Re-mortgage now or wait?

Re-mortgage now or wait?

Author
Discussion

johnboy1975

8,426 posts

109 months

Saturday 11th May
quotequote all
Sarnie said:
LR90 said:
Genuine question — does this apply if you move lenders?

As a first-time buyer buying, say, a £1M house, they'll give you a mortgage whether you have a £500k deposit or a £250k deposit, providing of course you meet all their criteria. So why is it different if someone remortgaging wants to extract the same £250k in equity during a remortgage? So long as the LTV is acceptable and the mortgage holder meets the affordability/risk requirements, what's the difference?

I originally pondered this when interest rates started to rise back in 2021. Borrow as much as you possibly can against your house on a cheap fixed rate, and then bung it in a savings account paying a higher rate of interest. Not possible, of course, but a nice idea in theory.
The difference is that when you buy a house, the deposit comes from your own funds.

It's also worth noting that even as a FTB buyer, you have to tell and evidence to the lender where your deposit has come from, to satisfy AML requirements.

When you remortgage a property and want additional lending, you are asking the lender to borrow you the money which in most cases is increasing their LTV and therefore their risk, hence why they will want to know what you are doing with the money.
Yes, but if you increase your (their!!) risk by a trivial amount, still well with the LTV cut off, why do they care?

I've got 60k against a 150k property. I've got to jump through hoops to get a 10k advance. But it should be relatively trivial to move to a different lender with a 70k mortgage (I think??)

Caddyshack

10,994 posts

207 months

Saturday 11th May
quotequote all
johnboy1975 said:
Sarnie said:
LR90 said:
Genuine question — does this apply if you move lenders?

As a first-time buyer buying, say, a £1M house, they'll give you a mortgage whether you have a £500k deposit or a £250k deposit, providing of course you meet all their criteria. So why is it different if someone remortgaging wants to extract the same £250k in equity during a remortgage? So long as the LTV is acceptable and the mortgage holder meets the affordability/risk requirements, what's the difference?

I originally pondered this when interest rates started to rise back in 2021. Borrow as much as you possibly can against your house on a cheap fixed rate, and then bung it in a savings account paying a higher rate of interest. Not possible, of course, but a nice idea in theory.
The difference is that when you buy a house, the deposit comes from your own funds.

It's also worth noting that even as a FTB buyer, you have to tell and evidence to the lender where your deposit has come from, to satisfy AML requirements.

When you remortgage a property and want additional lending, you are asking the lender to borrow you the money which in most cases is increasing their LTV and therefore their risk, hence why they will want to know what you are doing with the money.
Yes, but if you increase your (their!!) risk by a trivial amount, still well with the LTV cut off, why do they care?

I've got 60k against a 150k property. I've got to jump through hoops to get a 10k advance. But it should be relatively trivial to move to a different lender with a 70k mortgage (I think??)
It is simple and trivial both ways but they have rules to obey and they have to ask. A broker knows how to answer in a way that closes that off. There are certain answers that will lead to a lot of hoops to jump through or a decline.

Wilmslowboy

4,220 posts

207 months

Saturday 11th May
quotequote all
johnboy1975 said:
Sarnie said:
LR90 said:
Genuine question — does this apply if you move lenders?

As a first-time buyer buying, say, a £1M house, they'll give you a mortgage whether you have a £500k deposit or a £250k deposit, providing of course you meet all their criteria. So why is it different if someone remortgaging wants to extract the same £250k in equity during a remortgage? So long as the LTV is acceptable and the mortgage holder meets the affordability/risk requirements, what's the difference?

I originally pondered this when interest rates started to rise back in 2021. Borrow as much as you possibly can against your house on a cheap fixed rate, and then bung it in a savings account paying a higher rate of interest. Not possible, of course, but a nice idea in theory.
The difference is that when you buy a house, the deposit comes from your own funds.

It's also worth noting that even as a FTB buyer, you have to tell and evidence to the lender where your deposit has come from, to satisfy AML requirements.

When you remortgage a property and want additional lending, you are asking the lender to borrow you the money which in most cases is increasing their LTV and therefore their risk, hence why they will want to know what you are doing with the money.
Yes, but if you increase your (their!!) risk by a trivial amount, still well with the LTV cut off, why do they care?

I've got 60k against a 150k property. I've got to jump through hoops to get a 10k advance. But it should be relatively trivial to move to a different lender with a 70k mortgage (I think??)
I went through all this in the past year.

I applied to increase my mortgage from around 25% to 40% LTV (all well within affordability criteria), as the money was to support a deal on another property, they said NO (been with the bank for around 35 years).

Applied again 6 months later, same amount, but this time to do a full refurb of our house. Once more lots of questions, hoops to jump, including a surveyor valuation (even though the LTV would remain under 40%), also had to provide itemised costing of work to be undertaken, showing contingency etc.
Got approved, however I've sat on the offer for months, holding off on the refurb, offer expires next month.











Sarnie

8,059 posts

210 months

Saturday 11th May
quotequote all
johnboy1975 said:
Yes, but if you increase your (their!!) risk by a trivial amount, still well with the LTV cut off, why do they care?

I've got 60k against a 150k property. I've got to jump through hoops to get a 10k advance. But it should be relatively trivial to move to a different lender with a 70k mortgage (I think??)
Why do they care? Surely thats not a serious question..........

People are very quick to forget 2008 and the years before it when lenders signed off anything the LTV was low or you said you could afford it. It didn't work out well.........

Portia5

580 posts

24 months

Saturday 11th May
quotequote all
Sarnie said:
Why do they care? Surely thats not a serious question..........

People are very quick to forget 2008 and the years before it when lenders signed off anything the LTV was low or you said you could afford it. It didn't work out well.........
........apart from for the very large number of people whose property wealth originates from those days and that "lax" lending era.....

Chris Type R

8,063 posts

250 months

Saturday 11th May
quotequote all
Wilmslowboy said:
I went through all this in the past year.

I applied to increase my mortgage from around 25% to 40% LTV (all well within affordability criteria), as the money was to support a deal on another property, they said NO (been with the bank for around 35 years).
We did something similar coming on two years ago (before interest rates went mad, and before Ukraine was invaded) - I went from 25% LTV to 60%, borrowing enough to buy the property bordering our back garden. It seemed surprisingly easy to get the borrowing then - a couple of video calls, and an in-person valuation of our main property.

The cash sat in my savings account for a couple of weeks during the buying process, and I have to admit that I did think about what cars I could have bought instead smile

Sarnie

8,059 posts

210 months

Saturday 11th May
quotequote all
Chris Type R said:
We did something similar coming on two years ago (before interest rates went mad, and before Ukraine was invaded) - I went from 25% LTV to 60%, borrowing enough to buy the property bordering our back garden. It seemed surprisingly easy to get the borrowing then - a couple of video calls, and an in-person valuation of our main property.

The cash sat in my savings account for a couple of weeks during the buying process, and I have to admit that I did think about what cars I could have bought instead smile
Still surprises me when I see people complaining about a lending decision citing "I've been with them for 35 years".....

Clients are the most unloyal they've ever been. Lenders are no different. It's probably at least 30 years plus since the length of time you'd been with a bank actually had any positive impact on a lending decision.

You can either satisfy the lending criteria or you can't. Whether you've been with them 35 years or 5 minutes. When clients are able to get a cheaper rate elsewhere, hardly any will stay because they've been with the lender for an extended period of time.....

The above two examples shows that one lender accepted an application for further borrowing, another didn't.

Neither decision was accepted or declined because of;

- The LTV
- The number of years you've been with the lender

Nationwide for example, won't lend additional funds to buy a BTL. Doesn't matter if your LTV is 5% or you have been with them for 35 years, it's just a straight no. Other lenders will do it, no problem......



Gigamoons

17,757 posts

201 months

Saturday 11th May
quotequote all
First Direct lent me extra based on the LTV and affordability of the bigger monthlies.
There was general talk of a house extension being the reason… but they didn’t ask for any paperwork.
This was going back a few years though.

DonkeyApple

55,702 posts

170 months

Sunday 12th May
quotequote all
T_S_M said:
So say I want to borrow £25k for a new car. Would it not make more sense to add it on to the mortgage at 4-5% vs a bank loan at 8-10%? Fix for 5 years, then sell the car and pay off that £25k you borrowed on the mortgage?

Or am I being a bit thick? laugh
The 'new kitchen' manovre. biggrin

Where it goes wrong is the same place credit card debt goes wrong, in that the average punter forgets to get round to paying it off on the terms that they originally agreed with themselves. smile

£25k@5% costs over £30k across 25 years but £6k over 5.

£25k @8% over 5 costs £10k

You obviously need to take into account whether the debt being backed by the home puts you into a worse LTV or risk of a worse LTV and consider any fee elements etc but the basic maths is that mortgage debt is cheaper and the largest risk is a failure of personal discipline.


Chris Type R

8,063 posts

250 months

Thursday 16th May
quotequote all

Sarnie

8,059 posts

210 months

Thursday 16th May
quotequote all
A few have increased them too.....

Tagteam

292 posts

24 months

Thursday 16th May
quotequote all
Chris Type R said:
Uk economy won’t take higher rates for long , will cripple it.

Caddyshack

10,994 posts

207 months

Friday 17th May
quotequote all
Tagteam said:
Chris Type R said:
Uk economy won’t take higher rates for long , will cripple it.
Not read the link but by the above, do you mean if rates go up more from where they are now or if rates just stay as high as they are currently?

Deesee

8,490 posts

84 months

ONS to release UK inflation %-numbers on Wednesday, possibly back to 2.5/3%, BOE change should reflect on that, however overall cost of living is still embedded, and the increasing possibility of stagflation, and general consumer arrears are starting to appear (especially in the large loan, high income bracket). Some lenders are very much pricing for losses.

Should see swap rates start to fall with the predicted inflation news.

As per your two resident brokers on here, no harming in securing your rate in advance...

If inflation is under control, trackers could well be the play.

DonkeyApple

55,702 posts

170 months

We're still ultimately going to track the FED. U.K. inflation should fall because the energy price cap has been lowered and mortgage rates fell 1% over the previous period. Petrol has risen while oil hasn't because the U.K. refineries are allowed to sell t world prices. It would be nice if we forced them to sell at local prices now it looks like world prices are always going to be higher. Likewise, with renewables, it would be nice if the practice of allowing that to be sold at the highest spot price was ended sooner rather than later.

Tagteam

292 posts

24 months

Caddyshack said:
Tagteam said:
Chris Type R said:
Uk economy won’t take higher rates for long , will cripple it.
Not read the link but by the above, do you mean if rates go up more from where they are now or if rates just stay as high as they are currently?
I cannot see rates going up now , they will fall from here and Wednesday inflation figures should show a drop in the overall inflation rate .

Tagteam

292 posts

24 months

Deesee said:
ONS to release UK inflation %-numbers on Wednesday, possibly back to 2.5/3%, BOE change should reflect on that, however overall cost of living is still embedded, and the increasing possibility of stagflation, and general consumer arrears are starting to appear (especially in the large loan, high income bracket). Some lenders are very much pricing for losses.

Should see swap rates start to fall with the predicted inflation news.

As per your two resident brokers on here, no harming in securing your rate in advance...

If inflation is under control, trackers could well be the play.
I would go for a tracker as the fixed rates don’t yet price in much of a fall.

DonkeyApple

55,702 posts

170 months

Tagteam said:
I cannot see rates going up now , they will fall from here and Wednesday inflation figures should show a drop in the overall inflation rate .
It seems unlikely that U.K. mortgage rates will trend above BoE+margin I'd agree. Personally, I think we would be flattering ourselves if we thought U.K. inflation data has much, if any relevance to U.K. mortgage rates.

U.K. mortgage rates are fundamentally defined as the BoE rate + or minus the amount the rest of the world thinks US interest rates will change over the period of the loan.

So, this would be 5.25 less the .75 the market thinks the US Fed will be dropping over the next 24 months.

I don't think they even bother prodding Bailey awake and updating his programming for a U.K. inflation data event, he's usually just rebooted a few minutes after the Fed says something. biggrin

Caddyshack

10,994 posts

207 months

Tagteam said:
Caddyshack said:
Tagteam said:
Chris Type R said:
Uk economy won’t take higher rates for long , will cripple it.
Not read the link but by the above, do you mean if rates go up more from where they are now or if rates just stay as high as they are currently?
I cannot see rates going up now , they will fall from here and Wednesday inflation figures should show a drop in the overall inflation rate .
Depends if you mean Bank of England base rates (I agree that it's very unlikely) or Mortgage Rates? which have been going up for the last 3-6 weeks (some lenders are still going up right now but others have made tiny reductions)