F40 for £1k per month + fuel.......... Would You?
Discussion
SpeedYellow said:
The histories do get lost on all of the cars over time, it very unlikely to do the damage that would cause it to be a recorded incident and an F40 is an easily rebuildable car without anyone being any the wiser it had a smash in the side.
I can tell you have no experience in this segment.In 2011, I saw the ex-Adrian Newey 288GTO for sale at Dick Lovett's. I was all excited. But it took me 10 minutes on the internet to find out it was heavily crashed in 1986. I decided immediately not to buy it. I am not the only one who thinks like that. Crashed cars are worth less. There are only a couple of people where you would have your crashed F40 restored and the car is in that shop for months. People talk about crashed F40s. The Ferrari world is a small world and individual cars are tracked by many people who build history files. It is not possible to keep it secret, not even just because of the spotters but also because as soon as you have the incident there will be people with cell phones who take photo's and the thing goes viral. People love crashed hypercars.
Onno
JazzyO said:
I can tell you have no experience in this segment.
In 2011, I saw the ex-Adrian Newey 288GTO for sale at Dick Lovett's. I was all excited. But it took me 10 minutes on the internet to find out it was heavily crashed in 1986. I decided immediately not to buy it. I am not the only one who thinks like that. Crashed cars are worth less. There are only a couple of people where you would have your crashed F40 restored and the car is in that shop for months. People talk about crashed F40s. The Ferrari world is a small world and individual cars are tracked by many people who build history files. It is not possible to keep it secret, not even just because of the spotters but also because as soon as you have the incident there will be people with cell phones who take photo's and the thing goes viral. People love crashed hypercars.
Onno
As an aside, however, if you had bought that car back in 2011 you would be smiling now I suspect. What were DL asking?In 2011, I saw the ex-Adrian Newey 288GTO for sale at Dick Lovett's. I was all excited. But it took me 10 minutes on the internet to find out it was heavily crashed in 1986. I decided immediately not to buy it. I am not the only one who thinks like that. Crashed cars are worth less. There are only a couple of people where you would have your crashed F40 restored and the car is in that shop for months. People talk about crashed F40s. The Ferrari world is a small world and individual cars are tracked by many people who build history files. It is not possible to keep it secret, not even just because of the spotters but also because as soon as you have the incident there will be people with cell phones who take photo's and the thing goes viral. People love crashed hypercars.
Onno
AndrewD said:
As an aside, however, if you had bought that car back in 2011 you would be smiling now I suspect. What were DL asking?
Very true Andrew, but that was also true of the F40 that I was looking at.... 
For my particular set of circumstances the choice for a 458 was better for me and it was fun to go to the factory and spec the car. Thankfully, the appreciation of the 330GTC has more than compensated for the depreciation of the 458.
At the time they were asking 395.
Onno
I really don't understand the people that say, just do it, you only live once.
Sure you only live once but it is just for that reason that you wouldn't want a bad mistake today that could haunt you for the rest of your life (was recently watching a programme about a young, 18-year old girl, who was reckless in her driving and ended up crashing and will now spend the rest of her life in a wheelchair).
However great owning an F40 might be, if you were to end up having to sell the car and spend years in debt because of it I am not sure it would be worthwhile. Certainly would not be in my book.
If the OP is really serious about buying an F40 I suggest he doesn't think about the best case scenario but rather look at more realistic and worst-case scenarios too. As noted from people above, over one year you could easily lose £50k on an F40 (if you buy and sell via a dealer and have a bit of bad luck mechanically). If the OP's financial position is such that £50k would be painful but not disasterous and owning an F40 would be worthwhile at that amount, I'd say go for it. Of course, such a big hit can be mitagated if you can keep the car for long enough that any current, big costs can be offset by growth in value. However, that means you have to be financially solvent enough to be able to sit on a £350k asset for many years.
I had to do a similar analyis before buying my 355, which I only planned to run for the 4 months we were supposed to remain in Switzerland. My best case is that it will only cost me around £5k. However, I knew that it could easily end up at £10k-£15k and still went ahead knowing that because I also knew that we will probably never come back to live in Switzerland and so I might never get another opportunity to spend so long driving the great roads here (and the passes when they open) in such a classic Ferrari. Given that I've already done 2000 km in about 3 weeks of ownership I suspect I might be nearer the £15k than the £5k but so far it is definitely worthwhile :-)
Sure you only live once but it is just for that reason that you wouldn't want a bad mistake today that could haunt you for the rest of your life (was recently watching a programme about a young, 18-year old girl, who was reckless in her driving and ended up crashing and will now spend the rest of her life in a wheelchair).
However great owning an F40 might be, if you were to end up having to sell the car and spend years in debt because of it I am not sure it would be worthwhile. Certainly would not be in my book.
If the OP is really serious about buying an F40 I suggest he doesn't think about the best case scenario but rather look at more realistic and worst-case scenarios too. As noted from people above, over one year you could easily lose £50k on an F40 (if you buy and sell via a dealer and have a bit of bad luck mechanically). If the OP's financial position is such that £50k would be painful but not disasterous and owning an F40 would be worthwhile at that amount, I'd say go for it. Of course, such a big hit can be mitagated if you can keep the car for long enough that any current, big costs can be offset by growth in value. However, that means you have to be financially solvent enough to be able to sit on a £350k asset for many years.
I had to do a similar analyis before buying my 355, which I only planned to run for the 4 months we were supposed to remain in Switzerland. My best case is that it will only cost me around £5k. However, I knew that it could easily end up at £10k-£15k and still went ahead knowing that because I also knew that we will probably never come back to live in Switzerland and so I might never get another opportunity to spend so long driving the great roads here (and the passes when they open) in such a classic Ferrari. Given that I've already done 2000 km in about 3 weeks of ownership I suspect I might be nearer the £15k than the £5k but so far it is definitely worthwhile :-)
I think the only live once phrase covers a lot of different ideals to different people. I always preferred, you can always make more money but you can't buy time. Time is hugely undervalue, as is health, there are plenty of things out there that can take both away.
If the F40 is a life long dream and you'll use it as intended, go for it while health and time are on your side.
If the F40 is a life long dream and you'll use it as intended, go for it while health and time are on your side.
You only live once: loads of cars I couldn't really afford at the time but could and should have stretched myself for, just for the thrill of owning them .... A few below
246 Dino in boxes £8k
Db5 mot and running 17k
911 2.4s 4600
512 BB 33k
I'm lucky in having owned some lovely stuff but do I wish is owned those cars, absolutely I do, for the memories not the possible profit
246 Dino in boxes £8k
Db5 mot and running 17k
911 2.4s 4600
512 BB 33k
I'm lucky in having owned some lovely stuff but do I wish is owned those cars, absolutely I do, for the memories not the possible profit
Schnellmann said:
JamieBeeston said:
I've just had a full service and clutch change for just a little more (clutch part excluded!)
So if you overlook all the other annoying "little" jobs that always seen to crop up whenever you get a Ferrari within 100 meters of a garage then the regular servicing is cheap...
I salute the blokeconomics behind that double think! Brilliant. ;-)
Schnellmann said:
I really don't understand the people that say, just do it, you only live once..
Some people like to waste little time coming to a decision and executing once the facts are in. This is how I like to do things as time is precious and we aren't blessed with much of it. Some take an age to ponder every possible outcome before feeling comfortable with making a decision. Going by your great posts sharing your car buying adventures, I'd same this is how you operate, at least when it comes to cars. Nothing wrong with either way, it's all really down to what you feel comfortable with.If you are comfortable with stretching yourself to get it in your garage, then why not? Insure the car for an agreed value and spend time revelling in something very special.
It all boils down to being comfortable with the risk you are taking. Risk management. If you're happy with that, then go for it. I think the F40 is a great car to do this experiment with, as you are virtually (bot certainly not absolutely!!!) guaranteed the same or more money back when you sell it. But taking all costs into account you can lose GBP20 - 50k over a couple of years. If that is what you are willing to pay for the privilege, then go for it.
Like Schnellmann says - keep your eye on the worst case scenario.
Onno
Like Schnellmann says - keep your eye on the worst case scenario.
Onno
Schnellmann said:
I really don't understand the people that say, just do it, you only live once.
Sure you only live once but it is just for that reason that you wouldn't want a bad mistake today that could haunt you for the rest of your life (was recently watching a programme about a young, 18-year old girl, who was reckless in her driving and ended up crashing and will now spend the rest of her life in a wheelchair).
However great owning an F40 might be, if you were to end up having to sell the car and spend years in debt because of it I am not sure it would be worthwhile. Certainly would not be in my book.
If the OP is really serious about buying an F40 I suggest he doesn't think about the best case scenario but rather look at more realistic and worst-case scenarios too. As noted from people above, over one year you could easily lose £50k on an F40 (if you buy and sell via a dealer and have a bit of bad luck mechanically). If the OP's financial position is such that £50k would be painful but not disasterous and owning an F40 would be worthwhile at that amount, I'd say go for it. Of course, such a big hit can be mitagated if you can keep the car for long enough that any current, big costs can be offset by growth in value. However, that means you have to be financially solvent enough to be able to sit on a £350k asset for many years.
I had to do a similar analyis before buying my 355, which I only planned to run for the 4 months we were supposed to remain in Switzerland. My best case is that it will only cost me around £5k. However, I knew that it could easily end up at £10k-£15k and still went ahead knowing that because I also knew that we will probably never come back to live in Switzerland and so I might never get another opportunity to spend so long driving the great roads here (and the passes when they open) in such a classic Ferrari. Given that I've already done 2000 km in about 3 weeks of ownership I suspect I might be nearer the £15k than the £5k but so far it is definitely worthwhile :-)
Are you an accountant? Sure you only live once but it is just for that reason that you wouldn't want a bad mistake today that could haunt you for the rest of your life (was recently watching a programme about a young, 18-year old girl, who was reckless in her driving and ended up crashing and will now spend the rest of her life in a wheelchair).
However great owning an F40 might be, if you were to end up having to sell the car and spend years in debt because of it I am not sure it would be worthwhile. Certainly would not be in my book.
If the OP is really serious about buying an F40 I suggest he doesn't think about the best case scenario but rather look at more realistic and worst-case scenarios too. As noted from people above, over one year you could easily lose £50k on an F40 (if you buy and sell via a dealer and have a bit of bad luck mechanically). If the OP's financial position is such that £50k would be painful but not disasterous and owning an F40 would be worthwhile at that amount, I'd say go for it. Of course, such a big hit can be mitagated if you can keep the car for long enough that any current, big costs can be offset by growth in value. However, that means you have to be financially solvent enough to be able to sit on a £350k asset for many years.
I had to do a similar analyis before buying my 355, which I only planned to run for the 4 months we were supposed to remain in Switzerland. My best case is that it will only cost me around £5k. However, I knew that it could easily end up at £10k-£15k and still went ahead knowing that because I also knew that we will probably never come back to live in Switzerland and so I might never get another opportunity to spend so long driving the great roads here (and the passes when they open) in such a classic Ferrari. Given that I've already done 2000 km in about 3 weeks of ownership I suspect I might be nearer the £15k than the £5k but so far it is definitely worthwhile :-)
15k is a lot to rationalise for a 355!
AndrewD said:
Are you an accountant?
15k is a lot to rationalise for a 355!
Guilty as charged m'lud....15k is a lot to rationalise for a 355!
The 15k is (hopefully) the maximum. I certainly want it to be closer to the 5k. But I am really enjoying the 355. Helps that I'm not precious with it like I was with the CS. Last summer I managed 3000km with the CS and thought that was pretty good but I've already done 2000 km with the 355 in less than 4 weeks. Perhaps knowing that we won't be here for that much longer is also a spur to get out in the 355 at every opportunity.
JazzyO said:
I can tell you have no experience in this segment.
In 2011, I saw the ex-Adrian Newey 288GTO for sale at Dick Lovett's. I was all excited. But it took me 10 minutes on the internet to find out it was heavily crashed in 1986. I decided immediately not to buy it. I am not the only one who thinks like that. Crashed cars are worth less. There are only a couple of people where you would have your crashed F40 restored and the car is in that shop for months. People talk about crashed F40s. The Ferrari world is a small world and individual cars are tracked by many people who build history files. It is not possible to keep it secret, not even just because of the spotters but also because as soon as you have the incident there will be people with cell phones who take photo's and the thing goes viral. People love crashed hypercars.
Onno
Hum, no experience huh.... Well whatever you want to think.... With over 1300 built and many swapping countries over their lives there are more hidden stories out there than you can imagine. If you belive they've all been tracked throughout their lives I think you could be the one with lack of experience in this segment.In 2011, I saw the ex-Adrian Newey 288GTO for sale at Dick Lovett's. I was all excited. But it took me 10 minutes on the internet to find out it was heavily crashed in 1986. I decided immediately not to buy it. I am not the only one who thinks like that. Crashed cars are worth less. There are only a couple of people where you would have your crashed F40 restored and the car is in that shop for months. People talk about crashed F40s. The Ferrari world is a small world and individual cars are tracked by many people who build history files. It is not possible to keep it secret, not even just because of the spotters but also because as soon as you have the incident there will be people with cell phones who take photo's and the thing goes viral. People love crashed hypercars.
Onno
Schnellmann said:
I really don't understand the people that say, just do it, you only live once.
Sure you only live once but it is just for that reason that you wouldn't want a bad mistake today that could haunt you for the rest of your life (was recently watching a programme about a young, 18-year old girl, who was reckless in her driving and ended up crashing and will now spend the rest of her life in a wheelchair).
However great owning an F40 might be, if you were to end up having to sell the car and spend years in debt because of it I am not sure it would be worthwhile. Certainly would not be in my book.
If the OP is really serious about buying an F40 I suggest he doesn't think about the best case scenario but rather look at more realistic and worst-case scenarios too. As noted from people above, over one year you could easily lose £50k on an F40 (if you buy and sell via a dealer and have a bit of bad luck mechanically). If the OP's financial position is such that £50k would be painful but not disasterous and owning an F40 would be worthwhile at that amount, I'd say go for it. Of course, such a big hit can be mitagated if you can keep the car for long enough that any current, big costs can be offset by growth in value. However, that means you have to be financially solvent enough to be able to sit on a £350k asset for many years.
I had to do a similar analyis before buying my 355, which I only planned to run for the 4 months we were supposed to remain in Switzerland. My best case is that it will only cost me around £5k. However, I knew that it could easily end up at £10k-£15k and still went ahead knowing that because I also knew that we will probably never come back to live in Switzerland and so I might never get another opportunity to spend so long driving the great roads here (and the passes when they open) in such a classic Ferrari. Given that I've already done 2000 km in about 3 weeks of ownership I suspect I might be nearer the £15k than the £5k but so far it is definitely worthwhile :-)
Totally agree about the worst case scenario...it's a 25y/o car, anything could happen even to what looks like the best example out there.Sure you only live once but it is just for that reason that you wouldn't want a bad mistake today that could haunt you for the rest of your life (was recently watching a programme about a young, 18-year old girl, who was reckless in her driving and ended up crashing and will now spend the rest of her life in a wheelchair).
However great owning an F40 might be, if you were to end up having to sell the car and spend years in debt because of it I am not sure it would be worthwhile. Certainly would not be in my book.
If the OP is really serious about buying an F40 I suggest he doesn't think about the best case scenario but rather look at more realistic and worst-case scenarios too. As noted from people above, over one year you could easily lose £50k on an F40 (if you buy and sell via a dealer and have a bit of bad luck mechanically). If the OP's financial position is such that £50k would be painful but not disasterous and owning an F40 would be worthwhile at that amount, I'd say go for it. Of course, such a big hit can be mitagated if you can keep the car for long enough that any current, big costs can be offset by growth in value. However, that means you have to be financially solvent enough to be able to sit on a £350k asset for many years.
I had to do a similar analyis before buying my 355, which I only planned to run for the 4 months we were supposed to remain in Switzerland. My best case is that it will only cost me around £5k. However, I knew that it could easily end up at £10k-£15k and still went ahead knowing that because I also knew that we will probably never come back to live in Switzerland and so I might never get another opportunity to spend so long driving the great roads here (and the passes when they open) in such a classic Ferrari. Given that I've already done 2000 km in about 3 weeks of ownership I suspect I might be nearer the £15k than the £5k but so far it is definitely worthwhile :-)
Take my case, bought one 2 months ago, always serviced and well looked after by his long dated previous owner. Did 750kms with it, shipped to Italy to enjoy it a little with the good season (Millemiglia was planned, weekends in South of France etc)...after few kms there noticed that one of the cylinders stopped running, the car was effectively turning on 7 cylinders. Sent the car to the best F40 specialist in Italy and the result is the failure of one of the exhaust valves on the 4th cylinder. Nothing predictable, the car was checked and had good compression levels on all cylinders when I bought it.
The damage per se isn't bad (you can just replace that valve with the engine still in place) but as I want to drive the car with peace of mind and am not planning to sell it anytime soon I'll have the top part of the engine completely rebuilt...and when you have "F40" and "Best Specialist" in the same sentence you can understand it's never good news!
So my advice is, buy it, best car ever, but don't rely on the 1.5k + insurance/service per year. If you can afford 10x what you budgeted in case something goes wrong then you should consider it. If I was to consider to finance the car I would do it only if I had the means to buy the car outright in any case (ie you finance it to put your money at work in order to generate better returns then your cost of financing...) otherwise as a rule of thumb I'll leave it.
Don't think it is going to increase massively in value over the next 1-2yrs, if anything I see the market softening a little bit (prices will not necessarily go down, but more likely stuff won't move)
Maxige said:
Totally agree about the worst case scenario...it's a 25y/o car, anything could happen even to what looks like the best example out there.
Take my case, bought one 2 months ago, always serviced and well looked after by his long dated previous owner. Did 750kms with it, shipped to Italy to enjoy it a little with the good season (Millemiglia was planned, weekends in South of France etc)...after few kms there noticed that one of the cylinders stopped running, the car was effectively turning on 7 cylinders. Sent the car to the best F40 specialist in Italy and the result is the failure of one of the exhaust valves on the 4th cylinder. Nothing predictable, the car was checked and had good compression levels on all cylinders when I bought it.
The damage per se isn't bad (you can just replace that valve with the engine still in place) but as I want to drive the car with peace of mind and am not planning to sell it anytime soon I'll have the top part of the engine completely rebuilt...and when you have "F40" and "Best Specialist" in the same sentence you can understand it's never good news!
So my advice is, buy it, best car ever, but don't rely on the 1.5k + insurance/service per year. If you can afford 10x what you budgeted in case something goes wrong then you should consider it. If I was to consider to finance the car I would do it only if I had the means to buy the car outright in any case (ie you finance it to put your money at work in order to generate better returns then your cost of financing...) otherwise as a rule of thumb I'll leave it.
Don't think it is going to increase massively in value over the next 1-2yrs, if anything I see the market softening a little bit (prices will not necessarily go down, but more likely stuff won't move)
Now that sounds like excellent advice...Take my case, bought one 2 months ago, always serviced and well looked after by his long dated previous owner. Did 750kms with it, shipped to Italy to enjoy it a little with the good season (Millemiglia was planned, weekends in South of France etc)...after few kms there noticed that one of the cylinders stopped running, the car was effectively turning on 7 cylinders. Sent the car to the best F40 specialist in Italy and the result is the failure of one of the exhaust valves on the 4th cylinder. Nothing predictable, the car was checked and had good compression levels on all cylinders when I bought it.
The damage per se isn't bad (you can just replace that valve with the engine still in place) but as I want to drive the car with peace of mind and am not planning to sell it anytime soon I'll have the top part of the engine completely rebuilt...and when you have "F40" and "Best Specialist" in the same sentence you can understand it's never good news!
So my advice is, buy it, best car ever, but don't rely on the 1.5k + insurance/service per year. If you can afford 10x what you budgeted in case something goes wrong then you should consider it. If I was to consider to finance the car I would do it only if I had the means to buy the car outright in any case (ie you finance it to put your money at work in order to generate better returns then your cost of financing...) otherwise as a rule of thumb I'll leave it.
Don't think it is going to increase massively in value over the next 1-2yrs, if anything I see the market softening a little bit (prices will not necessarily go down, but more likely stuff won't move)
Some great advice from Maxige above.
Apologies for keep posting on this topic but it is very dear to my heart as I went through the same thoughts last year. In the end I didn't find a good F40 at a good price and in any case I was having problems selling the idea to myself as in the back of my mind was the thought that we might return to the UK (where my employment options are uncertain).
However, my F40 fund is intact and if I can find a decent job in the UK then I will be resurrecting the plan (have already told my wife that if I'm going to have to commute from Cambridgr to London each day I need something to sweeten the pain!)
Apologies for keep posting on this topic but it is very dear to my heart as I went through the same thoughts last year. In the end I didn't find a good F40 at a good price and in any case I was having problems selling the idea to myself as in the back of my mind was the thought that we might return to the UK (where my employment options are uncertain).
However, my F40 fund is intact and if I can find a decent job in the UK then I will be resurrecting the plan (have already told my wife that if I'm going to have to commute from Cambridgr to London each day I need something to sweeten the pain!)
With the way prices are going (and are only going to continue to go) when it comes to F40s, the adage from my old pal BJ comes to my mind..
he whom hesitates...masturbates.
If you dont get one soon, you'll end up watching someone else take the last girl at the dance and be left watching from the side lines on your jack jones!
he whom hesitates...masturbates.
If you dont get one soon, you'll end up watching someone else take the last girl at the dance and be left watching from the side lines on your jack jones!
JamieBeeston said:
With the way prices are going (and are only going to continue to go) when it comes to F40s, the adage from my old pal BJ comes to my mind..
he whom hesitates...masturbates.
If you dont get one soon, you'll end up watching someone else take the last girl at the dance and be left watching from the side lines on your jack jones!
Freud would have a field day with you, my friend he whom hesitates...masturbates.
If you dont get one soon, you'll end up watching someone else take the last girl at the dance and be left watching from the side lines on your jack jones!
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