Running a bar ..
Discussion
Didn't a couple of guys from the IT business open a bar in RISKING IT ALL a couple of weeks ago - make no money, work all the hours they can stay awake and have more stress than they can deal with - Sounds a blast, you should go for it!
Never seems to amaze me how people who know NOTHING about a subject (I'm making an assumption here as you're asking on pistonheads) assume they can do it better!
Research, research, Research.
Never seems to amaze me how people who know NOTHING about a subject (I'm making an assumption here as you're asking on pistonheads) assume they can do it better!
Research, research, Research.
aceparts_com said:
Never seems to amaze me how people who know NOTHING about a subject (I'm making an assumption here as you're asking on pistonheads) assume they can do it better!
If everyone had that attitude nobody would do anything new ..
You don't expect me to drop everything and buy a property based on the responses to a post on PH do you? :S
If you're tired of IT then I'd totally recommend having a change of scene, especially if you have a viable alternative. You only live once etc etc
I got out of IT about two years ago and haven't missed it one bit...... Running your own business is alternatively excellent fun and terrifying!
I would echo the previous posters comments - talk to local barkeepers etc and also to see if theres any gaps in the mkt... one guy I know banned all smoking and saw his takings increase by 70%..... (mostly professional women who want a drink after work but don't want their clothes smelling)
all the best with it
I got out of IT about two years ago and haven't missed it one bit...... Running your own business is alternatively excellent fun and terrifying!
I would echo the previous posters comments - talk to local barkeepers etc and also to see if theres any gaps in the mkt... one guy I know banned all smoking and saw his takings increase by 70%..... (mostly professional women who want a drink after work but don't want their clothes smelling)
all the best with it
www.channel4.com/4money/realdeal/riskingitall/risktakers_mooch.html
Point I'm trying to make is that when one knows NOTHING, it's very easy to assume that everyone who's doing it already is missing something obvious when it merely turns out that they don't do the obvious thing for a good reason which you may only discover having ploughed hard earned money into it whereas if you knew SOMETHING about the business you may already realise that it's flawed and that your idea/angle is crap. Talking purely from experience and loss of £110K.
my 2p's worth although you may want to haggle that down to 1p.
>> Edited by aceparts_com on Wednesday 12th October 00:55
Point I'm trying to make is that when one knows NOTHING, it's very easy to assume that everyone who's doing it already is missing something obvious when it merely turns out that they don't do the obvious thing for a good reason which you may only discover having ploughed hard earned money into it whereas if you knew SOMETHING about the business you may already realise that it's flawed and that your idea/angle is crap. Talking purely from experience and loss of £110K.
my 2p's worth although you may want to haggle that down to 1p.
>> Edited by aceparts_com on Wednesday 12th October 00:55
This is something I have thought about - you often see pubs for sale that are described as 'profitably run by staff'. If this is the case then would it be reasonable to buy the place, give the bar manager a cracking incentive deal (ie x% of profits) to give them a potential income that they couldn't get elsewhere to ensure that there is the industry knowledge there and then repeat the same formula again and again.
You would quickly get the industry knowledge if you are overseeing the running of 2 or 3 pubs and the greater the number you owned the easier it would be to cover the key management in each place if they left/were sick/on holiday etc.
You would quickly get the industry knowledge if you are overseeing the running of 2 or 3 pubs and the greater the number you owned the easier it would be to cover the key management in each place if they left/were sick/on holiday etc.
A friend of the family has owned a few bars and nightclubs. There is a shed load of cash to make in a very short time, but Steve's been successful by buying up a couple of not that special clubs, put his experience to good use and built them up to be the best bar/club in town, made a lot of cash in a season then sold on for a profit.
Longer term its harder to keep the punters coming back.
Longer term its harder to keep the punters coming back.
And if you're after a more traditional pub with a contingent of "regulars", they're probably the least profitable sort of customer... There's not a lot of cash to be made from selling booze in a single pub.I've seen examples of very successful pubs and total disasters. There are a load of factors that can determine a pubs success -
i) the proprietor's personality and atitude (absolutely vital in my opinion)
ii) whether the pub is owned outright by the proprietor,
iii) whether it is owned by the proprietor but financed by borrowing
iv) whether it is a tied house and leased from a brewery
v) the level of control exercised by suppliers (there are all sorts of complicated and restrictive agreements that are sometimes insisted on by suppliers - especially in tied houses)
vi) control over staff
vii) the location of the pub and its clientele
viii) the area of the market it places itself - traditional pub, pub and restauarant, family pub etc etc etc
ix) whether the bar owner wishes to change the style of the pub compared to what it was when first acquired. This can work both ways - it may attract new customers but might scare away the old ones.
x) if a large amount of borrowing is required the repayment terms and interest charges are crucial to the pub's survival. I've seen at least one pub go under because it couldn't service its borrowings. That same pub is still operating today under a different owner - so it wasn't the pub that was at fault, it was the onerous finance terms.
i) the proprietor's personality and atitude (absolutely vital in my opinion)
ii) whether the pub is owned outright by the proprietor,
iii) whether it is owned by the proprietor but financed by borrowing
iv) whether it is a tied house and leased from a brewery
v) the level of control exercised by suppliers (there are all sorts of complicated and restrictive agreements that are sometimes insisted on by suppliers - especially in tied houses)
vi) control over staff
vii) the location of the pub and its clientele
viii) the area of the market it places itself - traditional pub, pub and restauarant, family pub etc etc etc
ix) whether the bar owner wishes to change the style of the pub compared to what it was when first acquired. This can work both ways - it may attract new customers but might scare away the old ones.
x) if a large amount of borrowing is required the repayment terms and interest charges are crucial to the pub's survival. I've seen at least one pub go under because it couldn't service its borrowings. That same pub is still operating today under a different owner - so it wasn't the pub that was at fault, it was the onerous finance terms.
Thanks all. Aceparts I do take your point, nothing would be done without good research and a sound business case.. looks like they made some big mistakes along the line (can we hire that Martin guy)
Eric; Good point, the plan would be to own the place and employ an experienced manager to start with. I think it would be an independent place rather than tied, but I haven't looked at the costings of each option.
In terms of planning, this is so far all pub talk, in more ways than one
I have seen some bars (pubs) run EXTREMELY well, and others not so well .. it's finding that good location and good concept and people will come back
Eric; Good point, the plan would be to own the place and employ an experienced manager to start with. I think it would be an independent place rather than tied, but I haven't looked at the costings of each option.
In terms of planning, this is so far all pub talk, in more ways than one
I have seen some bars (pubs) run EXTREMELY well, and others not so well .. it's finding that good location and good concept and people will come back And what you see in operation as a cusrtomer has no bearing on whether the finances are working out either.
The other aspect of pub management is the time involved. You really must LOVE it to make it successful as you can more or less wave goodbye to any kind of social life. The pub BECOMES your social life, as well as your prime source of income.
Using someone else to run a pub for you is frought with danger. The vast majority of successful pubs are managed by their owners/leaseholders - not employed managers.
The other aspect of pub management is the time involved. You really must LOVE it to make it successful as you can more or less wave goodbye to any kind of social life. The pub BECOMES your social life, as well as your prime source of income.
Using someone else to run a pub for you is frought with danger. The vast majority of successful pubs are managed by their owners/leaseholders - not employed managers.
aceparts_com said:
Didn't a couple of guys from the IT business open a bar in RISKING IT ALL a couple of weeks ago - make no money, work all the hours they can stay awake and have more stress than they can deal with - Sounds a blast, you should go for it!
Never seems to amaze me how people who know NOTHING about a subject (I'm making an assumption here as you're asking on pistonheads) assume they can do it better!
Research, research, Research.
Their mistake was that it was probably the worse part of Burgess Hill centre to put a bar. The place is quite nice, I filled it up at 11am in the morning last year before I got married across the road. Have been in there a few times and is better than the rest, just poor location.
bga said:
Didn't a couple of guys from the IT business open a bar in RISKING IT ALL a couple of weeks ago - make no money, work all the hours they can stay awake and have more stress than they can deal with - Sounds a blast, you should go for it!
Never seems to amaze me how people who know NOTHING about a subject (I'm making an assumption here as you're asking on pistonheads) assume they can do it better!
Research, research, Research.
Their mistake was that it was probably the worse part of Burgess Hill centre to put a bar. The place is quite nice, I filled it up at 11am in the morning last year before I got married across the road. Have been in there a few times and is better than the rest, just poor location.
I have not seen the program, but my bro in law runs the kitchen for a bar in buggers hole, the risking all people took the two punters into his bar to show them how it was done. He has worked in a lot of places and very few of them have proved to be goldmines.
If you need a change you don't have to make it a huge on to make a big difference to your life, there are lots of bits of IT, I seem to remember at least one of them being a little interesting
D
I saw a bar for sale a couple of years ago on holiday in Greece
Lovely place, lots of regular summer business, cheap enough to buy on a couple of credit cards in a village I consider to be heaven on earth.
Three days later it got hit by a 6.4 earthquake. It's still there, just a little further to the left.
Location, location, location...
Lovely place, lots of regular summer business, cheap enough to buy on a couple of credit cards in a village I consider to be heaven on earth.
Three days later it got hit by a 6.4 earthquake. It's still there, just a little further to the left.
Location, location, location...
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