156 GTA - help me make a case
Discussion
I'm considering opting out of my co car scheme and would love to get back into an Alfa.
My budget is flexible and I'm considering all options but an '03 156 GTA for circa £11k looks like good sense.
3 things will makes or break the decision for me:
1) what is it going to cost me to run - servicing, tyres, etc...I cover 20k hard driven miles a year
2) what will it be worth in 3yrs? (6yrs old, 90k miles)
3) my next door neighbour is an independent Fiat/Alfa mechanic - sounds good but he spends more time on Pandas than Breras so I wondered how much of the maintenance/servicing I could realistically expect him to do?
My budget is flexible and I'm considering all options but an '03 156 GTA for circa £11k looks like good sense.
3 things will makes or break the decision for me:
1) what is it going to cost me to run - servicing, tyres, etc...I cover 20k hard driven miles a year
2) what will it be worth in 3yrs? (6yrs old, 90k miles)
3) my next door neighbour is an independent Fiat/Alfa mechanic - sounds good but he spends more time on Pandas than Breras so I wondered how much of the maintenance/servicing I could realistically expect him to do?
Edited by alfaspiderman2 on Tuesday 31st October 11:05
Mmm, well, I'm assuming they are not the only criteria - i.e. you do care at least a bit what it looks like and drives like, in which case I'm honour-bound to point out that it's a stunning car to drive, decently comfortable too, very well equipped, and is basically a zillion times better than certain sectors of the UK press suggested. See this link for my inane musings:
www.auto-journals.com/s2/content/journals.html
In terms of running costs, it's pretty standard 156 V6 fare really. Mechanically very strong except for the suspension that may need new bushes every 50k (or less if you hammer speed bumps). Not expensive though. Servicing is expensive at certain services - 60 and 72k will both cost a few bob at a dealer - if out of warranty you'd be mad to use a dealer IMHO. Engine, gearbox and clutch should last ages, the niggles are not many or serious. Expect 4 new tyres every 24k or so - at 225/45/17 they don't cost the earth. Economy will be in the 22-28mpg range, most likely, long trips will yield 30mpg.
Depreciation-wise, initial depreciation was huge on these (and many, like me, bought new for well under list) but they seem to hold around the £10k mark - sub £10k GTA's are very rare and probably just the worst examples. With only a few hundred sold in the UK and very happy owners, this bodes well.
If you've got any specific questions let me know - overall I'd suggest that in terms of looks, performance, and equipment it's a serious bargain - your £11k should pick up a 2003 car. Good luck!
www.auto-journals.com/s2/content/journals.html
In terms of running costs, it's pretty standard 156 V6 fare really. Mechanically very strong except for the suspension that may need new bushes every 50k (or less if you hammer speed bumps). Not expensive though. Servicing is expensive at certain services - 60 and 72k will both cost a few bob at a dealer - if out of warranty you'd be mad to use a dealer IMHO. Engine, gearbox and clutch should last ages, the niggles are not many or serious. Expect 4 new tyres every 24k or so - at 225/45/17 they don't cost the earth. Economy will be in the 22-28mpg range, most likely, long trips will yield 30mpg.
Depreciation-wise, initial depreciation was huge on these (and many, like me, bought new for well under list) but they seem to hold around the £10k mark - sub £10k GTA's are very rare and probably just the worst examples. With only a few hundred sold in the UK and very happy owners, this bodes well.
If you've got any specific questions let me know - overall I'd suggest that in terms of looks, performance, and equipment it's a serious bargain - your £11k should pick up a 2003 car. Good luck!
Edited by jwyatt on Tuesday 31st October 14:47
Edited by jwyatt on Tuesday 31st October 17:05
Hmm, I counted on a response from you JWyatt....you seems like the man to ask on GTAs and I've read your pieces on Autojounals.
My nickname should tell you that i have some Alfa experience (a 2.0 Spider from '01 to '03) and that's the kind of driver enjoyment that I looking to re-kindle - although that's a part of my problem really, the Spider was a brand new company car and I drove it without fear of breakages and electical gremlins (not that there actually were that many)
Sadly, my firm no longer allows Alfas as co cars (dealer service being the main reason) otherwise a new 159 would be winging it's way to my drive-way sometime soon i believe
Which brings me to where I am with a used GTA. I could go newer and more expensive but I wonder why I should bother when £11k buys a nice low milegage one that's done it's depreciation crest.
No way my car will go near a main dealer. I've looked at a couple of independents (one in Fareham and Black&White in Newbury) and both confirm your broad costings for servicing etc. To be honest, Black and White looks like a good place to uy from
you ducked the question by the way - what do you reckon a 6yr old 90k miler will be worth...I reckon £4k...any advance?
My nickname should tell you that i have some Alfa experience (a 2.0 Spider from '01 to '03) and that's the kind of driver enjoyment that I looking to re-kindle - although that's a part of my problem really, the Spider was a brand new company car and I drove it without fear of breakages and electical gremlins (not that there actually were that many)
Sadly, my firm no longer allows Alfas as co cars (dealer service being the main reason) otherwise a new 159 would be winging it's way to my drive-way sometime soon i believe
Which brings me to where I am with a used GTA. I could go newer and more expensive but I wonder why I should bother when £11k buys a nice low milegage one that's done it's depreciation crest.
No way my car will go near a main dealer. I've looked at a couple of independents (one in Fareham and Black&White in Newbury) and both confirm your broad costings for servicing etc. To be honest, Black and White looks like a good place to uy from
you ducked the question by the way - what do you reckon a 6yr old 90k miler will be worth...I reckon £4k...any advance?
a) alot
b) nothing
c) I wouldn't count on it.
Even my 2.5 V6 has cost be a fair wedge, approx £1k in the last year, which includes new front tyres, cambelt service and a few odds and sods. They are not cheap cars to run, which is why, I guess, the GTA has depreciated like a stone. You're right when you say that they seem to have bottomed out at about £10k though - maybe that's the price to aim at. I have to admit, they are superb cars to look at and if my 2.5 V6 is anything to go by the GTA must be fabulous to own.
b) nothing
c) I wouldn't count on it.
Even my 2.5 V6 has cost be a fair wedge, approx £1k in the last year, which includes new front tyres, cambelt service and a few odds and sods. They are not cheap cars to run, which is why, I guess, the GTA has depreciated like a stone. You're right when you say that they seem to have bottomed out at about £10k though - maybe that's the price to aim at. I have to admit, they are superb cars to look at and if my 2.5 V6 is anything to go by the GTA must be fabulous to own.
I don't agree with the comments above. I ran a 2.5 V6 for 3 years/90k as well, and, yes, it was worth nothing at the end of it (company car luckily, in that case). But then nothing went wrong with it either, bar the bushes, it stayed in top fettle. The GTA should cost no more and so much of the servicing costs was labour that using a good specialist like Black and White should be a top move and save £lots. Basically you're talking about a pretty well-developed car with a very sound normally aspirated engine and a strong gearbox, and no big suprises like a turbo replacement. If you get niggles, a main dealer could charge £thousands fannying about with it as they don't see many GTA's but someone like Black and White will most likely know the issue and just sort it.
WRT resale value, it's fair to say modern cars all depreciate badly, the market is heading one way only. Your reasoning on not spending more than £11k because it gets you a pretty recent car is very valid. Remember - depreciation is about the amount you lose not the %, limiting your initial outlay limits your exposure. But the values - like with similarly rare tackle as the VX220 - do start to plateau significantly around £10k (despite whayt Parkers says...). With the tiny numbers sold, the looks, the performance, the kit, the "last of the line" Arese V6 engine, the slow fat 159 replacement... I would imagine £5k at 6 years old, and that's assuming the general market continues to drop. 10 year olf Corrado VR6's fetch £4k! I honestly think the small numbers, the high % of the owners asscoated with the various forums and owner's clubs and keeping them in good nick, and the good rep they seem to have SH will have an effect. If you ignore Autocar/What Car the reviews were very positive too, abroad the reviews were outstanding. The GTA is such a major cut above all other 156's in so many areas and really gets the juices flowing so I can see it being sought out by enthusiasts, the 2.5 is a good car but often just seen as a fairly normal 156 with terrible mpg - unfair (the engine revs to infinity and the thing is as quick as a 3.2 159 or brera for a fraction of the money) but perception is reality.
WRT resale value, it's fair to say modern cars all depreciate badly, the market is heading one way only. Your reasoning on not spending more than £11k because it gets you a pretty recent car is very valid. Remember - depreciation is about the amount you lose not the %, limiting your initial outlay limits your exposure. But the values - like with similarly rare tackle as the VX220 - do start to plateau significantly around £10k (despite whayt Parkers says...). With the tiny numbers sold, the looks, the performance, the kit, the "last of the line" Arese V6 engine, the slow fat 159 replacement... I would imagine £5k at 6 years old, and that's assuming the general market continues to drop. 10 year olf Corrado VR6's fetch £4k! I honestly think the small numbers, the high % of the owners asscoated with the various forums and owner's clubs and keeping them in good nick, and the good rep they seem to have SH will have an effect. If you ignore Autocar/What Car the reviews were very positive too, abroad the reviews were outstanding. The GTA is such a major cut above all other 156's in so many areas and really gets the juices flowing so I can see it being sought out by enthusiasts, the 2.5 is a good car but often just seen as a fairly normal 156 with terrible mpg - unfair (the engine revs to infinity and the thing is as quick as a 3.2 159 or brera for a fraction of the money) but perception is reality.
Edited by jwyatt on Tuesday 31st October 17:09
some really useful advice
I find myself becoming obsesssed by depreciation. As you say it's inevitable, unavoidable and the biggest cost on pretty much any new car.
Strange that this study of depreciation should lead me to an Alfa then but even if the GTA is only worth £2k when I've finished with it, it'll still have cost less than, say a 330i of the same age which'll cost £20k and be worth less than £10k when I sell.
I find myself becoming obsesssed by depreciation. As you say it's inevitable, unavoidable and the biggest cost on pretty much any new car.
Strange that this study of depreciation should lead me to an Alfa then but even if the GTA is only worth £2k when I've finished with it, it'll still have cost less than, say a 330i of the same age which'll cost £20k and be worth less than £10k when I sell.
Edited by alfaspiderman2 on Tuesday 31st October 17:15
Exactly right. The fact the GTA suffers such heavy initial depreciation that you can find perfect 3 year old examples for £11k makes it a bargain, not a risk! Spending much more on an older beemer or something is a risk. I ran a Passat V6 4WD estate from 3 years old/60k to 6 years/150k. It cost £8k and sold for £2500 - that might look bad in % terms but in real terms, with no non-service items failing and good service from a local specialist, it was a steal. It's the sensible way to run cars.
Says the person that bought one new... But that was a one-off extravagence with the money from the sale of my race car/trailer to make myself feel better about stopping racing. Normally I'd do what you're doing - and would look at the 147 and GT 3.2 as well (though obviously the GTA SW is the one to have
).
Says the person that bought one new... But that was a one-off extravagence with the money from the sale of my race car/trailer to make myself feel better about stopping racing. Normally I'd do what you're doing - and would look at the 147 and GT 3.2 as well (though obviously the GTA SW is the one to have
). 
It looks good.
Sounds the nuts.
And with 4 people in, still leaves my 2.5 V6 MG ZS in a straight line.
If I had eleven grand I'd spend it on a sportscar, but if you want a saloon, it's hard to immagine something much better - except maybe a rear wheel drive version!!
(.....and I don't even own an alfa)
Sounds the nuts.
And with 4 people in, still leaves my 2.5 V6 MG ZS in a straight line.
If I had eleven grand I'd spend it on a sportscar, but if you want a saloon, it's hard to immagine something much better - except maybe a rear wheel drive version!!
(.....and I don't even own an alfa)
the real decision I guess it whether to opt out or not
I want the following:
- capable of covering 20k hard business miles a year
- bring a smile to face every time I pop for a newspaper yet be able to leave me comfortable after a 300 mile journey
- big enough to handle family holidays with 2 young children
- V6 petrol
- over 220 bhp
- reliable....I absolutely cannot afford to find myself standed somewhere
currently, I see 2 options:
1) opt out of the company car and get a GTA
pros: it's just a fantastic looking, sounding, performing car, cheapest option on the table
cons: it's a liability whichever way you look at it compared to staying in the car scheme
2) stay with the car scheme and get a Golf R32
pros: durability, total lack of hassle/worry
cons: 1/3 more expensive that opting out with the GTA, it's 'only' a Golf, boring choice
both have similar performance, sound great and generally satisfy all the criteria...it's just a question of whether the £200/month extra for the Golf is worth it for the peace of mind that it brings...
I want the following:
- capable of covering 20k hard business miles a year
- bring a smile to face every time I pop for a newspaper yet be able to leave me comfortable after a 300 mile journey
- big enough to handle family holidays with 2 young children
- V6 petrol
- over 220 bhp
- reliable....I absolutely cannot afford to find myself standed somewhere
currently, I see 2 options:
1) opt out of the company car and get a GTA
pros: it's just a fantastic looking, sounding, performing car, cheapest option on the table
cons: it's a liability whichever way you look at it compared to staying in the car scheme
2) stay with the car scheme and get a Golf R32
pros: durability, total lack of hassle/worry
cons: 1/3 more expensive that opting out with the GTA, it's 'only' a Golf, boring choice
both have similar performance, sound great and generally satisfy all the criteria...it's just a question of whether the £200/month extra for the Golf is worth it for the peace of mind that it brings...
It's all personal taste, really. Firstly I'd say neither is a particularly huge car for family holidays - you must take less crap than we do! And get the SW if this is a concern... My GTA would do for us on holidays but I get too carried away by reps in 3-series when driving it to use as our family car. The motorway manners are great though - bumpy B-road ride quality is not a speciality but I can drive all day in it and arrive fresh.
The R32 is a very different car. IMHO it epitomises the sort of car the market over-values, making it a decent new but poor SH buy. It doesn't have the tactility of the GTA, the looks, the exclusivity, the steering, etc. It's softer and less focused. It's quite common as well, and the engine is nowhere near the Alfa's - it just sort of drones the same note whatever you are doing, it's trying articially to be sporty and trying too hard.
Yet I'd concede the Alfa is likely to suffer more niggles. However, touch wood, actual breakdowns are rare - like you I wouldn't put up with that. In the last year my indicators have failed, the climate control ECU has needed resetting, and the pipe has come off the rear screen washer once. If that sort of thing leaves you apoplectic with rage and wanting compensation, beforeswearing never to buy a non-german car again, then alfas are not for you - I suspect from your previous cars you can put up with a bit of this, though.
BTW - if it matters (probably not, I just say this to annoy R32 fans), all 3 GTA's are faster - and for a lot less £
Plus the standard kit on the 156GTA makes the R32's look sparse - the £2500 optional electric heated sports seats in the R32 are not as nice as the standard 156GTA ones, bose, massive brakes etc are all standard with the Alfa.
The R32 is a very different car. IMHO it epitomises the sort of car the market over-values, making it a decent new but poor SH buy. It doesn't have the tactility of the GTA, the looks, the exclusivity, the steering, etc. It's softer and less focused. It's quite common as well, and the engine is nowhere near the Alfa's - it just sort of drones the same note whatever you are doing, it's trying articially to be sporty and trying too hard.
Yet I'd concede the Alfa is likely to suffer more niggles. However, touch wood, actual breakdowns are rare - like you I wouldn't put up with that. In the last year my indicators have failed, the climate control ECU has needed resetting, and the pipe has come off the rear screen washer once. If that sort of thing leaves you apoplectic with rage and wanting compensation, beforeswearing never to buy a non-german car again, then alfas are not for you - I suspect from your previous cars you can put up with a bit of this, though.
BTW - if it matters (probably not, I just say this to annoy R32 fans), all 3 GTA's are faster - and for a lot less £
Plus the standard kit on the 156GTA makes the R32's look sparse - the £2500 optional electric heated sports seats in the R32 are not as nice as the standard 156GTA ones, bose, massive brakes etc are all standard with the Alfa. Edited by jwyatt on Thursday 2nd November 14:44
you really do hit the nail(s) on the head for me James...even the comment re the 3 series drivers...I actually enjoy driving our Freelander with the family as it stops me getting carried away
my spider did have the odd niggle but never actually let me down.....I guess after nigh on 10yrs of the company car safety blanket I'm a little overly cautious when it comes to opting out...especially into an Alfa..although that's unfair since I don't believe a 3yr old Merc/Audi/Volvo/whatever would be any more reliable when push came to shove
family holidays could always be relegated to the Land Rover (wife's car)...and to be honest if I went for the more fragile Alfa, I'd probably want it to avoid as much of the sand/ice cream torture that kids provide and let the 4x4 take it
I share your frustration with modern cars.....that's why I'm seriously considering opting out as there's nothing that I can find new that floats my boat in all areas....I know you're not a fan but for me, only the inclusion of a V6 159 on my co car list would resolve this dilema once and for all
interesting you should point to the specs of the new cars as well....as a company car I have to pay for options and for me xenons, leather, cruise, BOSE (or equivalent) and upgraded seats are essential....therefore that's £2k of options on an R32 that I'll pay 100% of the value
the GTA seems to be scoring well (after all this is the Alfa forum)
my spider did have the odd niggle but never actually let me down.....I guess after nigh on 10yrs of the company car safety blanket I'm a little overly cautious when it comes to opting out...especially into an Alfa..although that's unfair since I don't believe a 3yr old Merc/Audi/Volvo/whatever would be any more reliable when push came to shove
family holidays could always be relegated to the Land Rover (wife's car)...and to be honest if I went for the more fragile Alfa, I'd probably want it to avoid as much of the sand/ice cream torture that kids provide and let the 4x4 take it
I share your frustration with modern cars.....that's why I'm seriously considering opting out as there's nothing that I can find new that floats my boat in all areas....I know you're not a fan but for me, only the inclusion of a V6 159 on my co car list would resolve this dilema once and for all
interesting you should point to the specs of the new cars as well....as a company car I have to pay for options and for me xenons, leather, cruise, BOSE (or equivalent) and upgraded seats are essential....therefore that's £2k of options on an R32 that I'll pay 100% of the value
the GTA seems to be scoring well (after all this is the Alfa forum)
Edited by alfaspiderman2 on Thursday 2nd November 16:23
Take a look here http://alfaromeogta.createforum.net/i
I love my 156 GTA & plan on keeping it as long as i have a licence, good luck.
Stu
I love my 156 GTA & plan on keeping it as long as i have a licence, good luck.
Stu
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