GTV V6 or Fiat 20v Turbo?
Discussion
I've (finally) narrowed down the choice of the next car to one of these two, I think, with a budget of up to 8k (although less is more, as it were! 
).
Thought I'd pick your brains as to which would be the better bet. I've had a 2.0 GTV Lusso before, and liked it, but wouldn't mind a change - the Fiat Coupe with the Fiat body kit on it looks very nice indeed.
Basically, which one is going to be the least hassle to run? It'll be sitting in front of a flat for a week at a time, and used at weekends.
So - based on running costs, the amount of TLC each would need, and the fun factor, which would you have, and why?
Ta,
Dan
). Thought I'd pick your brains as to which would be the better bet. I've had a 2.0 GTV Lusso before, and liked it, but wouldn't mind a change - the Fiat Coupe with the Fiat body kit on it looks very nice indeed.
Basically, which one is going to be the least hassle to run? It'll be sitting in front of a flat for a week at a time, and used at weekends.
So - based on running costs, the amount of TLC each would need, and the fun factor, which would you have, and why?
Ta,
Dan
If you're only going to be using it as a toy car, so practicality isn't important, then I'd go for the GTV.
Performance as standard is so similar as to be nothing in it. Handling of the GTV is more accomplished.
Looks - in the eye of the beholder, but I prefer the GTV.
For £8k you're more likely to find an unmolested Alfa than a Fiat, I'd wager.
{edited to add:} If you're coming from a VX220, neither car is going to give you quite the same kind of B-road thrills, but they're pretty good (as you probably already know from your GTV TS experiences).
>> Edited by pdV6 on Tuesday 29th June 10:12
Performance as standard is so similar as to be nothing in it. Handling of the GTV is more accomplished.
Looks - in the eye of the beholder, but I prefer the GTV.
For £8k you're more likely to find an unmolested Alfa than a Fiat, I'd wager.
{edited to add:} If you're coming from a VX220, neither car is going to give you quite the same kind of B-road thrills, but they're pretty good (as you probably already know from your GTV TS experiences).
>> Edited by pdV6 on Tuesday 29th June 10:12
TVR V8S 
What a hoot...
Top weekender car...Go for the Fiat - a nice straight 16v turbo won't cost you the earth and feels more sorted on the road (mostly because it isn't trying to tear the tarmac up as badly).
The 20V is a nicer engine on paper but trust me on this - you do *not* want to pay for the major servicing (I know it wasn't in the same car but the timing belt change set me back £1500). The Coupe was never designed to take the 5-pot and it shows on the bills! The 20V also stretches the chassis close to it's limits while the 16V just feels like a really good envolving drive and the engine is very well put together - it is the final evolution of the original fiat twin-cam engine and it *is* a corker.
The 20V is a nicer engine on paper but trust me on this - you do *not* want to pay for the major servicing (I know it wasn't in the same car but the timing belt change set me back £1500). The Coupe was never designed to take the 5-pot and it shows on the bills! The 20V also stretches the chassis close to it's limits while the 16V just feels like a really good envolving drive and the engine is very well put together - it is the final evolution of the original fiat twin-cam engine and it *is* a corker.
Hmmm,
I feel a need to interject here with feedback based on my own experiences and the almost unanimous opinion of all the road-tests I've read and the members of the Fiat Coupé Club.
Just some background: For the past couple of months I extensively research the Fiat Coupé 20v Turbo with the intention of getting one. I asked all the questions, read all the articles, and crawled through the forum archives digging out all sorts of info. Looked at a few cars (all 20v Turbos though) and eventually got a silver example last Tuesday. I love it.
Disclaimer: I know nothing at all about the Alfa, so I won't say anything about it.
£8k will buy you an absolutely immaculately pristine Coupé 20v Turbo. In fact, nobody even budgets £8k for a Coupé! £7k will already get you some of the most expensive examples out there (excluding the Plus and LE versions). Be a little bit smart and you can realistically get a corker for £5k - folks do this all the time. The prices for the Coupé are really really low, making the 220bhp Turbo extremely good value for money. With the prices for the 20v this low, my advice don't even consider the 16v.
Don't be scared by the big post £1k figure quoted by the previous poster. Firstly, any car you buy for your budget will almost certainly have had the cambelt done already. And even if it hasn't, there are specialists all over the country that will do it for £400-£600. And specialists for the Coupé are not just a cheap alternative for skint owners - they are entirely recommended. In fact one of the big advice lines from the owners forums is to NOT take your car to a Fiat dealer except for the easy stuff like spares and the like - for servicing and major work always go to the specialists because the numpties in the dealerships don't have a clue about the Coupé. "fFsh" is a bad thing.
Now to the car. Leather and aircon are the biggest options, and with your budget you will easily 100% definitely be able to get a car with both. The other option is an electric sunroof - some have 'em and some don't.
Comparions between the 16v and the 20v (from general opinion gathered from the likes of Autocar and folks experienced in both cars) - the 20v is more economical, quieter and refined. A bit more money to maintain, but not so much that it negates the benefits of the 5-pot over the 4. Also, production of the four pots stopped a long time ago, so if you want anything remotely recent you're gonna have to look for a 20v.
The 20v Turbo packs 220bhp and is a seriously stunning car. It comes with a viscous coupling and is boost limited in 1st and 2nd, so the car is by no means uncontrollable full-throttle in the earlier gears. It tears up tarmac a bit if you really go for it in the lower gears (as any car with that much power would), but it is genuinely composed and in the higher gears it is simply a treat to drive. Overtaking is a pleasure. The warble from the 5-pot is delicious - for a Fiat engine it really is nice. It is well built, and solid and very sturdy at speed. Grip and poise round the bends for a FWD car is astounding. Turbo lag is much improved over the 16v Turbo, though it is still there. Drive it smoothly though and you'll never get that jerk. Top end is a genuine 150mph, 0-60 in 6 secs.
Boot space and rear-seat space is good. It is border-line a genuine four-seater, not a roadster with pretend rear seats. Rear seats don't fold down, but there is a ski hatch.
The standard sound system is very good. In fact, I've heard cars three times the price with sound systems ten times worse.
Styling, horses for courses I guess. I personally love it. And think about silver as a colour, because it looks very classy in silver (but I'm biased). Though the cars are quite rare, so you may not be able to be completely fussy about colour. Also be prepared to travel and look at many cars, because there are about equal ratios abused and looked-after cars out there. Drive a few before settling on one.
Cons: Absoulutely horrid turning circle. You get used to it, but coming from almost any other car you will be shocked. If you don't do lots of tight parking lot squeezing, then it doesn't matter. Also, you have to keep a watch on the levels and temperatures. Nothing to get obsessed about, but weekly oil checks are recommended because they do guzzle oil. This is not a car you can get and forget about - it needs to be looked after.
Pros: Absolutely stonking performance. Get a well-looked after and well-specced one and build quality, economy, comfort and refinement are very surprising for the money you pay these days. Looks good, and still stands out (but the Alfa does too I guess). very tuneable if you're into that sort of thing.
A thriving owners forum exists, with loads of helpful members and frequent meets. The cars for sale section on the forum is also a great place to get good examples.
I think the bottom line is that you should drive a few examples of both the Alfa and the Fiat (and with regards to the Fiat, my advice is go for the 20VT and nothing else). If it's performance you want though (and being a PHer I trust it's one of your criteria), the Coupé 20VT will completely and resoundingly obliterate the GTV. 0-100 times are 14.5 vs 22.8 seconds. Word has it though that the handling in the GTV is better and more refined, but with such a performance deficit when compared to the Coupé, it hardly matters to me.
I know I've directly contradicted some earlier comments here, but I quite sure what I say is right (or at least the general consensus). Of course, corrections are welcome.
E-Mail me if you need any further advice.
Rudi
I feel a need to interject here with feedback based on my own experiences and the almost unanimous opinion of all the road-tests I've read and the members of the Fiat Coupé Club.
Just some background: For the past couple of months I extensively research the Fiat Coupé 20v Turbo with the intention of getting one. I asked all the questions, read all the articles, and crawled through the forum archives digging out all sorts of info. Looked at a few cars (all 20v Turbos though) and eventually got a silver example last Tuesday. I love it.
Disclaimer: I know nothing at all about the Alfa, so I won't say anything about it.
£8k will buy you an absolutely immaculately pristine Coupé 20v Turbo. In fact, nobody even budgets £8k for a Coupé! £7k will already get you some of the most expensive examples out there (excluding the Plus and LE versions). Be a little bit smart and you can realistically get a corker for £5k - folks do this all the time. The prices for the Coupé are really really low, making the 220bhp Turbo extremely good value for money. With the prices for the 20v this low, my advice don't even consider the 16v.
Don't be scared by the big post £1k figure quoted by the previous poster. Firstly, any car you buy for your budget will almost certainly have had the cambelt done already. And even if it hasn't, there are specialists all over the country that will do it for £400-£600. And specialists for the Coupé are not just a cheap alternative for skint owners - they are entirely recommended. In fact one of the big advice lines from the owners forums is to NOT take your car to a Fiat dealer except for the easy stuff like spares and the like - for servicing and major work always go to the specialists because the numpties in the dealerships don't have a clue about the Coupé. "fFsh" is a bad thing.
Now to the car. Leather and aircon are the biggest options, and with your budget you will easily 100% definitely be able to get a car with both. The other option is an electric sunroof - some have 'em and some don't.
Comparions between the 16v and the 20v (from general opinion gathered from the likes of Autocar and folks experienced in both cars) - the 20v is more economical, quieter and refined. A bit more money to maintain, but not so much that it negates the benefits of the 5-pot over the 4. Also, production of the four pots stopped a long time ago, so if you want anything remotely recent you're gonna have to look for a 20v.
The 20v Turbo packs 220bhp and is a seriously stunning car. It comes with a viscous coupling and is boost limited in 1st and 2nd, so the car is by no means uncontrollable full-throttle in the earlier gears. It tears up tarmac a bit if you really go for it in the lower gears (as any car with that much power would), but it is genuinely composed and in the higher gears it is simply a treat to drive. Overtaking is a pleasure. The warble from the 5-pot is delicious - for a Fiat engine it really is nice. It is well built, and solid and very sturdy at speed. Grip and poise round the bends for a FWD car is astounding. Turbo lag is much improved over the 16v Turbo, though it is still there. Drive it smoothly though and you'll never get that jerk. Top end is a genuine 150mph, 0-60 in 6 secs.
Boot space and rear-seat space is good. It is border-line a genuine four-seater, not a roadster with pretend rear seats. Rear seats don't fold down, but there is a ski hatch.
The standard sound system is very good. In fact, I've heard cars three times the price with sound systems ten times worse.
Styling, horses for courses I guess. I personally love it. And think about silver as a colour, because it looks very classy in silver (but I'm biased). Though the cars are quite rare, so you may not be able to be completely fussy about colour. Also be prepared to travel and look at many cars, because there are about equal ratios abused and looked-after cars out there. Drive a few before settling on one.
Cons: Absoulutely horrid turning circle. You get used to it, but coming from almost any other car you will be shocked. If you don't do lots of tight parking lot squeezing, then it doesn't matter. Also, you have to keep a watch on the levels and temperatures. Nothing to get obsessed about, but weekly oil checks are recommended because they do guzzle oil. This is not a car you can get and forget about - it needs to be looked after.
Pros: Absolutely stonking performance. Get a well-looked after and well-specced one and build quality, economy, comfort and refinement are very surprising for the money you pay these days. Looks good, and still stands out (but the Alfa does too I guess). very tuneable if you're into that sort of thing.
A thriving owners forum exists, with loads of helpful members and frequent meets. The cars for sale section on the forum is also a great place to get good examples.
I think the bottom line is that you should drive a few examples of both the Alfa and the Fiat (and with regards to the Fiat, my advice is go for the 20VT and nothing else). If it's performance you want though (and being a PHer I trust it's one of your criteria), the Coupé 20VT will completely and resoundingly obliterate the GTV. 0-100 times are 14.5 vs 22.8 seconds. Word has it though that the handling in the GTV is better and more refined, but with such a performance deficit when compared to the Coupé, it hardly matters to me.
I know I've directly contradicted some earlier comments here, but I quite sure what I say is right (or at least the general consensus). Of course, corrections are welcome.
E-Mail me if you need any further advice.
Rudi
Thanks for the response, guys!
I've had a quick look at one 20v turbo (in a bright blue, which I didn't get on with), and a GTV V6. Have yet to arrange a test drive in either (was on my lunch break, so had no time).
Inital thoughts?
Both cars were of average miles for the year, but the leather was REALLY worn on both. I suppose I could get a re-trim, but it really surprised me that the leather should be cracked.
Looks wise, I prefer the GTV to the 'standard' Fiat coupe, but with the Fiat body kit fitted the 20v almost edges ahead.
Still 50/50 at the moment - I'm planning on looking at another V6 over the weekend, and I'll drive that one. The Fiat I'm interested in is arriving at the garage next week sometime, and I'll have a go in it then.
You mention that the Fiat uses oil (the Alfa is supposed to do the same) - is it a chore to have to keep checking the oil levels? It started to get a bit much on the old GTV, I think...
Also, whilst I'm asking - how will the cars react to sitting around? It'll be a weekend car to get me out of Lonond, really, with maybe a couple of short trips during the week. Would they survive this, do you think, or should I get something dull and Japanese?
Cheers,
Dan
I've had a quick look at one 20v turbo (in a bright blue, which I didn't get on with), and a GTV V6. Have yet to arrange a test drive in either (was on my lunch break, so had no time).
Inital thoughts?
Both cars were of average miles for the year, but the leather was REALLY worn on both. I suppose I could get a re-trim, but it really surprised me that the leather should be cracked.
Looks wise, I prefer the GTV to the 'standard' Fiat coupe, but with the Fiat body kit fitted the 20v almost edges ahead.
Still 50/50 at the moment - I'm planning on looking at another V6 over the weekend, and I'll drive that one. The Fiat I'm interested in is arriving at the garage next week sometime, and I'll have a go in it then.
You mention that the Fiat uses oil (the Alfa is supposed to do the same) - is it a chore to have to keep checking the oil levels? It started to get a bit much on the old GTV, I think...
Also, whilst I'm asking - how will the cars react to sitting around? It'll be a weekend car to get me out of Lonond, really, with maybe a couple of short trips during the week. Would they survive this, do you think, or should I get something dull and Japanese?
Cheers,
Dan
Cue the Corrado VR6, though the styling isn't a patch on the Italian cars. Good car though.
Nah, as I said oil levels are not something to be obsessed about. If it's only going to be a weekend car, checking the dipstick every 2 or 3 weeks will suffice.
I don't forsee a problem with the car standing still in between uses either.
The leather in my car (68k miles) is in very good condition. There are a couple of really tiny wear marks on the side of the drivers seat, but no cracks whatsoever.
Coupés in very good condition do exist, but you have to find them. Find one though, and it's a real treat.
Good luck.
Rudi
PS - pop-down to Bristol if you want and I'll give you a drive in my Coop. Condition is brill, so you'll know what you should be afer. And Sprint Blue is awful - the classic colours (black, silver, maroon) really do elevate the car from boy-racerish to exotic steedmobile. Also, I think the nature of the owner who buys a bright red or blue Coupe will be very different to one who gets a silver one...
Nah, as I said oil levels are not something to be obsessed about. If it's only going to be a weekend car, checking the dipstick every 2 or 3 weeks will suffice.
I don't forsee a problem with the car standing still in between uses either.
The leather in my car (68k miles) is in very good condition. There are a couple of really tiny wear marks on the side of the drivers seat, but no cracks whatsoever.
Coupés in very good condition do exist, but you have to find them. Find one though, and it's a real treat.
Good luck.
Rudi
PS - pop-down to Bristol if you want and I'll give you a drive in my Coop. Condition is brill, so you'll know what you should be afer. And Sprint Blue is awful - the classic colours (black, silver, maroon) really do elevate the car from boy-racerish to exotic steedmobile. Also, I think the nature of the owner who buys a bright red or blue Coupe will be very different to one who gets a silver one...
DanL said:
Looks wise, I prefer the GTV to the 'standard' Fiat coupe, but with the Fiat body kit fitted the 20v almost edges ahead.
There's a few nice (and lots of no-so-nice) kits for the GTV as well, if that's your thing.
Good luck with the test drives... looks aside, it may come down to whether you prefer the power delivery of the turbo or the V6.
Yeah - a black V6 I looked at had a nice subtle kit on it. I'm not really into body styling (it's all a bit Max Power for my taste normally), but I don't really like the look of the Fiat Coupe in 'standard' form. With the 'slashed' side skirts and lip spoiler the design looks a lot more cohesive though.
Still, in the eye of the beholder and all that...
Will have to wait and see. Heart says GTV, head says Fiat at the mo, for some reason. (Well, that's not quite true - head says Corrado or Golf, by never mind!).
Dan
Still, in the eye of the beholder and all that...
Will have to wait and see. Heart says GTV, head says Fiat at the mo, for some reason. (Well, that's not quite true - head says Corrado or Golf, by never mind!).
Dan
vantagelover said:The one and only: the Fiat Coupé Club UK forums.
Hi Deadlock.
You mention the Coupe forum being really helpful, and having cars for sale. Which one do you mean, as there seem to be several?
www.fccuk.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php
D
JonRB said:I missed this, for some reason.
If you're considering a powerful FWD coupe then I'd be interested to know why the Corrado VR6 isn't on your shopping list.
The VR6 - when I were a lad (etc, etc) it was the car to have, and I sort of hanker after one now. However, they're rather old these days, and I suspect that this would involve some significant maintenance. Also, they do look a little dated.
Granted I've not tried one, and they do have an excellent rep, but something in me baulks at paying 7k for a 10 year old car that only cost 20 or so new.
Dan
DanL said:
However, they're rather old these days, and I suspect that this would involve some significant maintenance. Also, they do look a little dated.
Well, I can't deny that the looks have dated a little, but in a sort of modern classic way. At a risk of offending some PHers, I fear that the Fiat has worn the years less well. I was somewhat dubious about the slashes over the wheelarches when the car was new and I feel that they really date the car now. But I stress that is just my opinion.
However, they are not expensive to maintain. Mine has cost next to nothing - check my profile. If you get a good one they're very reasonable to run, although a do acknowledge that if you get a bad one then they can be somwhat expensive. Just ask Glenn Cooper (are you lurking, Glenn?)
DanL said:
Granted I've not tried one, and they do have an excellent rep, but something in me baulks at paying 7k for a 10 year old car that only cost 20 or so new.
Ah, but one of the marks of a desirable car is how well it holds its value.
Look on the bright side, at least it hasn't held its value was well as the Elan M100. You'll pay £8k for a 14 year-old car that cost £19k when new. We did.
>> Edited by JonRB on Thursday 1st July 22:53
JonRB said:
But I stress that is just my opinion.
And one you are completely entitled to.
The Fiat seems to have a 50:50 love it / loathe it split - good 'ol Bangle carries styling controversy with him wherever he goes.
The detailing is nice though, I think. The stealth door handles, body-coloured interior panel and that in-yer-face fuel filler cap are all big pluses for me.
One thing is for sure - the Fiat, Alfa and the Corrado are all reasonably rare and quite competent at what they do. So whichever one you choose, you've done well.
D
OK, I'll declare an interest to begin - I've had a Fiat Coupe 20VT for the last 4 years or so, and I love it. But I'm an Alfa man at heart - had several over the years - and the GTV would be my second choice. Basically, I think DeaDlocK has said it pretty well. Buy a good example of either one & you'll enjoy it. For me, the Fiat scores on practicality - it has a proper boot & four seats & I've even taken it on a family holiday (2 adults & 2 kids) to the South of France. More enjoyably, the turbo engine is a corker. That surge of power that sweeps you past anything on a motorway is seriously addictive. I really don't think you could find any other car that's this much fun for the price. And there's nothing wrong with the handling - I take mine on trackdays. It's reliable & actually mine doesn't use oil - only 1 litre per 3000 mls (that's not a typo). They seem to either drink oil or use very little - either way, it doesn't matter as long as you check it. So go for the Fiat - or if you prefer the looks, get the Alfa.
Cheers once again folks. I'm still inclined towards the Fiat (assuming I can bolt on the skirts from a LE/Plus version!), but there are very few for sale!
On the other hand, there's a lovely black V6 GTV for sale 10 minutes walk from my office, with my name all over it... Tricky.
I'll keep looking (the garage that's got the GTV is supposed to be getting a black 20vT in shortly), but I'm starting to loose hope of finding one.
Any suggested places to look (other than Autotrader)? I've had a look at the for sale section of FCCUK.org, but the ones for sale at the mo are either not close to me, out of budget, or in the 'wrong' colour (am after a dark metallic, ideally). Hey ho.
Dan
On the other hand, there's a lovely black V6 GTV for sale 10 minutes walk from my office, with my name all over it... Tricky.
I'll keep looking (the garage that's got the GTV is supposed to be getting a black 20vT in shortly), but I'm starting to loose hope of finding one.
Any suggested places to look (other than Autotrader)? I've had a look at the for sale section of FCCUK.org, but the ones for sale at the mo are either not close to me, out of budget, or in the 'wrong' colour (am after a dark metallic, ideally). Hey ho.
Dan
DanL said:
Any suggested places to look (other than Autotrader)?
Dan
Try www.findit.co.uk There are qhite a few for sale including good colours and LE's.
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