstrated themselves as unworthy of your trust. If you think about it they will probably already have used the word "professional" or "career" as part of a threat or as blackmail in your presence. How long are you going to listen to their lies and excuses?
I also have a 1.5 hour commute each way - and I know it sucks!
I work to live, and will never live to work. At 5.30 I'm out that door, and it's been noticed. Seems that this doesn't stand me in good stead within my company and promotion seems miles off.
Nevermind, I'll get promotion somewhere else
I work to live, and will never live to work. At 5.30 I'm out that door, and it's been noticed. Seems that this doesn't stand me in good stead within my company and promotion seems miles off.
Nevermind, I'll get promotion somewhere else
Funnily enough my mother DOES work for a Uni (secretarial) and the p155 is taken something atrocious... bearing in mind she's 62 and should have retired two years ago. Younger members of staff keep going off sick with 'stress' 
leaving her in the plop; nobody in authority seems to see any of this of course and mam piles in the hours to try to keep on top.
I on the other hand (sorry Di
) have opted out of the ratrace and do an average 32 hours a week, with a 3-day weekend.
Not sure how long it'll last, but worst case scenario I have more than enough facilities at Wedg1e Villas to set myself up in business; in any case two more years and the mortgage should be paid off - then with any luck I'll be out the door and ball-cocks to the lot of it
leaving her in the plop; nobody in authority seems to see any of this of course and mam piles in the hours to try to keep on top. I on the other hand (sorry Di
) have opted out of the ratrace and do an average 32 hours a week, with a 3-day weekend. Not sure how long it'll last, but worst case scenario I have more than enough facilities at Wedg1e Villas to set myself up in business; in any case two more years and the mortgage should be paid off - then with any luck I'll be out the door and ball-cocks to the lot of it
Do you HAVE to work form the office? Are there some elements that can be done from home?
If they are unwilling to pay more for the work you do, you can try to negotiate some flexibilty in how you perform your job - then you get a time benefit (ie less travel time wasted) and they get the beneit of a happier, motivated worker continuing to do their job.
Negotiation working conditions is one way of keeping empoyee / employer happy when employer is unwilling to pay more ££££.
Good luck
If they are unwilling to pay more for the work you do, you can try to negotiate some flexibilty in how you perform your job - then you get a time benefit (ie less travel time wasted) and they get the beneit of a happier, motivated worker continuing to do their job.
Negotiation working conditions is one way of keeping empoyee / employer happy when employer is unwilling to pay more ££££.
Good luck
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