New Roundabout Rules - Give way to the left?
Discussion
Few people know how to use roundabouts, it's usually just a case of eyes shut, boot down for many I think.
This roundabout near the Beckton Triangle in London is amazing in the mornings during rush hour; the three right hand lanes are to go straight ahead to Canary Wharf, (where I'm usually headed), or to the right back onto the North Circular. The two lanes on the left are to go to the Beckton Triangle. Every single morning you have to dodge half-wits that suddenly realise they are in the wrong lane and barrel across in front of you without looking.
Roundabout
Streetview
This roundabout near the Beckton Triangle in London is amazing in the mornings during rush hour; the three right hand lanes are to go straight ahead to Canary Wharf, (where I'm usually headed), or to the right back onto the North Circular. The two lanes on the left are to go to the Beckton Triangle. Every single morning you have to dodge half-wits that suddenly realise they are in the wrong lane and barrel across in front of you without looking.
Roundabout
Streetview
yellowjack said:
I'm not surprised. I had to go to County Court to answer 'charges' (they're not criminal charges, thankfully) of failing to stop after an accident. Only I wasn't involved in any accident. So that's what my statement said, no more, no less. I also had a receipt from a petrol station putting me 'DeLorean/88mph' away from the location/time of the accident. My accuser then shovelled some horse-s
t about "it could have been later, I don't have a watch, or a dashboard clock" (despite it being a BMW 3 series, and him being a site manager, FFS) and flanneling the judge that he'd simply "presumed" the time of the accident, based on his normal arrival time at work.
My insurance company backed me, and fought it, and the legal fella representing me seemed confident of it going our (the RIGHT) way. Judge had other ideas, stating that my evidence lacked credibility (he ruled out my being allowed to refer to a diary, so I was unable to answer questions with exact dates, etc.) and decided "that on the balance of probabilities, the accident DID occur, and that again, on the balance of probabilities, I WAS the driver involved". Now I've no doubt that there was some kind of collision, in which a 'silver coloured Vauxhall Vectra' collided with this bell-end's BMW, but it wasn't mine/me. The fact that this moron took down my reg number at a set of traffic lights 2 Miles from the accident site was fine according to the Judge - after all, just how common a sight do you think silver Vectra C's are on the roads, eh?
Judgement went against me, so my insurer has to cough up for HIS damage, despite an engineer's report finding NO DAMAGE on mine, and no doubt next year I'll find that there's a 'fault claim' against me at renewal, despite the fact that I was not involved in the bloody accident.
Worst of all, it just reinforces the stereotype - management level BMW driver with crappy personalised plate, a cheap suit, and absolutely no integrity whatsoever.
To me now, BMW stands for Bloody Massive Wr!
The only evidence that you were involved is this guy's testimony?t about "it could have been later, I don't have a watch, or a dashboard clock" (despite it being a BMW 3 series, and him being a site manager, FFS) and flanneling the judge that he'd simply "presumed" the time of the accident, based on his normal arrival time at work.My insurance company backed me, and fought it, and the legal fella representing me seemed confident of it going our (the RIGHT) way. Judge had other ideas, stating that my evidence lacked credibility (he ruled out my being allowed to refer to a diary, so I was unable to answer questions with exact dates, etc.) and decided "that on the balance of probabilities, the accident DID occur, and that again, on the balance of probabilities, I WAS the driver involved". Now I've no doubt that there was some kind of collision, in which a 'silver coloured Vauxhall Vectra' collided with this bell-end's BMW, but it wasn't mine/me. The fact that this moron took down my reg number at a set of traffic lights 2 Miles from the accident site was fine according to the Judge - after all, just how common a sight do you think silver Vectra C's are on the roads, eh?
Judgement went against me, so my insurer has to cough up for HIS damage, despite an engineer's report finding NO DAMAGE on mine, and no doubt next year I'll find that there's a 'fault claim' against me at renewal, despite the fact that I was not involved in the bloody accident.
Worst of all, it just reinforces the stereotype - management level BMW driver with crappy personalised plate, a cheap suit, and absolutely no integrity whatsoever.
To me now, BMW stands for Bloody Massive W
r!
regards the quoted post) .eltax91 said:
I've been giving way for people from the left at roundabouts since Sunday, it seems it's the accepted practice nowadays. 
Mind you, I am in France.
Not all of 'em Mind you, I am in France.
- there's one in Anjou where yours truly was astounded to approach a roundabout and see a wall of cars stopped on the roundabout waiting for me to pootle on (and this after 1500 miles of driving in France, from Dieppe to Beziers and en route back to Dieppe again) - followed by impromptu stalling at the white line 
...My goodness, are these old-fashioned French roundabouts rare
.I've noticed recently people tending to dawdle on exit trajectory. It's like they go round at the normal speed but when they've reached the exit road they trundle across - which means that if you're accustomed to regular roundabout speed you expect to be pulling out behind them when in fact they're still crossing your path.
Not sure I explained that well but I was always taught to gun it when you're pointing at your exit on a roundabout.
Not sure I explained that well but I was always taught to gun it when you're pointing at your exit on a roundabout.
colonel c said:
Conversely there are those who believe that their right of way fro a roundabout begins 10 to 20 meters before they actually enter the roundabout if they are going fast enough. Then they get uptight if they have to slam on because someone entered if first. This tend to happen very often on mini roundabouts.
Completely agree with that. Similar to bikers who round a bend at an insane speed and complain about people pulling out on them who would never pull out if they had to assume an oncoming vehicle travelling at far in excess of the speed limit.A T-junction near me was made into a mini roundabout junction some time ago. The other day some members of the local travelling community with a Transit truck full of acquired scrap metal were sitting at the end of the side road utterly bemused by me and all the other people coming across the roundabout from their right and were trying to shove through the line of traffic whilst sounding their horn and giving us all wker signs utterly convinced they had right of way.
ker signs utterly convinced they had right of way. rallen said:
The only evidence that you were involved is this guy's testimony?
That's pretty much it. His testimony/statement and an itemised bill for the repairs to his tboxtbox (I was right first time).Right from the off, when I received the letter from Surrey Police, I asked them to look at my car, and offered to take it to them. I naïvely assumed that the Police would investigate and eliminate me from the enquiry, but they seemed content to do all their investigations from the comfort of their office chairs. All they ended up saying was that there was "insufficient evidence to proceed" with charges of "leaving the scene of..." and "failing to report..." but that one of their traffic cameras (ANPR?) proved that I was on the same road as the accident that morning. Something which I had already confirmed was the case.
Foolishly, neither I, nor my insurer, thought it necessary to get the car inspected, at least not until the court papers were served. Judge decided to ignore our engineer's report on the basis that 6 months had passed between the alleged collision and the report (plenty of time to affect a repair, he said).
I've lost all faith in the courts/justice system now. 25 years of blemish-free service in the Army, the last 7 of them spent accounting for explosives/ammo for an EOD unit, and now, for the first time EVER, on the word of a spineless jellyfish and a useless County Court Judge my integrity has been called into question. Bastids.
Worse followed, when I was informed that the only route to appeal a decision in the County Court was on the basis of incorrect legal process, so I just had to "suck it up".
yellowjack said:
That's pretty much it. His testimony/statement and an itemised bill for the repairs to his stbox
BMW stbox (I was right first time).
Right from the off, when I received the letter from Surrey Police, I asked them to look at my car, and offered to take it to them. I naïvely assumed that the Police would investigate and eliminate me from the enquiry, but they seemed content to do all their investigations from the comfort of their office chairs. All they ended up saying was that there was "insufficient evidence to proceed" with charges of "leaving the scene of..." and "failing to report..." but that one of their traffic cameras (ANPR?) proved that I was on the same road as the accident that morning. Something which I had already confirmed was the case.
Foolishly, neither I, nor my insurer, thought it necessary to get the car inspected, at least not until the court papers were served. Judge decided to ignore our engineer's report on the basis that 6 months had passed between the alleged collision and the report (plenty of time to affect a repair, he said).
I've lost all faith in the courts/justice system now. 25 years of blemish-free service in the Army, the last 7 of them spent accounting for explosives/ammo for an EOD unit, and now, for the first time EVER, on the word of a spineless jellyfish and a useless County Court Judge my integrity has been called into question. Bastids.
Worse followed, when I was informed that the only route to appeal a decision in the County Court was on the basis of incorrect legal process, so I just had to "suck it up".
I thought our legal system was based on a system of innocent until proven guilty, not guilty of whatever random crime you're accused of until you can sufficiently prove you're not.tboxtbox (I was right first time).Right from the off, when I received the letter from Surrey Police, I asked them to look at my car, and offered to take it to them. I naïvely assumed that the Police would investigate and eliminate me from the enquiry, but they seemed content to do all their investigations from the comfort of their office chairs. All they ended up saying was that there was "insufficient evidence to proceed" with charges of "leaving the scene of..." and "failing to report..." but that one of their traffic cameras (ANPR?) proved that I was on the same road as the accident that morning. Something which I had already confirmed was the case.
Foolishly, neither I, nor my insurer, thought it necessary to get the car inspected, at least not until the court papers were served. Judge decided to ignore our engineer's report on the basis that 6 months had passed between the alleged collision and the report (plenty of time to affect a repair, he said).
I've lost all faith in the courts/justice system now. 25 years of blemish-free service in the Army, the last 7 of them spent accounting for explosives/ammo for an EOD unit, and now, for the first time EVER, on the word of a spineless jellyfish and a useless County Court Judge my integrity has been called into question. Bastids.
Worse followed, when I was informed that the only route to appeal a decision in the County Court was on the basis of incorrect legal process, so I just had to "suck it up".
9mm said:
Completely agree with that. Similar to bikers who round a bend at an insane speed and complain about people pulling out on them who would never pull out if they had to assume an oncoming vehicle travelling at far in excess of the speed limit.
Just bikers then, cars never go around bends too fast? This happened to me yesterday, a Discovery pulled out on me. He used the 'I'll look straight ahead and pretend you're not there' technique. I slowed enough to avoid hitting him but got close enough so that he knew it was a close call. I Didn't want to brake too hard as I had my daughter in the car. I as exited the roundabout, I heard a screeching of tyres, looking in my rear view mirror I noticed a learner had pulled in in front of Disco man, forcing him to come to a stand still within inches of a crash! Karma can be a beautiful thing!
Blakewater said:
I thought our legal system was based on a system of innocent until proven guilty, not guilty of whatever random crime you're accused of until you can sufficiently prove you're not.
Naïvely, I thought the same. Turns out that is the case in a criminal court, where you need strong evidence, and at least three magistrates to find a person guilty. Apparently not the case in a civil court, where one judge gets to decide a case "on the balance of probability", the evidence isn't as rigorously tested, and you get no right of appeal. It truly sucks. But I feel I've de-railed this thread quite enough for now.Back on topic...
Amazing scenes this morning at the roundabout near Frimley Park Hospital!
Approaching the roundabout and the far exit, as usual, wasn't clear, so I waited as one should, for the roundabout to clear before entering so as not to block it for traffic from left to right. I was astounded to find that every single other driver had remembered what the big "keep clear" boxes were there for, and traffic flowed nicely.
The reason for this new-found courtesy among my fellow drivers? Probably the Police car approaching from the left. Even he edged forward cautiously, half expecting some dork to push through and stop in the box blocking the flow of traffic. No doubt normal service will be resumed tonight
In defence of those who do block the roundabout, by stopping in the "keep clear" box, I have noticed that when you do wait, and traffic from your left is allowed to enter, lots of "me too, me first!" types will try to follow so close to one another that when your exit is clear it is impossible to move on because the traffic from the left is now blocking the box. Seems you can't win, whatever you do. I've even been abused by the potential 'blockers' when I've tooted the horn and moved off across the front of them.
FFS, just because I waited so as not to block the flow of traffic, doesn't mean that the "Give way to traffic already on the roundabout, and traffic approaching from the right" rule has been completely suspended
just down the road from me is the newly (sort of) designed sadlers farm roundabout. used to be one of those that was one huge one with lots of little ones round it. which sort of worked.
anyway as it sort of worked they changed it, removed all the little ones and now we have a huge one with a cut through for the in-breds on canvey island as they can't go all the way round obviously.
the best bit is the lane markings, useless to start and after having been altered 3 times are still useless with a added hint of stupid and a pinch of dangerous.
people regularly get in the left of 4 lanes and at the 9 position from above and want to go off right at the 3 position.
i will try and find a recent picture its priceless
anyway as it sort of worked they changed it, removed all the little ones and now we have a huge one with a cut through for the in-breds on canvey island as they can't go all the way round obviously.
the best bit is the lane markings, useless to start and after having been altered 3 times are still useless with a added hint of stupid and a pinch of dangerous.
people regularly get in the left of 4 lanes and at the 9 position from above and want to go off right at the 3 position.
i will try and find a recent picture its priceless
storminnorman said:
I've noticed recently people tending to dawdle on exit trajectory. It's like they go round at the normal speed but when they've reached the exit road they trundle across - which means that if you're accustomed to regular roundabout speed you expect to be pulling out behind them when in fact they're still crossing your path.
Not sure I explained that well but I was always taught to gun it when you're pointing at your exit on a roundabout.
Or the dawdle on entry ones - pull onto a roundabout and proceed at glacial speed. It can be a bit fraught if you are behind them..Not sure I explained that well but I was always taught to gun it when you're pointing at your exit on a roundabout.
Particularly at this one - the Keir Roundabout on the A9.
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=keir+roundabout&am...
Southbound traffic comes off the A9 dual carriageway at speed heading for the M9, and if you are entering from the right (A9 southbound)it can be fraught at the best of times...
Edited by matchmaker on Wednesday 22 May 12:48
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