Cessation of LIBOR as reference for mortgages.
Cessation of LIBOR as reference for mortgages.
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Discussion

Louis Balfour

Original Poster:

28,176 posts

251 months

Monday 16th November 2020
quotequote all

We've just had a letter from Paragon saying that LIBOR is going to cease next year for the purposes of retail lending. For all lenders.

What impact is this likely to have?

anonymous-user

83 months

Monday 16th November 2020
quotequote all
Depends what they change to as the reference. Are they going over to SONIA?

Sterling overnight indexed average

eliot

11,995 posts

283 months

Monday 16th November 2020
quotequote all
would this be for existing mortgages or just new ones?

Louis Balfour

Original Poster:

28,176 posts

251 months

Monday 16th November 2020
quotequote all
eliot said:
would this be for existing mortgages or just new ones?
Existing.

anonymous-user

83 months

Monday 16th November 2020
quotequote all
eliot said:
would this be for existing mortgages or just new ones?
Everything. Libor is going.

leef44

5,185 posts

182 months

Monday 16th November 2020
quotequote all
JPJPJP said:
Depends what they change to as the reference. Are they going over to SONIA?

Sterling overnight indexed average
That is the plan.

Louis Balfour

Original Poster:

28,176 posts

251 months

Monday 16th November 2020
quotequote all
leef44 said:
JPJPJP said:
Depends what they change to as the reference. Are they going over to SONIA?

Sterling overnight indexed average
That is the plan.
Paragon doesn't know.

anonymous-user

83 months

Monday 16th November 2020
quotequote all
I don’t think there will be massive cost differences libor to sonia for retail customers

Paragon has raised money with sonia linked mortgage backed securities already and I can’t see how it can replace libor with anything except sonia

Louis Balfour

Original Poster:

28,176 posts

251 months

Monday 16th November 2020
quotequote all
JPJPJP said:
I don’t think there will be massive cost differences libor to sonia for retail customers
One would hope that lenders would be forced to ensure that it didn't.


anonymous-user

83 months

Monday 16th November 2020
quotequote all
The key difference is that LIBOR is forward-looking – it is agreed at the start of an interest period. SONIA is backward-looking – it cannot be determined until the end of an agreed interest period. This means that borrowers will no longer have upfront certainty about the amount of their interest payments, and will require relatively last-minute calculations of the interest due.

Will SONIA based loans be cheaper? Probably not. Lenders will want the same “all in” interest rate return. SONIA is lower than LIBOR because it does not include the credit/liquidity risk premium noted above. Lenders are therefore likely to increase the margin or add a “credit adjustment spread” to cover the difference.

Borrowers can draw comfort from SONIA historically being less volatile (and usually lower) than LIBOR and tracking the Bank of England base rate very closely.

https://www.stevens-bolton.com/site/insights/brief...

Kent Border Kenny

2,219 posts

89 months

Monday 16th November 2020
quotequote all
Louis Balfour said:
We've just had a letter from Paragon saying that LIBOR is going to cease next year for the purposes of retail lending. For all lenders.

What impact is this likely to have?
Likely none at all.

Do you actually have a mortgage linked to LIBOR? If so it’ll be transferred to referencing the new rate, with an adjustment on the spread to account for the basis between the two rates.

Kent Border Kenny

2,219 posts

89 months

Monday 16th November 2020
quotequote all
rockin said:
The key difference is that LIBOR is forward-looking – it is agreed at the start of an interest period. SONIA is backward-looking – it cannot be determined until the end of an agreed interest period. This means that borrowers will no longer have upfront certainty about the amount of their interest payments, and will require relatively last-minute calculations of the interest due.

Will SONIA based loans be cheaper? Probably not. Lenders will want the same “all in” interest rate return. SONIA is lower than LIBOR because it does not include the credit/liquidity risk premium noted above. Lenders are therefore likely to increase the margin or add a “credit adjustment spread” to cover the difference.

Borrowers can draw comfort from SONIA historically being less volatile (and usually lower) than LIBOR and tracking the Bank of England base rate very closely.

https://www.stevens-bolton.com/site/insights/brief...
It’s normal on some overnight swaps to take the peripenultimate fix and apply it for the last three fixes, meaning that you know the coupon amount two days before it’s due to be paid.

This is how Fed Funds swaps in London trade, as otherwise you’d only know the coupon after the end of the day in which it was to be paid.

It’d make sense to do similar on SONIA mortgages.

Louis Balfour

Original Poster:

28,176 posts

251 months

Monday 16th November 2020
quotequote all
Kent Border Kenny said:
Likely none at all.

Do you actually have a mortgage linked to LIBOR?.
A few and oddly I was offered the choice of LIBOR of BoE base only last week.

Kent Border Kenny

2,219 posts

89 months

Monday 16th November 2020
quotequote all
Louis Balfour said:
A few and oddly I was offered the choice of LIBOR of BoE base only last week.
I didn’t realise that they were much more than a historic anomaly. It’s a strange product to still be floating around.

Are these on retail or commercial products?

CaptainSlow

13,179 posts

241 months

Monday 16th November 2020
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I'm surprised you can still get boe or libor based mortgages. Most lenders switched to internal variable rates after they got burnt 12 years ago.

DanL

6,586 posts

294 months

Monday 16th November 2020
quotequote all
Kent Border Kenny said:
It’s normal on some overnight swaps to take the peripenultimate fix and apply it for the last three fixes, meaning that you know the coupon amount two days before it’s due to be paid.

This is how Fed Funds swaps in London trade, as otherwise you’d only know the coupon after the end of the day in which it was to be paid.

It’d make sense to do similar on SONIA mortgages.
It’s a bit of a surprise to see LIBOR on a retail loan...

As you say, there are different approaches that could be taken - I don’t think the market has quite agreed on which one to use. Lockout period, look-back period, or just deferred settlement - we’re having to support these three options in the software I look after as we don’t (yet) know what will become the standard, and if we wait for it to emerge we won’t have time to write the code.

After all this, it may even turn out that market practice will be to derive a term rate from the historic ARRs, and all the systems can continue as though nothing’s changed.

Kent Border Kenny

2,219 posts

89 months

Monday 16th November 2020
quotequote all
DanL said:
It’s a bit of a surprise to see LIBOR on a retail loan...

As you say, there are different approaches that could be taken - I don’t think the market has quite agreed on which one to use. Lockout period, look-back period, or just deferred settlement - we’re having to support these three options in the software I look after as we don’t (yet) know what will become the standard, and if we wait for it to emerge we won’t have time to write the code.

After all this, it may even turn out that market practice will be to derive a term rate from the historic ARRs, and all the systems can continue as though nothing’s changed.
In Euro there is Eoniaindex, a periodic fixing which sets on the expectation of the EONIA rate over the following three months. That’s one possible route to keep things easy to deal,with.

DanL

6,586 posts

294 months

Monday 16th November 2020
quotequote all
Kent Border Kenny said:
In Euro there is Eoniaindex, a periodic fixing which sets on the expectation of the EONIA rate over the following three months. That’s one possible route to keep things easy to deal,with.
Indeed, and it sorts out one currency. I think USD and GBP (and probably JPY) will go the same way at some point, but I seem to recall the Swiss saying they weren’t going to do this a while back. If they changed their minds (and the other currencies got a bloody move on) it’d make my job easier! biggrin

Louis Balfour

Original Poster:

28,176 posts

251 months

Tuesday 17th November 2020
quotequote all
Kent Border Kenny said:
I didn’t realise that they were much more than a historic anomaly. It’s a strange product to still be floating around.

Are these on retail or commercial products?
"Specialist retail" I would say.