Employee taking the p*ss, any specialists in the house?
Discussion
Chaps, i'm begging for help on this one, it's causing untold rows between SWMBO and I. She owns a beauty salon and employs 5 people. 2 on a part time basis and 3 full time. One of the full timers is, in my eyes, taking the piss and if she is left to it will bring the salon, and our house BTW down.
My wife is too scared to act because she is worried that this employees Mother will jump on her,(the Mother knows her stuff by all accounts). The saituation at home is becoming unbearable as for all my working life i've been self employed and worked on building sites where this happens.....'Your sh1t, your sacked, ta ta'.
As I write this, I am looking at a long list of problems my Wife has had with this girl. It's too long to list but lets just say it's two pages long, but no single issue warrants a dismissal. Issues such as giving clients her mobile number to ring instead of the salon (can't prove that one but we know it's happened) quality of nail painting, better than the salon attitude, swearing under her breath when she is told to do something, putting other staff down in front of clients and discussing salon business with all and sundry make her presence there unbearable to say the least.
The final straw was this evening. The Wife got home late and was not a happy bunny. It turns out that this Girl had done a top lip wax (no sniggering at the back) on the daughter of a fellow shopkeeper two doors down (a sandwich bar). The Saturday receptionist went in to get a roll and noticed that the daughter had red/swollen eyebrows. When challenged, she said that so and so had done an eyebrow shape in addition to the waxed lip. The receptionist then told the daughter that she had only charged for the waxing. The reply was that her mother would be sorting it out with the therapist!
The receptionist came back and told my Wife what had happened so of she went to have a look. It was denied by the daughter, the therapist and the Mother.
This Girl has access to the salon (keys) and the files containing Clients address' and telephone numbers.
If you have any advice good or otherwise i'd love to hear it as i'm afraid i'm getting pretty fed up with the law being on her side.
Thanks.
My wife is too scared to act because she is worried that this employees Mother will jump on her,(the Mother knows her stuff by all accounts). The saituation at home is becoming unbearable as for all my working life i've been self employed and worked on building sites where this happens.....'Your sh1t, your sacked, ta ta'.
As I write this, I am looking at a long list of problems my Wife has had with this girl. It's too long to list but lets just say it's two pages long, but no single issue warrants a dismissal. Issues such as giving clients her mobile number to ring instead of the salon (can't prove that one but we know it's happened) quality of nail painting, better than the salon attitude, swearing under her breath when she is told to do something, putting other staff down in front of clients and discussing salon business with all and sundry make her presence there unbearable to say the least.
The final straw was this evening. The Wife got home late and was not a happy bunny. It turns out that this Girl had done a top lip wax (no sniggering at the back) on the daughter of a fellow shopkeeper two doors down (a sandwich bar). The Saturday receptionist went in to get a roll and noticed that the daughter had red/swollen eyebrows. When challenged, she said that so and so had done an eyebrow shape in addition to the waxed lip. The receptionist then told the daughter that she had only charged for the waxing. The reply was that her mother would be sorting it out with the therapist!
The receptionist came back and told my Wife what had happened so of she went to have a look. It was denied by the daughter, the therapist and the Mother.
This Girl has access to the salon (keys) and the files containing Clients address' and telephone numbers.
If you have any advice good or otherwise i'd love to hear it as i'm afraid i'm getting pretty fed up with the law being on her side.
Thanks.
How long has this person been working for your wife?
If its less than 12 months she doesnt have a leg to stand on, unfair dismissal requires a continuous employment of 12 months before the dismissal I believe.
I'm no lawyer mind you.
Best of luck with your plight, does sound like an awful situation.
If its less than 12 months she doesnt have a leg to stand on, unfair dismissal requires a continuous employment of 12 months before the dismissal I believe.
I'm no lawyer mind you.
Best of luck with your plight, does sound like an awful situation.
ChelseaTractor said:
This Girl has access to the salon (keys) and the files containing Clients address' and telephone numbers.
First thing I would do is change the locks and have one set of keys that only your other half has. I would also make sure that client information is also under lock and key. By doing that you show that you have absolutely no confidence in employee and that the writing is on the wall.
It also demonstrates who is boss very quickly and if they don't like it - they can leave.
Just do it by the book, a verbal, recorded on file, then a written, then a final written, then the sack. It doesnt matter if she improves or not, as that is all subjective, as long as you have gone through the disciplinary stages correctly that in itself is evidence of unsatisfactory performance, you can still sack people. Then there is always redundancy, again go through due process, then get rid, there is no automatic last in first out law, with redundancy its up to management to decide who they can do without.
It all depends what you have in your company policy and employment contract. You must keep to the letter of this as you will get hung for it in court if you do not, even if you have her bang to rights. If it says she has broken gross misconduct rules then she is out on her ear, no comeback. If it says you must investigate any issues before giving warnings, then this must be followed. Not sure what you have to follow if you haven't laid all this down in writing.
Balmoral Green said:
Just do it by the book, a verbal, recorded on file, then a written, then a final written, then the sack. It doesnt matter if she improves or not, as that is all subjective, as long as you have gone through the disciplinary stages correctly that in itself is evidence of unsatisfactory performance, you can still sack people. Then there is always redundancy, again go through due process, then get rid, there is no automatic last in first out law, with redundancy its up to management to decide who they can do without.
Theres a new dismissal policy in place from October 2004 that must be followed or else youll lay yourself open for a wrongful/unfair dismissal claim.
If the length of service is less than 1 year then the unfair dismissal wont happen, itll get junked at the "analysing evidence before setting a date" stage.
If you dont follow the procedure (its on the CAB website aslo have a look here: www.employmenttribunals.gov.uk/default.asp) the wrongful dismissal part may apply and theyll get you on that.
Follow the dismissal procdures correctly and theyre stuffed.
hth
With hindsight, you should have given warnings for her previous actions. However, if she's been with you for more than 12 months you're gonna have to start going through the procedures. If she's been with you less than a year just get rid of her.
I would also document, as best you can, every incident that has happened so if it does get litigious you've got plenty of ammunition.
I would also document, as best you can, every incident that has happened so if it does get litigious you've got plenty of ammunition.
CatherineJ said:
I think everything that has been said is excellent advice.
1. If under 12 months you dismiss with no explanation.
2. If other 12 months then maybe it is time for a verbal warning.
4. Alternatively look into redundancy as an option.
What is option 3?
>> Edited by andygo on Saturday 11th February 21:02
I think following the path of 'dignity' for the other workers (ie bullying) is good cause to start discipinary action. Should be easy to get follow-up infractions to get you to termination.
Also the key change and confidential information withdrawl are great ideas esp. since she(?) will be on the warpath from the opening of hostilities.
Also the key change and confidential information withdrawl are great ideas esp. since she(?) will be on the warpath from the opening of hostilities.
CatherineJ said:
4. Alternatively look into redundancy as an option.
I've done that before and regretted it. The fact is, it's not redundancy and people need to be dealt with justly. Otherwise:
a) She tells all her colleagues it's redundancy and they may get worried.
b) You have to shell out redundancy payments.
c) Legally, you can't replace her for a given period of time.
She's a bad employee. We all get them occasionally and they're a right royal pain in the ar$%^. Be ruthless if you need to, but get the sacking-ball rolling.
My Mrs and her sisters are in the same business in West London. They're constantly having issues with staff.
The fact shes done more for the 'sandwich girl' than she charged her for is effectively theft.
I assume your wife has given her no authority to set prices ?
We find that pulling staff immediately up on things such as insolence, attitude, lateness, etc works well.
The other thing to do is reduced her hours, she'll leave of her own accord.
Please PM me her name ! Want to make sure we don't get sent her once you've got rid !
Off topic - does your wife use an egency to get staff ?
>> Edited by Vee on Saturday 11th February 21:23
The fact shes done more for the 'sandwich girl' than she charged her for is effectively theft.
I assume your wife has given her no authority to set prices ?
We find that pulling staff immediately up on things such as insolence, attitude, lateness, etc works well.
The other thing to do is reduced her hours, she'll leave of her own accord.
Please PM me her name ! Want to make sure we don't get sent her once you've got rid !
Off topic - does your wife use an egency to get staff ?
>> Edited by Vee on Saturday 11th February 21:23
CatherineJ said:
I think everything that has been said is excellent advice.
1. If under 12 months you dismiss with no explanation.
..........................
While several have said it , it is not quite that cut & dry as there are exceptions ,which I don't think apply here but you should be aware of just in case.
Min. 12 months does not apply in cases of discrimination eg. race , sex , religion etc
C.A.B. & ACAS web sites have details
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