Discussion
Car has a white rear plate indicating it's most likely left hand drive.
Assuming the car driver actually did a shoulder check the bike could have been hidden behind the rear pillar. Still, they did move out unnecessarily quickly and late imo. The overtake was on at around 17 seconds when the last oncoming car passed and due to the right hand bend the view up the road was good. He/she decided to move out 3 seconds later
Assuming the car driver actually did a shoulder check the bike could have been hidden behind the rear pillar. Still, they did move out unnecessarily quickly and late imo. The overtake was on at around 17 seconds when the last oncoming car passed and due to the right hand bend the view up the road was good. He/she decided to move out 3 seconds later
Fats25 said:
RemaL said:
I would say the bikers at fault
I was going to go, then held back as I seen he was about to move
I hope you followed the 2nd car on the overtake, and then blatted past him as well. That would have been what I would have done!I was going to go, then held back as I seen he was about to move
Fats25 said:
J B L said:
Friendly reminder for all the guys going to France this summer (if I may):
The vehicle that's directly behind the obstacle has priority to overtake, be it on the A/B roads or motorways. That's why you often see overtakers letting other vehicles -which are coming up to a truck (usually)- out instead of flooring it.
If this video happened accross La Manche, the rider would be 100% at fault in the eyes of the law.
JB - can you also confirm if this is true or not - because it certainly appears this way at times, that minor roads often have priority to join a major road in France, not as it is in the UK?The vehicle that's directly behind the obstacle has priority to overtake, be it on the A/B roads or motorways. That's why you often see overtakers letting other vehicles -which are coming up to a truck (usually)- out instead of flooring it.
If this video happened accross La Manche, the rider would be 100% at fault in the eyes of the law.
The origin of this law is the infamous priorité à droite or give way to the right; if you're on a main road and there's a junction up ahead with a road coming from the right be wary that it could have priority over you.
As I said, less and less of these exist but if you're travelling on such a road you'll find that sign on your itinerary...:
...meaning you haven't got priority, as opposed to this one:
which signifies that you are on a road which has got priority over the others that may join it.
There are still a lot of 'give way to the right' in cities though.
Now, this is the theory....this is France after all, I'll take a step back and let the jokes begin
TOTALLY THE CAR'S FAULT!!!
Can't believe anyone see's it differently!
That's why it's mirror - signal - manoeuvre..............not as some people do (this driver case in point) manoeuvre - signal - mirror.
The bike was out beside the car when the car decided to overtake, how else would the car have side swiped the bike?
I have personally seen this exact type of accident, the car driver got done for careless and the biker was lucky to land in a soft ditch with bruising and a broken finger.
Can't believe anyone see's it differently!
That's why it's mirror - signal - manoeuvre..............not as some people do (this driver case in point) manoeuvre - signal - mirror.
The bike was out beside the car when the car decided to overtake, how else would the car have side swiped the bike?
I have personally seen this exact type of accident, the car driver got done for careless and the biker was lucky to land in a soft ditch with bruising and a broken finger.
Edited by mike150 on Tuesday 21st May 13:53
I don’t see anything other than the car being at fault here.
The driver of the car moved INTO the bike… not the other way around. It’s the car driver’s due diligence to check there is no obstacle where they are moving into. The bike did not swerve into the car and the bike was not doing anything illegal from what I can see.
The excuse of being in their 'blind spot' doesn't hold water for me I'm afraid.
The driver of the car moved INTO the bike… not the other way around. It’s the car driver’s due diligence to check there is no obstacle where they are moving into. The bike did not swerve into the car and the bike was not doing anything illegal from what I can see.
The excuse of being in their 'blind spot' doesn't hold water for me I'm afraid.
spareparts said:
LOUD PIPES SAVES LIVES 
I see that as the car's fault, especially swerving out so violently, although it's difficult to tell if the car looked like it was making a run up behind the car in front already.
Realistically, any numpty knows, if you have a row of bikes behind you, you really check carefully before making an overtake in case they are already coming by.
mike150 said:
TOTALLY THE CAR'S FAULT!!!
Can't believe anyone see's it differently!
That's why it's mirror - signal - manoeuvre..............not as some people do (this driver case in point) manoeuvre - signal - mirror.
The bike was out beside the car when the car decided to overtake, how else would the car have side swiped the bike?
I have personally seen this exact type of accident, the car driver got done for careless and the biker was lucky to land in a soft ditch with bruising and a broken finger.
Does it matter? It's always the biker that will come off worse.Can't believe anyone see's it differently!
That's why it's mirror - signal - manoeuvre..............not as some people do (this driver case in point) manoeuvre - signal - mirror.
The bike was out beside the car when the car decided to overtake, how else would the car have side swiped the bike?
I have personally seen this exact type of accident, the car driver got done for careless and the biker was lucky to land in a soft ditch with bruising and a broken finger.
Edited by mike150 on Tuesday 21st May 13:53
Living out "in the sticks" we have plenty of roads like this and it's up to YOU to use Your observation skills.
If you've been trailing some cars and an overtake opportunity comes up, what's the car in front? Old dodderer? MPV with mother distracted by kids? Somebody with a dog jumping about in the car? Chavved up Saxo with a fart can exhaust? Mr & Mrs Normal?
Have they been tucked in the whole time? Have they been darting in and out looking for a previous opportunity to overtake themselves?
What's the badge on the back of the car? A 318 BMW might not have the power for an overtake. What if it's an M3?
What's coming the other way? Artic? Car with a caravan? Tractor? Is anybody likely to have been held up behind them and will they be darting out?
Are you riding to impress your mates? Does it matter if you get to your destination 5 minutes later?
Lot's of info to process on a ride out. No good being in the right when your in a ditch with the bike on top of you, is there?
Be safe
no idea if the biker used his horn to signify overtaking, had his indicator on, or car was indicating, or from the duration of the trip the car was hunting the car in front of it (suggesting it would overtake at first chance) or that the car was chavved out/being driven erratically (suggesting the driver might be immature/unpredictable) etc etc - I'll abstain.
Looked like a very nasty trip into that wall, hope the biker survived it.
Looked like a very nasty trip into that wall, hope the biker survived it.
HD Adam said:
Does it matter? It's always the biker that will come off worse.
Living out "in the sticks" we have plenty of roads like this and it's up to YOU to use Your observation skills.
If you've been trailing some cars and an overtake opportunity comes up, what's the car in front? Old dodderer? MPV with mother distracted by kids? Somebody with a dog jumping about in the car? Chavved up Saxo with a fart can exhaust? Mr & Mrs Normal?
Have they been tucked in the whole time? Have they been darting in and out looking for a previous opportunity to overtake themselves?
What's the badge on the back of the car? A 318 BMW might not have the power for an overtake. What if it's an M3?
What's coming the other way? Artic? Car with a caravan? Tractor? Is anybody likely to have been held up behind them and will they be darting out?
Are you riding to impress your mates? Does it matter if you get to your destination 5 minutes later?
Lot's of info to process on a ride out. No good being in the right when your in a ditch with the bike on top of you, is there?
Be safe
this .i would imagine the car driver will get most/all of the blame when it comes to court,but the biker did himself no favours.Living out "in the sticks" we have plenty of roads like this and it's up to YOU to use Your observation skills.
If you've been trailing some cars and an overtake opportunity comes up, what's the car in front? Old dodderer? MPV with mother distracted by kids? Somebody with a dog jumping about in the car? Chavved up Saxo with a fart can exhaust? Mr & Mrs Normal?
Have they been tucked in the whole time? Have they been darting in and out looking for a previous opportunity to overtake themselves?
What's the badge on the back of the car? A 318 BMW might not have the power for an overtake. What if it's an M3?
What's coming the other way? Artic? Car with a caravan? Tractor? Is anybody likely to have been held up behind them and will they be darting out?
Are you riding to impress your mates? Does it matter if you get to your destination 5 minutes later?
Lot's of info to process on a ride out. No good being in the right when your in a ditch with the bike on top of you, is there?
Be safe
there are plenty bikers that hoon around this country and europe for decades bouncing sports bikes off the limiter that dont egt punted into ditches,they cant all be lucky.
as another poster says,assume EVERY other vehicle on the road is out to kill you and ride accordingly.
only imo,but i think this crash could have been avoided if the biker had just accelerated much quicker,maybe dropping 2 gears instead of one,but as has been said,all the signs were there from the cars positioning that he was pulling out at the first available opportunity.
i hope the biker gets well soon.
J B L said:
It is still true but more and more restrictions (Stops and Give ways) are being put in place.
The origin of this law is the infamous priorité à droite or give way to the right; if you're on a main road and there's a junction up ahead with a road coming from the right be wary that it could have priority over you.
As I said, less and less of these exist but if you're travelling on such a road you'll find that sign on your itinerary...:
...meaning you haven't got priority, as opposed to this one:
which signifies that you are on a road which has got priority over the others that may join it.
There are still a lot of 'give way to the right' in cities though.
Oh I thought the priority-to-the-right was indicated with the yellow diamond with a black line or without a black line through it. What is the yellow diamond sign for then if it is not priority to the right?The origin of this law is the infamous priorité à droite or give way to the right; if you're on a main road and there's a junction up ahead with a road coming from the right be wary that it could have priority over you.
As I said, less and less of these exist but if you're travelling on such a road you'll find that sign on your itinerary...:
...meaning you haven't got priority, as opposed to this one:
which signifies that you are on a road which has got priority over the others that may join it.
There are still a lot of 'give way to the right' in cities though.
I've just re-watched this video, this time in HD on my laptop.
Unfortunate: the rider who crashed pulled off a standard police roadcraft handbook overtake coming out of a right-hand bend. He positioned close to the vehicle he was overtaking in the left hand side of the road to maximise the view and as the road started to straighten, he pulled to the offside and nailed it. Perhaps he could have been a teensy bit closer when he started the overtake, but really I can't see what he did wrong.
Unfortunate: the rider who crashed pulled off a standard police roadcraft handbook overtake coming out of a right-hand bend. He positioned close to the vehicle he was overtaking in the left hand side of the road to maximise the view and as the road started to straighten, he pulled to the offside and nailed it. Perhaps he could have been a teensy bit closer when he started the overtake, but really I can't see what he did wrong.
That road is near me, 17 seconds in there is a sign that says "Chorley" Here it is on Google Maps (I hope)
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&am...
The crash was where Belmont Raod peels off Rivington Road - Belmont Road is a gated off green lane and not useable by traffic.
Yazza knows the road very well and had a helicopter ride off it himself.
BN drove it in my car a few years back.
There are three things at play here:
1. Driving offences - will plod prosecute either party?
2. Civil liability - insurance resolution
3. Roadcraft
None of the above are necessarily directly linked to each other and the confusion on the thread is a bit of a weird one.
I've no idea on point 1.
Point 2 it'll probably be a 50/50 bad moves by both IMO
Point 3: This is where the biker is stupid. It's a narrow road with bumps that will have the front off the road at anything over 50mph in many places and the rear too over 70 and some very tight bends. Bikers (me included) are notoriously impatient on that stretch, as it's a great road to ride, but often clogged up with daytrippers doing 20mph admiring the scenery. Less than a mile from where they crashed is a left right flick that's quite awkward, a tightening left into a very tight steep downhill right and then a narrow run to a farm. That road is not one to ride impatiently or at any speed unless it's completely clear.
It's very narrow and cars are often in the middle of the road.
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&am...
The crash was where Belmont Raod peels off Rivington Road - Belmont Road is a gated off green lane and not useable by traffic.
Yazza knows the road very well and had a helicopter ride off it himself.
BN drove it in my car a few years back.
There are three things at play here:
1. Driving offences - will plod prosecute either party?
2. Civil liability - insurance resolution
3. Roadcraft
None of the above are necessarily directly linked to each other and the confusion on the thread is a bit of a weird one.
I've no idea on point 1.
Point 2 it'll probably be a 50/50 bad moves by both IMO
Point 3: This is where the biker is stupid. It's a narrow road with bumps that will have the front off the road at anything over 50mph in many places and the rear too over 70 and some very tight bends. Bikers (me included) are notoriously impatient on that stretch, as it's a great road to ride, but often clogged up with daytrippers doing 20mph admiring the scenery. Less than a mile from where they crashed is a left right flick that's quite awkward, a tightening left into a very tight steep downhill right and then a narrow run to a farm. That road is not one to ride impatiently or at any speed unless it's completely clear.
It's very narrow and cars are often in the middle of the road.
Edited by LoonR1 on Tuesday 21st May 21:58
I f
king hate that road. The surface isn't great, often water running across the road, hidden bumps, banzai cyclists and cars. It's a nightmare. It's hard to really tell what's gone on from watching that on the iPhone but as someone who's ridden that road numerous times and fell pray to it once I have to agree with loon.
king hate that road. The surface isn't great, often water running across the road, hidden bumps, banzai cyclists and cars. It's a nightmare. It's hard to really tell what's gone on from watching that on the iPhone but as someone who's ridden that road numerous times and fell pray to it once I have to agree with loon.creampuff said:
I've just re-watched this video, this time in HD on my laptop
Me too, and frame-by-frame.creampuff said:
Unfortunate: the rider who crashed pulled off a standard police roadcraft handbook overtake coming out of a right-hand bend. He positioned close to the vehicle he was overtaking in the left hand side of the road to maximise the view and as the road started to straighten, he pulled to the offside and nailed it. Perhaps he could have been a teensy bit closer when he started the overtake, but really I can't see what he did wrong.
He has positioned to the left to around the bend for a better view. He has then swung across behind the car to pass it whilst accelerating.He didn't appear to move right across to the other side of the road before accelerating hard, probably because he wanted to get past quickly along the short straight before the brow ...We've probably all done similar at times and it is too easy to pass judgement.
The driver has presumably seen the bike behind and then not realised that it was alongside. Bad, but, as others have said, the biker is the one taking the much larger risk of injury and it was possibly likely that the car would go for it, even if it the distance to the horizon wasn't that far away and possibly not wise(FWIW, in many times of driving over there, I don't think I've ever overtaken a car in any of my cars around that point and I'd be wary of a biker possibly coming over the brow towards me at a ton-up)
I've always been aware that this sort of accident could happen whilst riding, although thankfully never experienced it.
Whilst on the bike, I do *generally* move well across to make myself visible in the overtakee's mirrors before accelerating and I've thankfully always anticipated when a vehicle was likely/about to pull out into my path (the type of car and the driver's earlier behaviour can tell you a lot) -they've either seen me and/or I've got onto my (uprated) horn(s) to alert them to their presence/wake them up.
In the car, because it can't accelerate as quickly, I do often get onto the gas(to get the turbo spooling) in the left-hand line, although I know there is a risk of the overtakee braking in front of me as I get closer.
Edited by MC Bodge on Tuesday 21st May 22:57
Another way to approach it is to ask yourself, would that have happened to me?, would I have gone for that overtake?.
If the answer is no, you already know why, that bike rider didn't know (or had a momentary lapse of reason) why he/she shouldn't have. Anticipate, expect the unexpected, if a car can pull out on you it *will*.
I don't really care too much about % at fault as that is a matter for Insurance companies and would have no bearing on how I felt about my involvement/actions leading up in the accident.
If the answer is no, you already know why, that bike rider didn't know (or had a momentary lapse of reason) why he/she shouldn't have. Anticipate, expect the unexpected, if a car can pull out on you it *will*.
I don't really care too much about % at fault as that is a matter for Insurance companies and would have no bearing on how I felt about my involvement/actions leading up in the accident.
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