'Smart' wifi 2 way light switches?
Discussion
Bit of a minefield looking for something that might work.
My living room has a ceiling light and 2 x 1 gang 2 way switches on either side.
I'm looking to replace them for smart switches/Google assistant compatible and likely do the same to other most frequently used lights in the house.
The 'master' switch has a perm live going to comm, 2 browns and the light switch live going to one way, and a couple others going to two way terminals, plus 3 neutrals terminated together.
The second switch has only 1 brown in comm, light switch live in one way IIRC and a signal wire in 2way.
Does anything on the market exist which will maintain the 2way control of both switches, with wifi, ideally without fitting a capacitor? Note that only the main switch has the 3 neutrals, the other switch has none.
Thanks
My living room has a ceiling light and 2 x 1 gang 2 way switches on either side.
I'm looking to replace them for smart switches/Google assistant compatible and likely do the same to other most frequently used lights in the house.
The 'master' switch has a perm live going to comm, 2 browns and the light switch live going to one way, and a couple others going to two way terminals, plus 3 neutrals terminated together.
The second switch has only 1 brown in comm, light switch live in one way IIRC and a signal wire in 2way.
Does anything on the market exist which will maintain the 2way control of both switches, with wifi, ideally without fitting a capacitor? Note that only the main switch has the 3 neutrals, the other switch has none.
Thanks
I used a physical smart light switch on one , and a battery operated smart on the other end of our kitchen, hall, and garage. Master and slave affair. They all work fine. Wired up as a single affair, not the usual method of double switching.
They are all tuya based, and operate though milliwave sensors as well.
They are all tuya based, and operate though milliwave sensors as well.
I use one switch as the actual switch, and the other as a main powered remote that tells Home Assistant to switch the other switch, might be an option depending on what systems you're using.
Some relays can use a 240v signal as the switch signal, meaning you can leave your existing switches in place, and fit a relay in the light fitting using the switched live from the light switches as the signal, and connected to the live and neutral that you almost certainly have in the light fitting. I know the Sonoff Zigbee relays can definitely do this, don't know about WiFi ones specifically but I'd be surprised if Shelly don't do a relay that can do it.
Edit: Shelly 1 Mini diagram appears to show exactly what you want
https://shellysa.co.za/wiring-diagrams/
Some relays can use a 240v signal as the switch signal, meaning you can leave your existing switches in place, and fit a relay in the light fitting using the switched live from the light switches as the signal, and connected to the live and neutral that you almost certainly have in the light fitting. I know the Sonoff Zigbee relays can definitely do this, don't know about WiFi ones specifically but I'd be surprised if Shelly don't do a relay that can do it.
Edit: Shelly 1 Mini diagram appears to show exactly what you want
https://shellysa.co.za/wiring-diagrams/
Edited by RizzoTheRat on Wednesday 25th February 12:59
Smart bulbs and either voice control or motion/presence sensors fitted in most rooms.
I've only got one smart "switch" for indoors lighting - a Shelly 1 controlling the transformer for the kitchen cabinet LED strips. Another Shelly does the garden outside light.
The hallways and landing are switched by Tapo motion sensors, as is the bathroom.
The dining room has several motion sensors.
Bedrooms and lounge are all voice-controlled using Alexa. Alexa can also override the areas with motion sensors.
Home Assistant ties everything together, and adds some automations. Not strictly necessary for the lighting though.
I've only got one smart "switch" for indoors lighting - a Shelly 1 controlling the transformer for the kitchen cabinet LED strips. Another Shelly does the garden outside light.
The hallways and landing are switched by Tapo motion sensors, as is the bathroom.
The dining room has several motion sensors.
Bedrooms and lounge are all voice-controlled using Alexa. Alexa can also override the areas with motion sensors.
Home Assistant ties everything together, and adds some automations. Not strictly necessary for the lighting though.
Maybe have a look at the Quinetic range of products:
https://www.quinetic.co.uk/#products
https://www.quinetic.co.uk/products/in-line-receiv...
https://www.quinetic.co.uk/products/weatherproof-s...
The simplest solution would be the items above but to add smart control you might need to use their wireless hub.
https://www.quinetic.co.uk/#products
https://www.quinetic.co.uk/products/in-line-receiv...
https://www.quinetic.co.uk/products/weatherproof-s...
The simplest solution would be the items above but to add smart control you might need to use their wireless hub.
Im slowly switching to Shelly.
As part of this I’m changing light switches to non latching/button press type (I”m using Knightsbridge grid so I can mix and match if you also have a traditional switch requirement in the same unit).
You just put all the switches in parallel, if any get pressed, the light toggles on/off. The dimmer versions are out of stock until next month but I’ll be trying those as well. The dimming is achieved by holding the button down.
The only issue I can think of is the Shelly unit is best placed where you have the neutral as this is typically where the live is sent out to the switches. It’s only a problem if you can’t get access, say it’s a ceiling rose with no space although there are work arounds. Because of the design, they’re not dependent on bridges, wifi, etc for normal operation, but are easily controlled via the Shelly app, home assistant etc.
As part of this I’m changing light switches to non latching/button press type (I”m using Knightsbridge grid so I can mix and match if you also have a traditional switch requirement in the same unit).
You just put all the switches in parallel, if any get pressed, the light toggles on/off. The dimmer versions are out of stock until next month but I’ll be trying those as well. The dimming is achieved by holding the button down.
The only issue I can think of is the Shelly unit is best placed where you have the neutral as this is typically where the live is sent out to the switches. It’s only a problem if you can’t get access, say it’s a ceiling rose with no space although there are work arounds. Because of the design, they’re not dependent on bridges, wifi, etc for normal operation, but are easily controlled via the Shelly app, home assistant etc.
Put something like a shelly relay in the light fitting.
https://shellystore.co.uk/product/shelly-1-gen4/
This will remove any need for messing about trying to get light switches to work in 2 or 3 way setups.
Its cheaper.
It allows you far more choice of switches if you like to have something different to a white switch.
They are local and compatible with most setups.
https://shellystore.co.uk/product/shelly-1-gen4/
This will remove any need for messing about trying to get light switches to work in 2 or 3 way setups.
Its cheaper.
It allows you far more choice of switches if you like to have something different to a white switch.
They are local and compatible with most setups.
Mr Pointy said:
Maybe have a look at the Quinetic range of products:
https://www.quinetic.co.uk/#products
https://www.quinetic.co.uk/products/in-line-receiv...
https://www.quinetic.co.uk/products/weatherproof-s...
The simplest solution would be the items above but to add smart control you might need to use their wireless hub.
This is exactly what I was about to suggest. https://www.quinetic.co.uk/#products
https://www.quinetic.co.uk/products/in-line-receiv...
https://www.quinetic.co.uk/products/weatherproof-s...
The simplest solution would be the items above but to add smart control you might need to use their wireless hub.
ARH said:
Put something like a shelly relay in the light fitting.
https://shellystore.co.uk/product/shelly-1-gen4/
This will remove any need for messing about trying to get light switches to work in 2 or 3 way setups.
Its cheaper.
It allows you far more choice of switches if you like to have something different to a white switch.
They are local and compatible with most setups.
You can get away with the Mini version for lighting as it can switch 8A (equivalenet to 18x 100w light bulbs). Its a few quid cheaper, even more so if you buy the pair. https://shellystore.co.uk/product/shelly-1-gen4/
This will remove any need for messing about trying to get light switches to work in 2 or 3 way setups.
Its cheaper.
It allows you far more choice of switches if you like to have something different to a white switch.
They are local and compatible with most setups.
https://shellystore.co.uk/product/shelly-1-mini-ge...
I've managed to replace the two switches with working 2 way wifi switches, but now I'm trying to tackle the next pair but I dont know if its possible.
Downstairs: 2 gang, right switch does hallway light, left switch does upstairs landing light on a 2way circuit
Upstairs: 2 gang, right switch does bathroom, left switch also does landing light.
The landing light is a separate circuit on the CU. There's a breaker for downstairs and upstairs lighting.
The switches are 2 gang with terminals N,L,L1,L2. I have neutrals at both boxes
I know I cant wire them to the same live feed as that would bridge the downstairs and upstairs circuit together. I'm wondering if there is a workaround? My only guess is to only connect the upstairs switch to the landing light and give the downstairs switch its normal downstairs live and see if they can be connected as 2 way switches from the app while having no physical wires connected between them. They're BSEED switches
Downstairs: 2 gang, right switch does hallway light, left switch does upstairs landing light on a 2way circuit
Upstairs: 2 gang, right switch does bathroom, left switch also does landing light.
The landing light is a separate circuit on the CU. There's a breaker for downstairs and upstairs lighting.
The switches are 2 gang with terminals N,L,L1,L2. I have neutrals at both boxes
I know I cant wire them to the same live feed as that would bridge the downstairs and upstairs circuit together. I'm wondering if there is a workaround? My only guess is to only connect the upstairs switch to the landing light and give the downstairs switch its normal downstairs live and see if they can be connected as 2 way switches from the app while having no physical wires connected between them. They're BSEED switches
Acuity31 said:
I've managed to replace the two switches with working 2 way wifi switches, but now I'm trying to tackle the next pair but I dont know if its possible.
Downstairs: 2 gang, right switch does hallway light, left switch does upstairs landing light on a 2way circuit
Upstairs: 2 gang, right switch does bathroom, left switch also does landing light.
The landing light is a separate circuit on the CU. There's a breaker for downstairs and upstairs lighting.
The switches are 2 gang with terminals N,L,L1,L2. I have neutrals at both boxes
I know I cant wire them to the same live feed as that would bridge the downstairs and upstairs circuit together. I'm wondering if there is a workaround? My only guess is to only connect the upstairs switch to the landing light and give the downstairs switch its normal downstairs live and see if they can be connected as 2 way switches from the app while having no physical wires connected between them. They're BSEED switches
This is why putting a relay in the light fitting is just easier. Downstairs: 2 gang, right switch does hallway light, left switch does upstairs landing light on a 2way circuit
Upstairs: 2 gang, right switch does bathroom, left switch also does landing light.
The landing light is a separate circuit on the CU. There's a breaker for downstairs and upstairs lighting.
The switches are 2 gang with terminals N,L,L1,L2. I have neutrals at both boxes
I know I cant wire them to the same live feed as that would bridge the downstairs and upstairs circuit together. I'm wondering if there is a workaround? My only guess is to only connect the upstairs switch to the landing light and give the downstairs switch its normal downstairs live and see if they can be connected as 2 way switches from the app while having no physical wires connected between them. They're BSEED switches
My 3 ways are all done by wiring bypassing the switch at one of the switches so only one switch actually controls the light. The other switch is then a mains powered remote for the master switch. At the moment that's done by home assistant, so the remote switch won't work if the server's down, but in theory I ought to be able to pair them directly over the Zigbee network if I can be bothered to work out how.
ARH said:
This is why putting a relay in the light fitting is just easier.
I'd consider that but I dont know how that would allow me to fit any switch I want? I like the touch panel switches around the house and due to their design there seems to be no way to wire both into the landing light without bridging two separate circuitsGassing Station | Computers, Gadgets & Stuff | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff