Alfa engine choice, HELP!
Discussion
Hello for the first time on this forum.
I've always wanted an Alfa but somehow never got around to it. Anyhow, good news is the missus is tired of her Mini (hooray!) and decided to let me choose the next motor, so its Sportwagon or 147 here we come.
I've read the past posts, checked out other websites, and gone through my Alfa brochure collection (yes I've wanted one that long) so that now I know I want a Sportwagon with the facelift interior but older exterior (2003-5?), or a 147 4 door. The trim spec is hard enough to decipher, and I think I have a handle on my Veloces and Turismos, but the thing I can't make my mind up on is the engine choice.
Just what is the "ideal" engine?? There are a few 1.6s at temptingly low prices, but my head tells me to keep to something bigger, at least a 1.8. I did fancy a V6 after hearing one belting down the bypass, but a dealer said he didn't touch them, why? The same dealer said he couldn't get enough JTDs in, although I must admit I had a big disappointment last time I tried a "sporty" diesel (Peugeot 406 coupe).
Any advice from personal experience would be appreciated.
>> Edited by britten_mark on Saturday 4th March 16:46
>> Edited by britten_mark on Saturday 4th March 16:47
I've always wanted an Alfa but somehow never got around to it. Anyhow, good news is the missus is tired of her Mini (hooray!) and decided to let me choose the next motor, so its Sportwagon or 147 here we come.
I've read the past posts, checked out other websites, and gone through my Alfa brochure collection (yes I've wanted one that long) so that now I know I want a Sportwagon with the facelift interior but older exterior (2003-5?), or a 147 4 door. The trim spec is hard enough to decipher, and I think I have a handle on my Veloces and Turismos, but the thing I can't make my mind up on is the engine choice.
Just what is the "ideal" engine?? There are a few 1.6s at temptingly low prices, but my head tells me to keep to something bigger, at least a 1.8. I did fancy a V6 after hearing one belting down the bypass, but a dealer said he didn't touch them, why? The same dealer said he couldn't get enough JTDs in, although I must admit I had a big disappointment last time I tried a "sporty" diesel (Peugeot 406 coupe).
Any advice from personal experience would be appreciated.
>> Edited by britten_mark on Saturday 4th March 16:46
>> Edited by britten_mark on Saturday 4th March 16:47
I'm looking at an older GTV at the moment, and sitting with the indecision of looking at the 2.0lt Twin Spark or the 3.0V6.
By all accounts the V6 needs some pampering with regular, relatively expensive, services and can experience some breakages in the form of Air Flow Meters. On the other side, the cambelt is changed every 60k or so, the 6 spark plugs at 72k.
The TS is a little more high maintaince with cam belts at 32k, 8plugs at 60k and similiar service pricing.
The plugs are platinum tipped as well, so cost > £12 each.
By all accounts the V6 needs some pampering with regular, relatively expensive, services and can experience some breakages in the form of Air Flow Meters. On the other side, the cambelt is changed every 60k or so, the 6 spark plugs at 72k.
The TS is a little more high maintaince with cam belts at 32k, 8plugs at 60k and similiar service pricing.
The plugs are platinum tipped as well, so cost > £12 each.
I did fancy a V6 after hearing one belting down the bypass, but a dealer said he didn't touch them, why?
Difficult to sell on I'd imagine; the V6 is a f. strong engine that's been around in one way, shape or form for eons; think of it as the Italians answer to the small-block Chevy or the Rover V8 in that respect. However, like it's V8 brethen it's a thirtsy búgger which puts people off.
Go for the V6; granted it's not got the low-down torque nor the econnzzzzzzzz...
...
...sorry, where was I? Ah yes, diesels.
Buy the V6 just for the noise and the performance. Plus with the new "Alfa" V6 it may well be your last chance to own the real Alfa V6; you've plenty of time to be boring and buy a diesel.
Let me put it to you this way; Cheryl Tweedy for one passion-fueled, downright dirty weekend, or a lifetime with a libraian to whom the idea of "adventurous" is showing her ankles beneath her skirt?
Exactly.
Just the thought of 1.6 in an Alfa Sportwagon makes me cry; it can just about haul its own weight along, never mind fully-laden whilst doing estate-type-stuff. 2.0 as a minimum, but V6 if you can.
>> Edited by SCOOTERMAN on Saturday 4th March 15:40
>> Edited by SCOOTERMAN on Saturday 4th March 15:42
Difficult to sell on I'd imagine; the V6 is a f. strong engine that's been around in one way, shape or form for eons; think of it as the Italians answer to the small-block Chevy or the Rover V8 in that respect. However, like it's V8 brethen it's a thirtsy búgger which puts people off.
Go for the V6; granted it's not got the low-down torque nor the econnzzzzzzzz...
...
...sorry, where was I? Ah yes, diesels.
Buy the V6 just for the noise and the performance. Plus with the new "Alfa" V6 it may well be your last chance to own the real Alfa V6; you've plenty of time to be boring and buy a diesel.
Let me put it to you this way; Cheryl Tweedy for one passion-fueled, downright dirty weekend, or a lifetime with a libraian to whom the idea of "adventurous" is showing her ankles beneath her skirt?
Exactly.
Just the thought of 1.6 in an Alfa Sportwagon makes me cry; it can just about haul its own weight along, never mind fully-laden whilst doing estate-type-stuff. 2.0 as a minimum, but V6 if you can.
>> Edited by SCOOTERMAN on Saturday 4th March 15:40
>> Edited by SCOOTERMAN on Saturday 4th March 15:42
V6=
When i was looking i tried a couple of 2.0TS they were ok, but once you've driven one and heard it growl you'll never want a 4cyl again!
anyway thats what happened to me
even on the motorway in 6th it'll give a subdued burble when you put your foot down, just to remind you that your driving some thing special
so do not want to jinks myself but the only problem i've had has been a rear wiper motor go (nothing to do with the engine)
only selling cos i can now afford to insure a poping and banging Cerbera which will mean more
Mark - mine's probably too old for you, but if your ever in notts i'm more than happy to take you for a drive to help you make your mind up!
your only problem now its trying to find one.... it too me ages!
<<<<www.pistonheads.com/sales/67094.htm>>>
When i was looking i tried a couple of 2.0TS they were ok, but once you've driven one and heard it growl you'll never want a 4cyl again!
anyway thats what happened to me
even on the motorway in 6th it'll give a subdued burble when you put your foot down, just to remind you that your driving some thing special
so do not want to jinks myself but the only problem i've had has been a rear wiper motor go (nothing to do with the engine)
only selling cos i can now afford to insure a poping and banging Cerbera which will mean more
Mark - mine's probably too old for you, but if your ever in notts i'm more than happy to take you for a drive to help you make your mind up!
your only problem now its trying to find one.... it too me ages!
<<<<www.pistonheads.com/sales/67094.htm>>>
Hi Custard
I did see yours the other day, and have to say it is very smart, so smart I showed the missus and saved the picture. It even has the "D" hole Alfa accessory alloys that I HAVE to fit after buying one (always liked them) thus saving £700! Unfortunately had a bereavement in the family so been distracted of late, but I was going to email you and ask about whether it has had the biggie service (belts and "solid gold" spark plugs etc etc). The only thing I don't like about the pre 2002 cars is the dash, ie cheapish looking plastics, wood trim, and woddrim wheel. I see from the catalogues that alternatives were available (black/carbon) so I suppose a retrofit is possible. The steering wheel would be a bit harder though?
>> Edited by britten_mark on Sunday 5th March 23:16
>> Edited by britten_mark on Sunday 5th March 23:21
I did see yours the other day, and have to say it is very smart, so smart I showed the missus and saved the picture. It even has the "D" hole Alfa accessory alloys that I HAVE to fit after buying one (always liked them) thus saving £700! Unfortunately had a bereavement in the family so been distracted of late, but I was going to email you and ask about whether it has had the biggie service (belts and "solid gold" spark plugs etc etc). The only thing I don't like about the pre 2002 cars is the dash, ie cheapish looking plastics, wood trim, and woddrim wheel. I see from the catalogues that alternatives were available (black/carbon) so I suppose a retrofit is possible. The steering wheel would be a bit harder though?
>> Edited by britten_mark on Sunday 5th March 23:16
>> Edited by britten_mark on Sunday 5th March 23:21
Mark you have mail with more details of my car.
If any one needs to get the centre consol out of a 156 there is a guide if you go into the tips section of this site:
www.alfa156.net/
cheers
Paul
If any one needs to get the centre consol out of a 156 there is a guide if you go into the tips section of this site:
www.alfa156.net/
cheers
Paul
What a cracking site, can't believe I haven't come across that before. There are some pretty inspiring "reader's rides" type pictures.
I always think that the mark of a truly great design is when a car looks good in a multitude of colours and guises, not just like "they look good in black" or something (ie which just means you like black). The 156 is all that.
I always think that the mark of a truly great design is when a car looks good in a multitude of colours and guises, not just like "they look good in black" or something (ie which just means you like black). The 156 is all that.
docevi1 said:
I'm looking at an older GTV at the moment, and sitting with the indecision of looking at the 2.0lt Twin Spark or the 3.0V6.
By all accounts the V6 needs some pampering with regular, relatively expensive, services and can experience some breakages in the form of Air Flow Meters. On the other side, the cambelt is changed every 60k or so, the 6 spark plugs at 72k.
The TS is a little more high maintaince with cam belts at 32k, 8plugs at 60k and similiar service pricing.
The plugs are platinum tipped as well, so cost > £12 each.
The V6 might not cost as much to maintain as you think. I've got a 156 2.5 V6, so similar engine.
I got 6 Champion Platinum tipped spark plugs off eBay - £36
I got a cambelt kit and waterpump for £227 and fitted by my local Alfa specialist for £200+VAT - Alfa main dealer quoted over £800 for this job.
The biggest downside in my opinion is the fuel. Mine does 20 MPG on a good month, but I do make lots of small trips to work etc, which doesn't help.
britten_mark said:
Hello for the first time on this forum.
so that now I know I want a Sportwagon with the facelift interior but older exterior (2003-5
Good choice!!
The facelift came in about June 2002 and lasted until the big nose 156 came out round about January 2004. (I think).
Perfect engine? V6 or 2.4JTD are the strongest and most satisfying, but are both heavy. 2.0TS is lighter but more fragile. There is no "must have" engine. Even the 1.6 tries hard and loves to rev. Whatever engine you end up with, you will be getting the most elegant mass produced car of modern times.
I've got a Sportwagon 2.0TS and it's a lovely engine - happy to rev, but I still get just the right side of 30mpg out of it. I never tried a V6 in the end as there aren't so many around as Sportwagons and the 2.0TS came up at the right time - but the engine still sounds good and the acceleration is good enough if you're prepared to use the gears - in 2nd to 60 sounds brilliant. It's probably a bit lacking in torque, and some people say it's not a great long-distance cruiser, but I have no problems, and in 5th (no 6th gear) it sits happily on the maximum torque band at 80-85ish.
It will be used a lot of the time by my missus for a daily commute, plenty of cross town action and a ride down the M-way). She always says she doesn't drive fast, yet the last 2 cars bought with that principle in mind (Corsa and Mini) have both lasted a matter of months. I'm sure Alfa wouldn't make a slow car, and presume the different-yet-daftly-similar 1.6-1.8-2.0 combos are more to do with company car tax threshholds than economy. There are a couple of highly specced 1,6 Turismos on Autotrader, but worried about the familiar "I can't overtake" whine from the better half. Need a test drive, but the nearest dealer (Benfield Newcastle) are a pain in the arse...."Oh you want to DRIVE one..well theres a demo hack out the back...oh no the bodyshop blokes took it home. Can you come back midweek??"
I have a 2000 2.0 tspark (saloon) and find it great as an everyday car. Borrowed a 1.6 sportwagon whilst mine was being serviced and whilst it was OK to get me around I certainly noticed the lack of power compared to my 2.0. I wouldn't look at it again.
The servicing is a bit heavy on the wallet - the cambelts need replacing every 36k and the variator can be a little fragile especially if you don't keep an eye on the oil level, and they seem to drink more than the average car in oil.
I've had the 2.0 from new and although it's getting on a bit I can't think of another car I would rather have.
Not driven a v6 because if I did I would probably have to have it just to hear that noise.... by all accounts it's a much heavier engine and makes the front end a bit heavy.
Heard lots of good things about the diesel and you can chip it quite easily and get a useful boost to the power output quite easily.
Colin
The servicing is a bit heavy on the wallet - the cambelts need replacing every 36k and the variator can be a little fragile especially if you don't keep an eye on the oil level, and they seem to drink more than the average car in oil.
I've had the 2.0 from new and although it's getting on a bit I can't think of another car I would rather have.
Not driven a v6 because if I did I would probably have to have it just to hear that noise.... by all accounts it's a much heavier engine and makes the front end a bit heavy.
Heard lots of good things about the diesel and you can chip it quite easily and get a useful boost to the power output quite easily.
Colin
On the way to look at a couple of cars, top choice is a 15000 mile 05 plate, not my favourite shape (prefer the old nose) but the spec is pretty fantastic. Engine is a 1.9 JTD Multijet, anything to watch out for??? the stated bhp is 150 vs 165 for the 2.0 JTS so assuming its just whether I can get used to the style of power delivery. The very close 2nd choice is a 2003 2.0JTS Veloce, private sale so much cheaper, but I think it may be gone by the end of today. Quite a lot of miles for a 2+ year old car too. I'm also going to have a drive of a 1.6 twinspark just for reference, but not expecting too much to be honest.
Had a look at a couple of old high mileage hounds at the weekend, again for reference, and quite impressed at how well they had worn.
Looking forward to joining the ranks of Alfisti (is that the right word?) soon.
Had a look at a couple of old high mileage hounds at the weekend, again for reference, and quite impressed at how well they had worn.
Looking forward to joining the ranks of Alfisti (is that the right word?) soon.
SCOOTERMAN said:
Let me put it to you this way; Cheryl Tweedy for one passion-fueled, downright dirty weekend, or a lifetime with a libraian to whom the idea of "adventurous" is showing her ankles beneath her skirt?
Exactly.
>> Edited by SCOOTERMAN on Saturday 4th March 15:40
>> Edited by SCOOTERMAN on Saturday 4th March 15:42
Cheryl Tweedy every time.
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