St. James' Place - a review…
Discussion
xeny said:
chip* said:
For balance (and I am not SJP fan!), the OP could have invested in some value fund which could explain the poor performance.
That's what i meant with "bet on a factor which hadn't come off".For some value investment professional,they have even thrown in the towel!
https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/va...
Years ago there was a firm called Hambro Life.
Followed by Allied Dunbar.
Then St James' Place.
The principles of operstion were very similar and the founders made fortunes, as did many of their best self employed sales people.
Your mention of deducting 5% gives an idea of why.
With some financial businesses, it has been better to own shares in the company, than be one of their customers.
Jon39 said:
Years ago there was a firm called Hambro Life.
Followed by Allied Dunbar.
Then St James' Place.
The principles of operstion were very similar and the founders made fortunes, as did many of their best self employed sales people.
Your mention of deducting 5% gives an idea of why.
With some financial businesses, it has been better to own shares in the company, than be one of their customers.
I have pension , isas and other investments with them and the most i pay is 1.6% unless im missing something ? I know exactly what i'm paying as i went through all the charges with them last night.
Admittedly i didn't go through the exit charges but that's not my plan to leave just now and having been with them for 15yrs i dare say those charges might be somewhat reduced or contestable
I've always had low risk funds and after fees over 15 yrs my average return is around 4% net of fees which i appreciate isnt exactly knocking it out of the park but low risk was my idea not theirs.
Anyway i appreciate they may well have turned others over on fees but i've always given them a hard time on the subject so i don't feel totally aggrieved .
GT3Manthey said:
Sorry to fire up an old thread but i know from personal and actual experience these charges DONT apply to me.
I have pension , isas and other investments with them and the most i pay is 1.6% unless im missing something ? I know exactly what i'm paying as i went through all the charges with them last night.
Admittedly i didn't go through the exit charges but that's not my plan to leave just now and having been with them for 15yrs i dare say those charges might be somewhat reduced or contestable
I've always had low risk funds and after fees over 15 yrs my average return is around 4% net of fees which i appreciate isnt exactly knocking it out of the park but low risk was my idea not theirs.
Anyway i appreciate they may well have turned others over on fees but i've always given them a hard time on the subject so i don't feel totally aggrieved .
From their web site:I have pension , isas and other investments with them and the most i pay is 1.6% unless im missing something ? I know exactly what i'm paying as i went through all the charges with them last night.
Admittedly i didn't go through the exit charges but that's not my plan to leave just now and having been with them for 15yrs i dare say those charges might be somewhat reduced or contestable
I've always had low risk funds and after fees over 15 yrs my average return is around 4% net of fees which i appreciate isnt exactly knocking it out of the park but low risk was my idea not theirs.
Anyway i appreciate they may well have turned others over on fees but i've always given them a hard time on the subject so i don't feel totally aggrieved .
ISA and Unit Trust:"The total of these charges is therefore a charge of 5% of the initial investment and an ongoing charge that for a typical portfolio will be between 1.6% and 1.9%." - no exit charge
For pensions:" 4.5% of your initial investment will be used to pay for initial advice and an annual charge of 0.5% will be charged for the ongoing advice and the relationship with your adviser." "In addition to charges for the advice and the product, there are charges for managing and maintaining your underlying investments. These depend on the funds you choose to invest in." The lowest total charge for managing a pension portfolio asset appears to be 1.91% - https://www.sjp.co.uk/~/media/Files/S/SJP-Corp/doc... presumably in addition to the 4.5% initial charge.
Inflation has averaged what over the past 15 years 1.5 to 2%? That means you've managed a real return on your investments of between 2 and 2.5%. SJP have averaged at least 1.6% plus any initial charge you may or may not be paying. You've taken market risk with your money. They haven't.
They're getting a pretty spectacular deal there IMHO.
xeny said:
From their web site:
ISA and Unit Trust:"The total of these charges is therefore a charge of 5% of the initial investment and an ongoing charge that for a typical portfolio will be between 1.6% and 1.9%." - no exit charge
For pensions:" 4.5% of your initial investment will be used to pay for initial advice and an annual charge of 0.5% will be charged for the ongoing advice and the relationship with your adviser." "In addition to charges for the advice and the product, there are charges for managing and maintaining your underlying investments. These depend on the funds you choose to invest in." The lowest total charge for managing a pension portfolio asset appears to be 1.91% - https://www.sjp.co.uk/~/media/Files/S/SJP-Corp/doc... presumably in addition to the 4.5% initial charge.
Inflation has averaged what over the past 15 years 1.5 to 2%? That means you've managed a real return on your investments of between 2 and 2.5%. SJP have averaged at least 1.6% plus any initial charge you may or may not be paying. You've taken market risk with your money. They haven't.
They're getting a pretty spectacular deal there IMHO.
Points taken however those charges are negotiable as i said . ISA and Unit Trust:"The total of these charges is therefore a charge of 5% of the initial investment and an ongoing charge that for a typical portfolio will be between 1.6% and 1.9%." - no exit charge
For pensions:" 4.5% of your initial investment will be used to pay for initial advice and an annual charge of 0.5% will be charged for the ongoing advice and the relationship with your adviser." "In addition to charges for the advice and the product, there are charges for managing and maintaining your underlying investments. These depend on the funds you choose to invest in." The lowest total charge for managing a pension portfolio asset appears to be 1.91% - https://www.sjp.co.uk/~/media/Files/S/SJP-Corp/doc... presumably in addition to the 4.5% initial charge.
Inflation has averaged what over the past 15 years 1.5 to 2%? That means you've managed a real return on your investments of between 2 and 2.5%. SJP have averaged at least 1.6% plus any initial charge you may or may not be paying. You've taken market risk with your money. They haven't.
They're getting a pretty spectacular deal there IMHO.
I do agree the performance doesnt on paper look stella however i've used the tax breaks over the years i wouldn't have likely used myself without advice.
Maybe i need to check how others have performed during the same period
GT3Manthey said:
Points taken however those charges are negotiable as i said .
I do agree the performance doesnt on paper look stella however i've used the tax breaks over the years i wouldn't have likely used myself without advice.
Maybe i need to check how others have performed during the same period
Fundsmith is returning 18.4% a year (annualised) for 1.56% in charges so you might want to ask SJP what you're getting for your money (around about fI do agree the performance doesnt on paper look stella however i've used the tax breaks over the years i wouldn't have likely used myself without advice.
Maybe i need to check how others have performed during the same period
k all is the correct answer).Why did you decide to raise a six month old topic tooting SJP's horn?
Mr Pointy said:
Fundsmith is returning 18.4% a year (annualised) for 1.56% in charges so you might want to ask SJP what you're getting for your money (around about fk all is the correct answer).
Why did you decide to raise a six month old topic tooting SJP's horn?
No, i had hit the 'search function' on SJP and found this old thread as you do. k all is the correct answer).Why did you decide to raise a six month old topic tooting SJP's horn?
GT3Manthey said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Also what’s been their 10yr performance?I'm a very satisfied customer. Work out if their approach is what you want/feel comfortable with.
448.16% as of the end of April. slightly lower at present given the way May is going.Stats are here https://www.fundsmith.co.uk/fund-factsheet
Mr Pointy was pessimistic IMO, you'd have to try pretty hard to pay 1.56% as a management fee.
xeny said:
GT3Manthey said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Also what’s been their 10yr performance?I'm a very satisfied customer. Work out if their approach is what you want/feel comfortable with.
448.16% as of the end of April. slightly lower at present given the way May is going.Stats are here https://www.fundsmith.co.uk/fund-factsheet
Mr Pointy was pessimistic IMO, you'd have to try pretty hard to pay 1.56% as a management fee.
At a guess the fees are roughly the same across the two, which means they'll take a larger fraction of the return on a low risk/return investment than on a higher risk/return investment.
There's also lots of scope for variance in what exactly constitutes a medium risk portfolio vs a low risk one.
Looks as if you've got an average return of 9% or so there?
There's also lots of scope for variance in what exactly constitutes a medium risk portfolio vs a low risk one.
Looks as if you've got an average return of 9% or so there?
GT3Manthey said:
Also what’s been their 10yr performance?
The inception date was November 2010 so the figures I gave are roughly the 10 year performace; from inception to date the total return is 488.6%. Here's the Factsheet for your to peruse:https://www.fundsmith.co.uk/fund-factsheet
Is it cheap? No. Has it performed well so far? Yes. Will it continue to do so? Nobody knows.
The thing is, it isn't even the best performing fund out there & yet SJP seem to have managed to only return you not much more than the inflation rate. They've made a shedload of money out of you though.
xeny said:
Shnozz said:
What are the charges going direct out of interest?.
1.06% unless it is a moderately large investment.cholo said:
I read a lot of negative press about SJP.
However, in a very similar situation to the OP I put £3k in a S&S ISA in 2014, haven't touched it since and now it's worth £5.5k, obviously after their fees.
I am also on a medium risk plan.
Why are my results so much better?
Although similar risk, fund selection plays a crucial part towards the actual performance i.e. OP fund maybe tilted towards FTSE 100, and your fund could be tilted towards the S&P 500, plus maybe also different investment point/duration etc..If so, you shouldn't really compare performance between these funds as they are measured against a different market / benchmark category i.e. you wouldn't compare the 0-100 time between a 2.0 Diesel Audi A4 against a Pagani Huarya!However, in a very similar situation to the OP I put £3k in a S&S ISA in 2014, haven't touched it since and now it's worth £5.5k, obviously after their fees.
I am also on a medium risk plan.
Why are my results so much better?
To track your fund performance, you can go on MorningStar (you will find your SJP funds there) under Fund / ETF Screener where you can compare your fund performance against it's own benchmark, and all other rival funds under the same benchmark too. Hope this helps!
chip* said:
Although similar risk, fund selection plays a crucial part towards the actual performance i.e. OP fund maybe tilted towards FTSE 100, and your fund could be tilted towards the S&P 500, plus maybe also different investment point/duration etc..If so, you shouldn't really compare performance between these funds as they are measured against a different market / benchmark category i.e. you wouldn't compare the 0-100 time between a 2.0 Diesel Audi A4 against a Pagani Huarya!
To track your fund performance, you can go on MorningStar (you will find your SJP funds there) under Fund / ETF Screener where you can compare your fund performance against it's own benchmark, and all other rival funds under the same benchmark too. Hope this helps!
Those comping SJP to Fundsmith are also doing apples to oranges. Fundsmith is a very good fund with huge US bias which has been a bigger tailwind. SJP are managing your pension etc according to some cookie cutter mandate (plus expensive and not very good).To track your fund performance, you can go on MorningStar (you will find your SJP funds there) under Fund / ETF Screener where you can compare your fund performance against it's own benchmark, and all other rival funds under the same benchmark too. Hope this helps!
Buying S&P500 index over the last 10 years gets you 15% annually with 0.2% cost, Nasdaq much more. Fundsmith come in-between.
For some reason most of the providers (SJP, Hargreaves Lansdowne, whatever bank) still bias toward UK equities and the FTSE has been a disaster.
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