Funding to do it properly...
Discussion
A brief history. I trained as a journalist, but after a few years of working on newspapers realised that I could earn far more by working in PR. I made the switch and my career went well. I ended up being a senior consultant with each of the world's two largest PR companies, directing campaigns for some of the biggest corporations in the world. I stopped doing it in 2001 because I was tired of being treated as an expendable resource by companies that clearly only cared about their own bottom line. I was working too hard, not being treated with enough respect and my clients were increasingly complaining that they felt like they were being used to make money, rather than being given outstanding service and value.
So, I started my own business, using my own money, and took my clients with me. I bought a five year lease on an office in Notting Hill and hired six permanent staff. Unfortunately, six weeks later September 11th happened which was an absolute disaster because most of my clients were either airlines or aviation-related.
I had to buy out the lease and sack all the staff. It cost me a lot of money. At that point I didn't want to go back to big PR companies and found myself alone, with no cash and no way of paying the mortgage or the bills. I decided to persevere with my little business by myself, running it from a spare room. I sold all my toys and at times didn't have enough money to put petrol in the car or to go to the supermarket.
Things picked up with hard work and sacrifices until half way through last year, when I had another disastrous run of luck. Lost three big accounts - two going bust and one deciding they needed a bigger PR company. Other clients were increasingly slow to pay their bills and I ran into really bad cashflow problems, increasingly finding that the little guy at the end of the line, the one who could least afford to carry debt, was always the last to be paid.
So, after a lot of soul searching, after nearly five years of doing my own thing I decided to go back to a big agency. I took my clients and prospects with me and sacrificed the independence for the stability. Six months later it's back to the same old routine. I'm under huge pressure for arbitrary revenue figures, I'm threatened with the sack on an almost daily basis, I'm working silly hours, I'm stressed out of my skin and my new employer has just turned around and told me that they won't support me through the major operation I'm about to have (essentially told me that I'll get sacked for having the time off). I'm treated with open contempt by my female line manager, who has made it clear from day one that she hasn't wanted me there. Two months ago she moved my office to the fifth floor of a building without a lift and that has only one gents toilet in the basement, even though she knows that I have a fractured ankle and ruptured ankle ligaments.
Most tellingly, my clients are complaining about the service level and the bills and I lost one this week who has had enough and said that moving to the business was the worst thing I've ever done. I've also lost out on new business I really should have secured because prospect companies don't like the attitude of the company.
The op happens on Thursday - the surgeon has told me that I can't walk or drive for six weeks afterwards. I've taken no leave this year and have broadband at home, but have been told that the company won't accept me working from home and won't let me have the time off. I know that I'm going to have another uncomfortable conversation with the MD tomorrow and I don't know how to handle it. In my heart I want to tell them to stuff it, go off and do my own thing again, but if I was to do this I'd need to do it properly. I can't run a business by myself from my spare room - I need an office, staff and some substance in order to service the business and attract new clients. But I don't have the money to invest and I don't know anybody else who does. I can't put my home at risk.
So, after all that, the question. How can I attract the investment I need in order to create a successful business?
So, I started my own business, using my own money, and took my clients with me. I bought a five year lease on an office in Notting Hill and hired six permanent staff. Unfortunately, six weeks later September 11th happened which was an absolute disaster because most of my clients were either airlines or aviation-related.
I had to buy out the lease and sack all the staff. It cost me a lot of money. At that point I didn't want to go back to big PR companies and found myself alone, with no cash and no way of paying the mortgage or the bills. I decided to persevere with my little business by myself, running it from a spare room. I sold all my toys and at times didn't have enough money to put petrol in the car or to go to the supermarket.
Things picked up with hard work and sacrifices until half way through last year, when I had another disastrous run of luck. Lost three big accounts - two going bust and one deciding they needed a bigger PR company. Other clients were increasingly slow to pay their bills and I ran into really bad cashflow problems, increasingly finding that the little guy at the end of the line, the one who could least afford to carry debt, was always the last to be paid.
So, after a lot of soul searching, after nearly five years of doing my own thing I decided to go back to a big agency. I took my clients and prospects with me and sacrificed the independence for the stability. Six months later it's back to the same old routine. I'm under huge pressure for arbitrary revenue figures, I'm threatened with the sack on an almost daily basis, I'm working silly hours, I'm stressed out of my skin and my new employer has just turned around and told me that they won't support me through the major operation I'm about to have (essentially told me that I'll get sacked for having the time off). I'm treated with open contempt by my female line manager, who has made it clear from day one that she hasn't wanted me there. Two months ago she moved my office to the fifth floor of a building without a lift and that has only one gents toilet in the basement, even though she knows that I have a fractured ankle and ruptured ankle ligaments.
Most tellingly, my clients are complaining about the service level and the bills and I lost one this week who has had enough and said that moving to the business was the worst thing I've ever done. I've also lost out on new business I really should have secured because prospect companies don't like the attitude of the company.
The op happens on Thursday - the surgeon has told me that I can't walk or drive for six weeks afterwards. I've taken no leave this year and have broadband at home, but have been told that the company won't accept me working from home and won't let me have the time off. I know that I'm going to have another uncomfortable conversation with the MD tomorrow and I don't know how to handle it. In my heart I want to tell them to stuff it, go off and do my own thing again, but if I was to do this I'd need to do it properly. I can't run a business by myself from my spare room - I need an office, staff and some substance in order to service the business and attract new clients. But I don't have the money to invest and I don't know anybody else who does. I can't put my home at risk.
So, after all that, the question. How can I attract the investment I need in order to create a successful business?
Edited by Mon Ami Mate on Sunday 24th September 11:49
Poetic justice would immediately suggest that the constructive dismissal claim you will discuss with the solicitor tomorrow would provide a healthy chunk of the money needed.
If you are good, that ought to shine through to your colleagues. Could some of the better ones be persuaded to come and play, taking equity, rather than salaries, so that a downtrun bits everyone, not just you, and your pocket. Presumably you would take existing clients with you, so there ought to be some cashflow from day One?
If you are good, that ought to shine through to your colleagues. Could some of the better ones be persuaded to come and play, taking equity, rather than salaries, so that a downtrun bits everyone, not just you, and your pocket. Presumably you would take existing clients with you, so there ought to be some cashflow from day One?
randlemarcus said:
Poetic justice would immediately suggest that the constructive dismissal claim you will discuss with the solicitor tomorrow would provide a healthy chunk of the money needed.
If you are good, that ought to shine through to your colleagues. Could some of the better ones be persuaded to come and play, taking equity, rather than salaries, so that a downtrun bits everyone, not just you, and your pocket. Presumably you would take existing clients with you, so there ought to be some cashflow from day One?
Thank you for the response. I don't think I'd get anywhere with constructive dismissal having only been there six months. I will take the clients with me - the contract I negotiated states that any business remains with me if we part company within 12 months. If you are good, that ought to shine through to your colleagues. Could some of the better ones be persuaded to come and play, taking equity, rather than salaries, so that a downtrun bits everyone, not just you, and your pocket. Presumably you would take existing clients with you, so there ought to be some cashflow from day One?
Another question. My contract states a six month probationary period, subsequent to which there is six months' notice required on either side and I'm supposed to receive a pension and private medical insurance (as well as a few other bits and pieces). I have gone past six months' employment but have had no discussions about the completion of the probationary period. Should all this automatically kick in or do I need to have some sort of formal process?
Edited by Mon Ami Mate on Sunday 24th September 12:43
I started my own consultancy (IT) before I started university and continued on an ad-hoc basis through uni. I never once wanted to work for somebody else.
However, like you I didn't like managing the side of the business which involved chasing up customers, hunting for new work regularly, doing lots of free work in the hope of getting business that never materialised. It wasn't so bad for me as it has been for you, I was pretty much a one-man-band with my business partner helping out every now and then too - no employees.
Then, I figured I'd give contracting a go. Its not perfect, recruitment agencies are often deficient in many ways and how nice the client is will depend on luck. But, I get the feeling that I am still my own boss yet have the security of getting paid on time.
In the PR world could you contract your services to large firms? Would that be an option for you until you get the cash together to give your own thing another go?
However, like you I didn't like managing the side of the business which involved chasing up customers, hunting for new work regularly, doing lots of free work in the hope of getting business that never materialised. It wasn't so bad for me as it has been for you, I was pretty much a one-man-band with my business partner helping out every now and then too - no employees.
Then, I figured I'd give contracting a go. Its not perfect, recruitment agencies are often deficient in many ways and how nice the client is will depend on luck. But, I get the feeling that I am still my own boss yet have the security of getting paid on time.
In the PR world could you contract your services to large firms? Would that be an option for you until you get the cash together to give your own thing another go?
The thought of being employed and all the crap that goes with it :shudder: helps keep me going through the bad times of running businesses. Sincere good wishes with regard to your op and the dealings with 5hite Attitude & Co, and all the luck in the world for a possible return to the own-canoe paddlers club, just keep hold of the stick and keep outta that creek
Have you considered a personal audit and then using the results to boost survival? Any experience and expertise can become an income stream to support re-development of your main business line. For example, your description of your career history would seem to make you absolutely dead cert qualified to train others in PR and journalism, and maybe there's a hobby that's more than a hobby which you could use. It would be no exaggeration to suspect that self-exploitation in this way could double or triple your income during the early phase of a re-launch, funding it properly and enjoyably with no fees outside your own, and you might find something that takes off in unexpected ways.
Have you considered a personal audit and then using the results to boost survival? Any experience and expertise can become an income stream to support re-development of your main business line. For example, your description of your career history would seem to make you absolutely dead cert qualified to train others in PR and journalism, and maybe there's a hobby that's more than a hobby which you could use. It would be no exaggeration to suspect that self-exploitation in this way could double or triple your income during the early phase of a re-launch, funding it properly and enjoyably with no fees outside your own, and you might find something that takes off in unexpected ways.
Mon Ami Mate said:
randlemarcus said:
Poetic justice would immediately suggest that the constructive dismissal claim you will discuss with the solicitor tomorrow would provide a healthy chunk of the money needed.
If you are good, that ought to shine through to your colleagues. Could some of the better ones be persuaded to come and play, taking equity, rather than salaries, so that a downtrun bits everyone, not just you, and your pocket. Presumably you would take existing clients with you, so there ought to be some cashflow from day One?
Thank you for the response. I don't think I'd get anywhere with constructive dismissal having only been there six months. I will take the clients with me - the contract I negotiated states that any business remains with me if we part company within 12 months. If you are good, that ought to shine through to your colleagues. Could some of the better ones be persuaded to come and play, taking equity, rather than salaries, so that a downtrun bits everyone, not just you, and your pocket. Presumably you would take existing clients with you, so there ought to be some cashflow from day One?
Another question. My contract states a six month probationary period, subsequent to which there is six months' notice required on either side and I'm supposed to receive a pension and private medical insurance (as well as a few other bits and pieces). I have gone past six months' employment but have had no discussions about the completion of the probationary period. Should all this automatically kick in or do I need to have some sort of formal process?
Edited by Mon Ami Mate on Sunday 24th September 12:43
Given that you are past the 6 month probationary period and you haven't been informed that your performance hasn't been up to scratch then you are into the next phase of the contract.
Here is a useful site for figuring out your rights.
www.advicenow.org.uk/go/Default.html
BigAlinEmbra said:
Mon Ami Mate said:
randlemarcus said:
Poetic justice would immediately suggest that the constructive dismissal claim you will discuss with the solicitor tomorrow would provide a healthy chunk of the money needed.
If you are good, that ought to shine through to your colleagues. Could some of the better ones be persuaded to come and play, taking equity, rather than salaries, so that a downtrun bits everyone, not just you, and your pocket. Presumably you would take existing clients with you, so there ought to be some cashflow from day One?
Thank you for the response. I don't think I'd get anywhere with constructive dismissal having only been there six months. I will take the clients with me - the contract I negotiated states that any business remains with me if we part company within 12 months. If you are good, that ought to shine through to your colleagues. Could some of the better ones be persuaded to come and play, taking equity, rather than salaries, so that a downtrun bits everyone, not just you, and your pocket. Presumably you would take existing clients with you, so there ought to be some cashflow from day One?
Another question. My contract states a six month probationary period, subsequent to which there is six months' notice required on either side and I'm supposed to receive a pension and private medical insurance (as well as a few other bits and pieces). I have gone past six months' employment but have had no discussions about the completion of the probationary period. Should all this automatically kick in or do I need to have some sort of formal process?
Edited by Mon Ami Mate on Sunday 24th September 12:43
Given that you are past the 6 month probationary period and you haven't been informed that your performance hasn't been up to scratch then you are into the next phase of the contract.
Here is a useful site for figuring out your rights.
www.advicenow.org.uk/go/Default.html
Morning,
Definately have a chat with someone.
I've known staff who have hit firms within days of starting with Constructive Dismissal.
It's a stronger law than any employment contract.
If you are genuinely on the fifth floor with the only gents on the ground then you need to put this observation in writing immediately and start building your case.
The most open and shut abuse cases are lost every day due to lack of evidence.
DOCUMENT EVERYTHING
Use this as the threat to break your contract and walk to a better firm with your clients.
If setting up on your own you do not want the emotional upheaval of a suit to slow you down and likewise with a new job elsewhere.
Definately have a chat with someone.
I've known staff who have hit firms within days of starting with Constructive Dismissal.
It's a stronger law than any employment contract.
If you are genuinely on the fifth floor with the only gents on the ground then you need to put this observation in writing immediately and start building your case.
The most open and shut abuse cases are lost every day due to lack of evidence.
DOCUMENT EVERYTHING
Use this as the threat to break your contract and walk to a better firm with your clients.
If setting up on your own you do not want the emotional upheaval of a suit to slow you down and likewise with a new job elsewhere.
Mon Ami Mate said:
I can't put my home at risk.
Malcolm, sounds awful, you have my deepest sympathies.
However, the ultimate sign of committment, ime, is the pledging of the holiest of holies.
I had to do it once and it felt like somebody had my veg in a chain mailed grip - not pleasant but at the time, unavoidable.
Free of such liabilty these days, it was something of an 'ultimate risk' scenario but funnily enough, what allowed me to do it was an interview with Branson in which he commented that he'd lost count of the number of times he'd had to get his wife to co-sign stuff for the remortgaging of his ass, as it were.
I doubt any serious investor will risk their w/c if you are not prepared to raise some uber sweat equity at the same time.
Remember, you are highly capable and have done it before - the only obstacle is wonga - but for 9/11 you'd be ok and you can do it again.
Go for it, matey.
derestrictor said:
Mon Ami Mate said:
I can't put my home at risk.
Malcolm, sounds awful, you have my deepest sympathies.
However, the ultimate sign of committment, ime, is the pledging of the holiest of holies.
I had to do it once and it felt like somebody had my veg in a chain mailed grip - not pleasant but at the time, unavoidable.
Free of such liabilty these days, it was something of an 'ultimate risk' scenario but funnily enough, what allowed me to do it was an interview with Branson in which he commented that he'd lost count of the number of times he'd had to get his wife to co-sign stuff for the remortgaging of his ass, as it were.
I doubt any serious investor will risk their w/c if you are not prepared to raise some uber sweat equity at the same time.
Remember, you are highly capable and have done it before - the only obstacle is wonga - but for 9/11 you'd be ok and you can do it again.
Go for it, matey.
Interestingly enough, when I had the meeting yesterday the company suddenly started bending over backwards and making it absolutely clear that they did not want to lose me. Perhaps all is not lost after all...
Right, well it came to pass today - I've been sacked for the amount of time I've taken off since having my ankle reconstruction. I've called all my clients and they all say they are happy to come with me, but I need to have something of substance to be able to offer them. I guess this means I'm off to the bank on Monday. In some ways I feel enormously relieved, in other ways quite trepidous. Another one of life's little joker cards...
Also have a conversation with a lawyer - along the lines o this thread. I'm sure you would get a constructive dismissal claim upheld at an IT. Your old company probably know this too and will probably cough up some compo rather than risk an award against them.
You simply cannot just roll over and let them away with how they have treated you, you are about to start on your own and you need to be prepared to play hardball occasionally.
Good luck
You simply cannot just roll over and let them away with how they have treated you, you are about to start on your own and you need to be prepared to play hardball occasionally.
Good luck
Sorry to hear that MAM.
Something to consider though. You were in a building on the 5th floor wiht the only gents toilet on the ground floor. You were technically disabled for a period of time due to your operation.
You requested the flexibility of working from home as they wouldn't give you the time off.
You (ex) employers were legally bound to give due consideration to your homeworking request. They chose to refuse it and have now sacked you for the consequences of their decision? Also, their building fails Disabled Discrimination Act (DDA) regulations. You were disabled, you were sacked for not being able to work in a building without any disabled facilities.
Speak to a lawyer, I see in this crystal ball a large cheque heading your way.
Looking to the future, good luck with it mate. Het the loan, bring the clients and some staff with you, then use the above pay-out to steady the ship.
You'll be fine.
Something to consider though. You were in a building on the 5th floor wiht the only gents toilet on the ground floor. You were technically disabled for a period of time due to your operation.
You requested the flexibility of working from home as they wouldn't give you the time off.
You (ex) employers were legally bound to give due consideration to your homeworking request. They chose to refuse it and have now sacked you for the consequences of their decision? Also, their building fails Disabled Discrimination Act (DDA) regulations. You were disabled, you were sacked for not being able to work in a building without any disabled facilities.
Speak to a lawyer, I see in this crystal ball a large cheque heading your way.
Looking to the future, good luck with it mate. Het the loan, bring the clients and some staff with you, then use the above pay-out to steady the ship.
You'll be fine.
Mon Ami Mate said:
Right, well it came to pass today - I've been sacked for the amount of time I've taken off since having my ankle reconstruction. I've called all my clients and they all say they are happy to come with me, but I need to have something of substance to be able to offer them. I guess this means I'm off to the bank on Monday. In some ways I feel enormously relieved, in other ways quite trepidous. Another one of life's little joker cards...
Went through a very similar experience in '89 in very similar circumstances in a very similar industry.
Found my self out on the street (workwise!) at the tender age of 19. Set up my own studio and never looked back. It focused my mind and forced me into to doing something that I had long wanted to do but didn't have the nerve.
Good luck
Mon Ami Mate said:
I've now discovered that the company has been doing a grand tour of my clients while I have been away, telling them that I have been sacked for poor performance and trying to persuade them to sign binding contracts. Utter bastards.
Definitely get onto a lawyer about constructive dismissal then! Could provide some nice start-up capital....
egomeister said:
Mon Ami Mate said:
I've now discovered that the company has been doing a grand tour of my clients while I have been away, telling them that I have been sacked for poor performance and trying to persuade them to sign binding contracts. Utter bastards.
Definitely get onto a lawyer about constructive dismissal then! Could provide some nice start-up capital....
Mon Ami Mate said:
egomeister said:
Mon Ami Mate said:
I've now discovered that the company has been doing a grand tour of my clients while I have been away, telling them that I have been sacked for poor performance and trying to persuade them to sign binding contracts. Utter bastards.
Definitely get onto a lawyer about constructive dismissal then! Could provide some nice start-up capital....
damn
Like you say, at least you have the clients and your sanity. Still, at least you won't be short of something to motivate you to make a success of your business - what sweeter revenge than that which shows up in their yearly accounts!
I can't believe there are no employment solicitors working on a no-win-no-fee basis. Might be worth having a look for one? It's certainly an option for raising capital.
Other things I can think of - I know you don't want to risk your home, but could you re-mortgage to free up the equity you've built up?
From what you have said about the company you were working for, I'd be very surprised if you were the only one that felt that way. Maybe you might consider a partner who could also put some cash up if offered a chance to get out of there?
Finally, it's pretty obvious that things are at a fairly low ebb for you at the moment. Find a mentor, or someone you can talk to about things on a regular basis, or else starting a new business is going to be even tougher for you IMHO.
Other things I can think of - I know you don't want to risk your home, but could you re-mortgage to free up the equity you've built up?
From what you have said about the company you were working for, I'd be very surprised if you were the only one that felt that way. Maybe you might consider a partner who could also put some cash up if offered a chance to get out of there?
Finally, it's pretty obvious that things are at a fairly low ebb for you at the moment. Find a mentor, or someone you can talk to about things on a regular basis, or else starting a new business is going to be even tougher for you IMHO.
spoke to a friend who works in employment law to see if he would be willing to have a quick look and he said...
people don't have employment rights for the first 12 months, so cannot contend a Constructive Unfair Dismissal until they have been there for at leats 12 months. He had been there for only 8 months, so he does not have a claim.
email me if you would like to talk to him further.
Si
ProPlus' lawyer type mate said:
people don't have employment rights for the first 12 months, so cannot contend a Constructive Unfair Dismissal until they have been there for at leats 12 months. He had been there for only 8 months, so he does not have a claim.
email me if you would like to talk to him further.
Si
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