Integrale help!
Discussion
You're likely to find some good information here: http://forums.delphiforums.com/evofor
If you're going to do a lot of work to it and make it a track day special, I reckon you might as well start with a 16v (non-evo) for cheapness. Spend money on Cage, seats + harnesses, lightness and brakes
If you're going to do a lot of work to it and make it a track day special, I reckon you might as well start with a 16v (non-evo) for cheapness. Spend money on Cage, seats + harnesses, lightness and brakes
rustybin said:
Fabulous cars but a strange choice for a 'ring special I would have thought. What has lead you to it?
Sorry I cant help on your specific questions but I thought I'd ask while we wait for someone with the answers to turn up
Sorry I cant help on your specific questions but I thought I'd ask while we wait for someone with the answers to turn up
I used to own a Y10 (Yes I know.. It's a Panda in drag). I grew up on Lancia's, (Fulvia, Flavia Coupe, Prisma, Thema) and apart from the Thema, thought that they were all superb cars. I've always held a soft spot for the Integrale but was previously never able to afford one and now that they are becoming slightly more accessible I'd like to own one.
You ask why a ring toy... Well..
I came back from the ring a couple of weeks ago after having a thoroughly excellent time with the Cooper S. With suitable rubber the S out corners some seriously expensive German machinery but it lacks quite a bit on the straights and it's my daily driver so I don't really want to hoon it to the point of destruction. So after much teeth gnashing I thought that I probably would struggle to find a FWD car with similar power to weight and handling as the Mini for under 10k. RWD is very much out as I've never driven a RWD car (apart from a LWB Tranny) and thus don't favour the idea of stuffing said track toy into a tree or armco. So that kind of leaves me with a 4x4 car.. Most rice rockets are out as they are too expensive. Others are out because they are far too fragile. So where does that leave me? With an Integrale
mini_ralf said:
rustybin said:
Fabulous cars but a strange choice for a 'ring special I would have thought. What has lead you to it?
Sorry I cant help on your specific questions but I thought I'd ask while we wait for someone with the answers to turn up
Sorry I cant help on your specific questions but I thought I'd ask while we wait for someone with the answers to turn up
I used to own a Y10 (Yes I know.. It's a Panda in drag). I grew up on Lancia's, (Fulvia, Flavia Coupe, Prisma, Thema) and apart from the Thema, thought that they were all superb cars. I've always held a soft spot for the Integrale but was previously never able to afford one and now that they are becoming slightly more accessible I'd like to own one.
You ask why a ring toy... Well..
I came back from the ring a couple of weeks ago after having a thoroughly excellent time with the Cooper S. With suitable rubber the S out corners some seriously expensive German machinery but it lacks quite a bit on the straights and it's my daily driver so I don't really want to hoon it to the point of destruction. So after much teeth gnashing I thought that I probably would struggle to find a FWD car with similar power to weight and handling as the Mini for under 10k. RWD is very much out as I've never driven a RWD car (apart from a LWB Tranny) and thus don't favour the idea of stuffing said track toy into a tree or armco. So that kind of leaves me with a 4x4 car.. Most rice rockets are out as they are too expensive. Others are out because they are far too fragile. So where does that leave me? With an Integrale
Right, see where you are coming from. Only problem I can see with it is the economics. I reckon a track sorted integrale will cost a bit to get tough enough for the ring and maintain. They are fairly exotic beasties after all and getting on a bit now.
As a dyed in the wool Italian car fan I would have gone down a similar route but economics lead me to an Impreza. £5k will get you into a late (99/00) Classic with the right mods done for track days. Tuning parts are cheap and the development path for trackdays well understood. There's nowhere near the class of the Integrale but I reckon as a long term proposition you would be looking at half the cost. Unless you spend a lot on the Integrale and sacrifice reliability, the impreza will be quicker too.
Good luck either way.
rustybin said:
Right, see where you are coming from. Only problem I can see with it is the economics. I reckon a track sorted integrale will cost a bit to get tough enough for the ring and maintain. They are fairly exotic beasties after all and getting on a bit now.
As a dyed in the wool Italian car fan I would have gone down a similar route but economics lead me to an Impreza. £5k will get you into a late (99/00) Classic with the right mods done for track days. Tuning parts are cheap and the development path for trackdays well understood. There's nowhere near the class of the Integrale but I reckon as a long term proposition you would be looking at half the cost. Unless you spend a lot on the Integrale and sacrifice reliability, the impreza will be quicker too.
Good luck either way.
I came to a similar conclusion and thought of a scooby but have been told but quite a few people that the Impreza is fragile. My argument against this was their number of rally wins, until it was pointed out to me that almost every time they reached a servicing stage most of the car was replaced. The old man now owns a Sccoby Forester and constantly complains about the high servicing and bits replacements costs.. So that kind of ruled out scooby.
mini_ralf said:
I came to a similar conclusion and thought of a scooby but have been told but quite a few people that the Impreza is fragile. My argument against this was their number of rally wins, until it was pointed out to me that almost every time they reached a servicing stage most of the car was replaced. The old man now owns a Sccoby Forester and constantly complains about the high servicing and bits replacements costs.. So that kind of ruled out scooby.
It's all relative. Scoobs need a little bit of looking after but compared to a Mixabitsi they are as reliable and undemanding as a house brick. The weak points are removed as part of the track prep process; after that anything you track has to have a very very regular service interval so it blends a little. You can always choose the upgrade to reduce the running cost. You are also likely to get replacements for scoob bits cheaply through breakers / ebay etc. A replacement engine will only set you back a couple of grand, probably less the case for the Integrale. My car has been doing track days since its first owner bought it. I am the third owner and it has done 110,000 miles many of the on track. It's got bigger brakes, roll cage , big exhaust, bigger turbo, coil overs etc. etc. but it is still my daily driver and only set me back 6k a year ago along with a pile of spares and tyres. They're tough beggars, honest.
justayellowbadge said:
mini_ralf said:
I used to own a Y10 (Yes I know.. It's a Panda in drag). I grew up on Lancia's, (Fulvia, Flavia Coupe, Prisma, Thema) and apart from the Thema, thought that they were all superb cars.
Oi! Outside.. 
I never really got on with the Thema. The 8:32 was an awsome piece of kit and probably the only Thema worth buying. However the old man used to run a 2ltr Auto. The gearbox had to be rebuilt twice and was constantly hunting for gears. The bodywork was so bad he regretted getting rid of his Prisma. Maybe he had a Friday afternoon car... That's the reason why I was never keen on Thema's.
I take my Grale to the ring several times a year. It's not the quiclkes thing, but it's great fun, especially in the wet.
Ron's power steering pump from his track 16v Grale is currently in my car from last weekend
LexSport said:
If you're serious about it, it may be worth having a chat to Ron Simmons of the 75Experience as he has a beautiful white Integrale and knows a thing or two about getting cars around the 'Ring.
Ron's power steering pump from his track 16v Grale is currently in my car from last weekend
Krisjamesegan said:
Evo 2, nothing needs changing, will still cane the life out of most cars that will be on the ring as standard, however a pal of mine has one running a reliable 320 ish BHP built by John Walkers in York and nothing even comes close to that now,
And what about on a wet ring ;-)
Krisjamesegan said:
Evo 2, nothing needs changing, will still cane the life out of most cars that will be on the ring as standard, however a pal of mine has one running a reliable 320 ish BHP built by John Walkers in York and nothing even comes close to that now,
Evo2 would be a waste of money for a track tool. It is near enough identicle mechanically to an Evo1 (except has a smaller turbo, cat, etc) but costs 1000s more. And if you can live without the Evo looks, 16vs are even cheaper and the running gear is again the same. Although track is narrower and there are some other small suspension differences. But many people claim that the Evo understeers more.
As for not having to replace anything - you will still want at least cage, buckets, harnesses, pads (and maybe a complete brake upgrade as the stds aren't amazing) and possibly/probably (depending on your tastes I guess) uprated suspension.
Cheers
Mike
Forums | Alfa Romeo, Fiat & Lancia | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff