Presence sensor that actually works?
Discussion
I'm trying to automate the lighting in the kitchen/diner, using Home Assistant.
I've already got the lights in the hallways and bathroom automated, using Tapo motion sensors. These work great in areas that you pass through, but are rubbish if you stand or sit relatively still. The detection times out, and it rakes exaggerated movements to trigger again.
I bought an Aquara FP2 0resence sensor, and spent several hours setting up the room boundaries, furniture, exit points, etc.
It copes quite well with just one person in the room, during daylight.
With 2 people, it starts seeing "ghosts", detecting extra "people". The "off" state doesn't trigger, as it thinks there's still someone in an empty room after the real people exit.
Gets worse at night, possibly more reflections from windows when it's dark outside? Can easily see 5 or 6 people when there are only 2.
Does anyone make a sensor that actually works in a fairly reflective environment?
I've already got the lights in the hallways and bathroom automated, using Tapo motion sensors. These work great in areas that you pass through, but are rubbish if you stand or sit relatively still. The detection times out, and it rakes exaggerated movements to trigger again.
I bought an Aquara FP2 0resence sensor, and spent several hours setting up the room boundaries, furniture, exit points, etc.
It copes quite well with just one person in the room, during daylight.
With 2 people, it starts seeing "ghosts", detecting extra "people". The "off" state doesn't trigger, as it thinks there's still someone in an empty room after the real people exit.
Gets worse at night, possibly more reflections from windows when it's dark outside? Can easily see 5 or 6 people when there are only 2.
Does anyone make a sensor that actually works in a fairly reflective environment?
If 100% reliable presence sensors aren't "a thing", would it be possible to do using motion sensors at the entry point?
Maybe 2 sensors, so HA can tell the difference between entering and exiting, based on which sensor gets triggered first?
The entry point to the kitchen/diner is effectively a short corridor, could have 2 sensors scanning across the corridor.
I've found the Tapo motion sensors to be 100% for triggering motion when walking past, but completely useless at detecting the small chages when seated or standing relatively still.
Maybe 2 sensors, so HA can tell the difference between entering and exiting, based on which sensor gets triggered first?
The entry point to the kitchen/diner is effectively a short corridor, could have 2 sensors scanning across the corridor.
I've found the Tapo motion sensors to be 100% for triggering motion when walking past, but completely useless at detecting the small chages when seated or standing relatively still.
Trustmeimadoctor said:
Try the everything presence sensors they are basically the best you can get
Reading some reviews, comparing this one to the Aquara sensors, it seems to suffer the same problems with "ghosts". It adds a normal motion sensor, but can't do "zones".It's really quite annoying, as the Aquara works perfectly in detecting when someone enters the room, but seems to lose track if they become stationary for more than a few seconds, and registers them as a new person when they move again. Now there are 2 or more "people" in the room, so when the real person is detected correctly leaving, there's still a "ghost" presence in the room. "Off" automations fail.
I tried it again this afternoon, two people going in and out of the kitchen, often nobody actually n the room for multiple minutes.
At one point, there were 5 people shown as being in the room.
At no point during a four hour test period was the room shown as empty.
Come into the room, switch on the kettle or coffee machine, leave a "ghost" standing there. Sit down at the table with your cuppa, leave a "ghost" sitting there when you get up again.
This is despite mapping the room edges, adding the furniture, marking the exit points, running the AI learning multiple times, etc.
I have been using these for years with esphome.
https://www.hlktech.net/index.php?id=1095
They do not easily do zones, but you can do distance which I find is fine for my needs. They take a fair amount of tuning but once set I have very few issues at all. They detect quick enough to not cause any issues, they do not have false detections or ghosts.
I just connect them to my esphome BLE proxies.
https://www.hlktech.net/index.php?id=1095
They do not easily do zones, but you can do distance which I find is fine for my needs. They take a fair amount of tuning but once set I have very few issues at all. They detect quick enough to not cause any issues, they do not have false detections or ghosts.
I just connect them to my esphome BLE proxies.
I'm not too keen on the DIY approach.
I've got a tablet on the dining room windowsill which I use as a HA dashboard, running Fully Kiosk.
It does a very good job of switching on when someone enters the room, and off again when the room is empty.
No "ghosts", so it always works.
I wondered if I could use this as a trigger in HA to turn the lights on and off. I can see a couple of sensors in the tablet under the HA "Mobile App" integration - motion and proximity. Unfortunately these don't appear to change state at all.
Got me thinking, maybe the motion detector feature of a surveillance camera would be an option?
I've got a tablet on the dining room windowsill which I use as a HA dashboard, running Fully Kiosk.
It does a very good job of switching on when someone enters the room, and off again when the room is empty.
No "ghosts", so it always works.
I wondered if I could use this as a trigger in HA to turn the lights on and off. I can see a couple of sensors in the tablet under the HA "Mobile App" integration - motion and proximity. Unfortunately these don't appear to change state at all.
Got me thinking, maybe the motion detector feature of a surveillance camera would be an option?
I use these, perfect for turning lights on and off, and keeping them on when your presence is still detected.
on AliExpress: ?13.63 | Tuya Zigbee/WiFi Smart Human Presence Sensor MmWave Radar Detection Luminance/Distance Detection For Z2M Support Home Assistant
https://a.aliexpress.com/_EyWi9vI
on AliExpress: ?13.63 | Tuya Zigbee/WiFi Smart Human Presence Sensor MmWave Radar Detection Luminance/Distance Detection For Z2M Support Home Assistant
https://a.aliexpress.com/_EyWi9vI
ARH said:
Does the fully kiosk integration not tell you when the screen is on?
I am guessing the HA app will do it though.
Reading the installation notes for the Fully Kiosk integration, I can't see anything that shows screen state or motion. Looks like it's mostly for controlling the tablet remotely.I am guessing the HA app will do it though.
The tablet "device" shows things that look like they should work, but they never change state in HA.
Googling using cameras as presence sensors, lag seems to be a major drawback
Somebody said:
I was about to suggest various flavours of UWB, but the above probably is a pretty good place to start for not much money. This article is worth reading: https://smarthomescene.com/blog/best-and-worst-pre...
For me I have found Apollo to be very good, then Aquara FP300 and then Everything Presence dual sensor
For me I have found Apollo to be very good, then Aquara FP300 and then Everything Presence dual sensor
I sent the Aquara sensor back for a refund.
I had a search through my "smart devices drawer" and found a Tapo motion sensor, three Shelly Blumotion sensors, and two Switchbot motion sensors. All stuff that I'd bought to try automations before getting started with Home Assistant. The Shelly and Switchbot sensors were far too slow to respond, as they are cloud-based when using their own software. Tapo uses local control.
I already have a Tapo hub. I connected a Shelly 1 gen3 to the under-cabinet lighting in the kitchen. This can act as a Bluetooth proxy for HA, making the Shelly Blumotion sensors "local".
I put a Tapo and a Shelly sensor in different positions in the dining area, and set up a "sensor light" automation to control the dining area smart bulb group.
Triggering either sensor will run the automation, lights go off after 90 seconds unless retriggered.
The Shelly includes a lux sensor, so lights won't come on in bright daylight, and if previously triggered, will go off if gets too light.
Before actually turning off, the lights dim to 50% for 30 seconds - a warning to move and re-trigger.
In practice, one of the two motion sensors will pick up pretty much any movement and keep the lights on. Rarely needs an exaggerated movement.
I put another Tapo sensor in the kitchen area, using a "sensor switch" blueprint to turn on the Shelly 1 cabinet lights, conditional on the dining area lights already being on. You have to pass through the dining area to get to the kitchen area, so this works well.
So far, so good. No false triggers, and it does exactly what I was trying to achieve with the Aquara
I had a search through my "smart devices drawer" and found a Tapo motion sensor, three Shelly Blumotion sensors, and two Switchbot motion sensors. All stuff that I'd bought to try automations before getting started with Home Assistant. The Shelly and Switchbot sensors were far too slow to respond, as they are cloud-based when using their own software. Tapo uses local control.
I already have a Tapo hub. I connected a Shelly 1 gen3 to the under-cabinet lighting in the kitchen. This can act as a Bluetooth proxy for HA, making the Shelly Blumotion sensors "local".
I put a Tapo and a Shelly sensor in different positions in the dining area, and set up a "sensor light" automation to control the dining area smart bulb group.
Triggering either sensor will run the automation, lights go off after 90 seconds unless retriggered.
The Shelly includes a lux sensor, so lights won't come on in bright daylight, and if previously triggered, will go off if gets too light.
Before actually turning off, the lights dim to 50% for 30 seconds - a warning to move and re-trigger.
In practice, one of the two motion sensors will pick up pretty much any movement and keep the lights on. Rarely needs an exaggerated movement.
I put another Tapo sensor in the kitchen area, using a "sensor switch" blueprint to turn on the Shelly 1 cabinet lights, conditional on the dining area lights already being on. You have to pass through the dining area to get to the kitchen area, so this works well.
So far, so good. No false triggers, and it does exactly what I was trying to achieve with the Aquara
I've got one of the Sonoff SNZP-06P presence sensors in my kitchen and had no problem with it at all. It's relatively short range (4m I think) and doesn't do any fancy stuff about identifying multiple people. Impressed with it for <€20. I'd use more of them if there was an easy way to get power to where I want them.
I have quite a few motion sensors around (Sonoff SNZB-03, SNZB-03P and Ikea Vallhorn) which work well for controlling the lights on the stairs, where you're moving, but you don't need to sit still for long for them lose you.
I have quite a few motion sensors around (Sonoff SNZB-03, SNZB-03P and Ikea Vallhorn) which work well for controlling the lights on the stairs, where you're moving, but you don't need to sit still for long for them lose you.
RizzoTheRat said:
I've got one of the Sonoff SNZP-06P presence sensors in my kitchen and had no problem with it at all. It's relatively short range (4m I think) and doesn't do any fancy stuff about identifying multiple people. Impressed with it for < 20. I'd use more of them if there was an easy way to get power to where I want them.
I have quite a few motion sensors around (Sonoff SNZB-03, SNZB-03P and Ikea Vallhorn) which work well for controlling the lights on the stairs, where you're moving, but you don't need to sit still for long for them lose you.
The Tapo motion sensors that I use in the hallway, landing and main bathroom suffer from this. Great when you are passing through, not good if you are moving slowly like when doing housework or finding something in a cupboard.I have quite a few motion sensors around (Sonoff SNZB-03, SNZB-03P and Ikea Vallhorn) which work well for controlling the lights on the stairs, where you're moving, but you don't need to sit still for long for them lose you.
The Shelly Blumotion seems to be much better at picking up very small movements, but not so responsive to the initial trigger motion.
I think it's the combination of both motion sensors that's making it work for me - Tapo has better range, detects people on entry. Shelly sees small movements when seated at the table.
I think the problem with the Aquara was there were just too many reflective surfaces to bounce the microwaves. 3 big windows, 2 glazed doors, glossy cabinet doors, tiled floor, display cabinets, etc.
I tried it in 3 different room locations, doing a factory reset and relearning the room each time. Whenever someone stopped moving for a few seconds, they left a "ghost" behind when they moved again. Sensor just never went "clear" in a empty room.
clockworks said:
The Shelly Blumotion seems to be much better at picking up very small movements, but not so responsive to the initial trigger motion.
I think it's the combination of both motion sensors that's making it work for me - Tapo has better range, detects people on entry. Shelly sees small movements when seated at the table.
I think the problem with the Aquara was there were just too many reflective surfaces to bounce the microwaves. 3 big windows, 2 glazed doors, glossy cabinet doors, tiled floor, display cabinets, etc.
Interesting thought on the reflection, the microwave door is the field of view of mine but I've not noticed it being a problem. I have the presence sensor one end of the room and a motion sensor at the other which picks up anyone coming up the stairs out of range/view of the presence sensor. I think it's the combination of both motion sensors that's making it work for me - Tapo has better range, detects people on entry. Shelly sees small movements when seated at the table.
I think the problem with the Aquara was there were just too many reflective surfaces to bounce the microwaves. 3 big windows, 2 glazed doors, glossy cabinet doors, tiled floor, display cabinets, etc.
I think there's a lot to be said for the combined presence and motion sensors like the Everything mentioned above, but they're 3 times the price and I believe use wifi while all my smart home stuff is on Zigbee.
Edited by RizzoTheRat on Thursday 15th January 12:39
Trustmeimadoctor said:
This is why the ones I mentioned work well they combine put and mmwave to cover these issues pir fast response mmwave low movement detection zones and multiple object tracking
I might get an EP1 to try when they come back in stock.Having to use a power cable will limit where I can put it though. The battery powered Tapo and Shelly motion sensors can go just about anywhere.
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