Top 5 greatest drivers in all disciplines
Discussion
Interesting the number of myths about peoples' prowess across all motor sports forms. Moss's rally successes were in a form of competition that was mostly a regularity run on public roads (usually an excuse for well-healed sports saloon owners to meet up in an exclusive european hotspot for a bunfight). Clark's 1966 RAC (and sole) rally exploit is the beneficiary of rose-tinted specs. Vic Elford's quote when asked about his performance nails it; "If I was getting the help he's getting I'd be leading; if he was getting the help I'm getting he'd be out."
Current WRC top 10s mean nothing against a field of 13-15 cars, far more indicative of Raikkonen's rally ability is putting his Citroen in a ditch ON THE WAY TO SHAKEDOWN! Early signs are that Kubica has the right stuff to win in WRC but then he only has the one GP win to his name.
Vic Elford's ability can not be underestimated, between January and April 1968 he had won the Monte Carlo Rally, the Daytona 24 hrs and his class in the opening British Saloon car Championship round. He topped it by taking 4th place in his first GP driving the motorised pig known as the Cooper-BRM.
Current WRC top 10s mean nothing against a field of 13-15 cars, far more indicative of Raikkonen's rally ability is putting his Citroen in a ditch ON THE WAY TO SHAKEDOWN! Early signs are that Kubica has the right stuff to win in WRC but then he only has the one GP win to his name.
Vic Elford's ability can not be underestimated, between January and April 1968 he had won the Monte Carlo Rally, the Daytona 24 hrs and his class in the opening British Saloon car Championship round. He topped it by taking 4th place in his first GP driving the motorised pig known as the Cooper-BRM.
alangla said:
If you're going to mention Rossi, I guess Raikkonen should also be mentioned. F1 world champion & two top 10 finishes in the WRC. Whether he's considered a great I guess depends on what he does next (more Nascar, Le Mans, winning the WRC?)
No! Raikkonen flopped in the WRC, and kept getting the old 'give him time to learn and he'll get there', or 'wait till the tarmac round then he'll impress'. Well after 2 seasons of crashing and nothing more than mixing it with Matt Wilson and Ken Block down the bottom end of the top 10 he switched back to F1. His pace on tarmac was nothing other than luke warm. I cant see a return to wrc for him, if he does, he certainly wont win much!
compare him with Robert Kubica, who is driving pretty much one handed these days and is impressing more than Raikkonen did in his 2 seasons!
Trophybloo said:
Interesting the number of myths about peoples' prowess across all motor sports forms. Moss's rally successes were in a form of competition that was mostly a regularity run on public roads (usually an excuse for well-healed sports saloon owners to meet up in an exclusive european hotspot for a bunfight). Clark's 1966 RAC (and sole) rally exploit is the beneficiary of rose-tinted specs. Vic Elford's quote when asked about his performance nails it; "If I was getting the help he's getting I'd be leading; if he was getting the help I'm getting he'd be out."
Current WRC top 10s mean nothing against a field of 13-15 cars, far more indicative of Raikkonen's rally ability is putting his Citroen in a ditch ON THE WAY TO SHAKEDOWN! Early signs are that Kubica has the right stuff to win in WRC but then he only has the one GP win to his name.
Vic Elford's ability can not be underestimated, between January and April 1968 he had won the Monte Carlo Rally, the Daytona 24 hrs and his class in the opening British Saloon car Championship round. He topped it by taking 4th place in his first GP driving the motorised pig known as the Cooper-BRM.
They're not myths though. Moss averaged nearly 100mph over 1000 miles on open roads - fact.Current WRC top 10s mean nothing against a field of 13-15 cars, far more indicative of Raikkonen's rally ability is putting his Citroen in a ditch ON THE WAY TO SHAKEDOWN! Early signs are that Kubica has the right stuff to win in WRC but then he only has the one GP win to his name.
Vic Elford's ability can not be underestimated, between January and April 1968 he had won the Monte Carlo Rally, the Daytona 24 hrs and his class in the opening British Saloon car Championship round. He topped it by taking 4th place in his first GP driving the motorised pig known as the Cooper-BRM.
Yes there were some amateurs racing too, but also some well known names such as Fangio...
Clark surprised all the quick (mainly Swedish) rally drivers of the day when he made his rally debut.
He was fastest of the day on three stages, and second fastest on seven.
http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/halloffame/jim-c...
I'm not going to criticise Elford, but there's no way he was a better driver than Clark.
Regarding Raikkonen, Loeb rated him and reckoned he should have stayed in rallying rather than moved back to F1. He said he can't be competitive in his first year as he is only learning.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formul...
I absolutely agree with the Vic Elford verdict. And rallies in the 50s weren't all regularity - if you've seen any footage of the Alpine Rally in those days you'll know that it was very difficult indeed to maintain the required average speed. The mountain passes were gravel-surfaced single-lane tracks and very often the locals ignored the need to keep the road clear. Stirling Moss got a Gold Cup for three consecutive "cleans".
I was on another website a few months ago to discuss when the "allrounder" era stopped. I reckon the first world champion who didn't do other events on the same card was Emmo. He came up through lesser formulae, and went on to do Indy, but whilst he was F1 champ he didn't do sports cars or saloons or anything, unlike Clark, Hill, Stewart etc.
I'm a bit confused by the references to Petty & co. - did they do anything outside Stockers ?
I was on another website a few months ago to discuss when the "allrounder" era stopped. I reckon the first world champion who didn't do other events on the same card was Emmo. He came up through lesser formulae, and went on to do Indy, but whilst he was F1 champ he didn't do sports cars or saloons or anything, unlike Clark, Hill, Stewart etc.
I'm a bit confused by the references to Petty & co. - did they do anything outside Stockers ?
Poor old Graham Hill is overlooked here! (apart from the OP)
He won 6 times at Monaco, twice world champion in F1, Indy 500 and Le mans. He also raced cortinas etc. So he deserves a mention.
However, I think Loeb maybe the best of all of them...
I think Anthony Reid can also drive almost anything bloody fast, too
He won 6 times at Monaco, twice world champion in F1, Indy 500 and Le mans. He also raced cortinas etc. So he deserves a mention.
However, I think Loeb maybe the best of all of them...
I think Anthony Reid can also drive almost anything bloody fast, too
SlipStream77 said:
Regarding Raikkonen, Loeb rated him and reckoned he should have stayed in rallying rather than moved back to F1. He said he can't be competitive in his first year as he is only learning.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formul...
that article was for his 1st year in rallying. he did stay on the extra year as Loeb said. still flopped! a much better track driver than a rally driver!http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formul...
He was a prick if you ever met him whilst he was in the racing mood, but a great guy in 'normal' mode!
SlipStream77 said:
They're not myths though. Moss averaged nearly 100mph over 1000 miles on open roads - fact.
Yes there were some amateurs racing too, but also some well known names such as Fangio...
You are confusing the Mille Miglia with a Rally. Although Moss/Jenks invented the pace not for their win they were not exactly on open roads (just the odd stray donkey cart) there were a number of cars preceding them at minute intervals and the event was hardly unpublicised!Yes there were some amateurs racing too, but also some well known names such as Fangio...
SlipStream77 said:
Clark surprised all the quick (mainly Swedish) rally drivers of the day when he made his rally debut.
He was fastest of the day on three stages, and second fastest on seven.
http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/halloffame/jim-c...
I'm not going to criticise Elford, but there's no way he was a better driver than Clark.
Actually the complementary quotes from the Swedes were from those in the Ford team, you know.. the Ford team that invented motorsport 'spin'. No Elford wasn't as good in single seaters as Clark but as good in prototype sports and far better on unknown roads - I didn't mention his Targa Florio or Nurburgring feats.He was fastest of the day on three stages, and second fastest on seven.
http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/halloffame/jim-c...
I'm not going to criticise Elford, but there's no way he was a better driver than Clark.
SlipStream77 said:
Regarding Raikkonen, Loeb rated him and reckoned he should have stayed in rallying rather than moved back to F1. He said he can't be competitive in his first year as he is only learning.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formul...
That's a Red Bull Citroen driver talking about another Red Bull Citroen Driver (see Ford above) Raikkonen had the use of the best machinery for his two years of rallying and was seldom better than the much-derided Ken Block.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formul...
As for the Coupes d'Ors des Alpines wins for Moss, the fact that he took 3 consecutives (despite the nature of the alpine roads) has a lot more to do with the fact that the timings were not set for a topclass professional driver
A vote for AJ Foyt btw
Edited by Trophybloo on Thursday 23 May 14:05
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