Rape Gang - How'd they get away with it for so long?
Discussion
Mermaid said:
andymadmak said:
..On top of that we have the other ingredients such as the supply of vulnerable girls,
Good point. It seems most, if not all, victims are white. Would these gangs target a vulnerable Muslim/Sikh/Hindu/ girl?chrisw666 said:
Stuff...
....they use religion as a legal defence (or people use it as a stick) but they don't follow the teaching of their religion in their actions so as well as being cowardly they are hypocrites.
As much as we can attack the people who commit these crimes I think its time that the authorities who ignored the cries for help, the people who heard the girls stories but stopped caring when the girls were too afraid to keep telling the story should be held to account and those who probably brushed aside things as silly teenage crushes or rebellious kids with behavioural problems should be ashamed of themselves.
Trimmed your post to emphasise my point. ....they use religion as a legal defence (or people use it as a stick) but they don't follow the teaching of their religion in their actions so as well as being cowardly they are hypocrites.
As much as we can attack the people who commit these crimes I think its time that the authorities who ignored the cries for help, the people who heard the girls stories but stopped caring when the girls were too afraid to keep telling the story should be held to account and those who probably brushed aside things as silly teenage crushes or rebellious kids with behavioural problems should be ashamed of themselves.
Have any of them mentioned religion? I haven't seen (not having looked at every report) anything to suggest they have. Religion seems to be mentioned predominantly by people wanting to have a go at muslims.
And I agree utterly with your last paragraph. IMO the religion element of the debate is irrelevant. This was allowed to continue through apathy or whatever (I struggle with the idea the BiB were too PC, given the Met at least is famously described as (institutionally racist"...) and that is how it grew to this extent. There is something, presumably cultural, that allowed them to talk about it and therefore find like minded people but the single most important factor is that the warning signs were ignored.
I won't compare it to a cake, but another tight knit group with a reputation for pushing the boundaries of acceptable behaviour when it comes to treating drunk females: footballers. I'm not in anyway excusing what has gone on, or saying that making some initially consensual adult airtight is the same thing, but it does make me wonder what behaviour is being kept in control by the prospect of being caught.
Bill said:
..Have any of them mentioned religion? I haven't seen (not having looked at every report) anything to suggest they have. Religion seems to be mentioned predominantly by people wanting to have a go at muslims.
.
Too much PC?.
http://www.theweek.co.uk/politics/8707/muslims-bac...
Baroness Sayeeda Warsi, Britain's most senior Muslim politician, told the London Evening Standard that there are "Pakistani men who believe that white girls are fair game. And we have to be prepared to say that. You can only start solving a problem if you acknowledge it first."
Warsi said the color of the victims' skin, as well as their vulnerability, helped to make them a target. She also said that some Pakistani men "see women as second class citizens and white women probably as third class citizens" and that these men "are to be spoken out against."
Warsi called on British authorities to stop being squeamish about investigating allegations involving Muslims. "Cultural sensitivity should never be a bar to applying the law," she said.
According to Ann Cryer, a former Labour MP for the town of Keighley, who has campaigned to draw public attention to the issue of Muslim sex gangs, complaints to social workers and the police were ignored because they were "petrified of being called racist."
Cryer said: "This is an absolute scandal. They were petrified of being called racist and so reverted to the default of political correctness. They had a greater fear of being perceived in that light than in dealing with the issues in front of them."
Rather than acknowledge that there is a problem, Muslim groups in Britain have decided to play the victim card instead. They are also working overtime to try to silence public discussion about Muslim sex crimes in Britain by branding critics as "far right racists" and "Islamophobic."
Bill said:
There is something, presumably cultural, that allowed them to talk about it and therefore find like minded people but the single most important factor is that the warning signs were ignored.
I guess that come back to the fact that they don't think its wrong, their peers don't think its wrong and the culture they exist in means the only people who will know what is happening are others who won't condemn it or go to the authorities. I'm certain this kind of abuse isn't just committed by Pakistani Muslim men, but they are a group who are taught that women are beneath them. I suspect other groups are tightly knit and have few morals, immigrants from places where life is cheap who spot a way to get some kicks and earn a few £ probably do it, drug addicts or thugs on a power trip probably do it too. As long as your mates don't disapprove and you can scare or act with impunity towards those who might try to stop you then its cool to keep going. I've heard stories of groups of travellers treating teenage girls in a similar manner (albeit not sustained abuse) and of grown white men from lower social classes using their mates/relatives teenagers as a key to gain access to kids high on drink and drugs at house parties.
Mermaid said:
Good point. It seems most, if not all, victims are white. Would these gangs target a vulnerable Muslim/Sikh/Hindu/ girl?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/jun/21/ringleade...Edited by NISMOgtr on Friday 17th May 13:55
Edited by Justayellowbadge on Friday 17th May 13:58
Mermaid said:
Too much PC?
http://www.theweek.co.uk/politics/8707/muslims-bac...
Baroness Sayeeda Warsi, Britain's most senior Muslim politician, told the London Evening Standard that there are "Pakistani men who believe that white girls are fair game. And we have to be prepared to say that. You can only start solving a problem if you acknowledge it first."
Warsi said the color of the victims' skin, as well as their vulnerability, helped to make them a target. She also said that some Pakistani men "see women as second class citizens and white women probably as third class citizens" and that these men "are to be spoken out against."
Warsi called on British authorities to stop being squeamish about investigating allegations involving Muslims. "Cultural sensitivity should never be a bar to applying the law," she said.
According to Ann Cryer, a former Labour MP for the town of Keighley, who has campaigned to draw public attention to the issue of Muslim sex gangs, complaints to social workers and the police were ignored because they were "petrified of being called racist."
Cryer said: "This is an absolute scandal. They were petrified of being called racist and so reverted to the default of political correctness. They had a greater fear of being perceived in that light than in dealing with the issues in front of them."
Rather than acknowledge that there is a problem, Muslim groups in Britain have decided to play the victim card instead. They are also working overtime to try to silence public discussion about Muslim sex crimes in Britain by branding critics as "far right racists" and "Islamophobic."
Without meaning to sound like an apologist how do you go about solving this problem before girls have came forward and feel they can be believed and kept safe? Bearing in mind that a lot of the children who are victims already have no faith in the authorities and don't come from strong stable families. http://www.theweek.co.uk/politics/8707/muslims-bac...
Baroness Sayeeda Warsi, Britain's most senior Muslim politician, told the London Evening Standard that there are "Pakistani men who believe that white girls are fair game. And we have to be prepared to say that. You can only start solving a problem if you acknowledge it first."
Warsi said the color of the victims' skin, as well as their vulnerability, helped to make them a target. She also said that some Pakistani men "see women as second class citizens and white women probably as third class citizens" and that these men "are to be spoken out against."
Warsi called on British authorities to stop being squeamish about investigating allegations involving Muslims. "Cultural sensitivity should never be a bar to applying the law," she said.
According to Ann Cryer, a former Labour MP for the town of Keighley, who has campaigned to draw public attention to the issue of Muslim sex gangs, complaints to social workers and the police were ignored because they were "petrified of being called racist."
Cryer said: "This is an absolute scandal. They were petrified of being called racist and so reverted to the default of political correctness. They had a greater fear of being perceived in that light than in dealing with the issues in front of them."
Rather than acknowledge that there is a problem, Muslim groups in Britain have decided to play the victim card instead. They are also working overtime to try to silence public discussion about Muslim sex crimes in Britain by branding critics as "far right racists" and "Islamophobic."
Actually caring for these children properly means removing them far from the areas they were abused in, having people who can care for them in a way that a good parent would, and making them feel good enough about themselves that they can start to rebuild their life while their abusers are tackled. This costs money that authorities are probably unwilling to spend.
The abusers don't wear 'I f
k kids' Tshirts or have a club house and rounding up everyone who looks a bit brown clearly isn't going to work, the solution to the problem lies first with identifying and supporting the vicitms. Couple of radom points. Some of these guys seem so seriously sexually repressed, it doesn't come as much surprise to me this is what they get up to. I'd guess part of there problem come from the pressure of families and upbringing along with some rather odd culture aspects, doesn't make for a great mix in a country with a liberal attitude to sex in general.
While I can't I've met any of the gang members, they all seem slightly lost in a world where they would really like to do a ton of dirty sexual things and basically just live freely, but are not going to get that from the type of women they mix with or who their families are going to approve of. Like Robin Williams said in Good Morning Vietnam, they are in dire need of a blow job - Ideally from someone over 16 and consenting...
Anyone remeber the Muslim guy convicted of a bomb plot here I think it was recently, where he said he wouldn't have done it if he could get a girlfriend ? He made me think of these guys.
One of these Muslim self-appointed community leaders was on TV the other night talking about the deep sense of community and shame that Muslims feel in such things like drinking alcohol and how they would be looked down upon for such things. He was talking about that as if it was a good thing, I was thinking it is exactly that which is part of the problem and linked to the above.
You only have to look at what goes on in Pakistan with rape cases and acid attacks and the general attiutde to women to wonder why that is going to suddenly disappear with immigration to the UK, or even within 2nd or 3rd generation when so many of the negative aspects are not talked about and swept under the carpet.
While I can't I've met any of the gang members, they all seem slightly lost in a world where they would really like to do a ton of dirty sexual things and basically just live freely, but are not going to get that from the type of women they mix with or who their families are going to approve of. Like Robin Williams said in Good Morning Vietnam, they are in dire need of a blow job - Ideally from someone over 16 and consenting...
Anyone remeber the Muslim guy convicted of a bomb plot here I think it was recently, where he said he wouldn't have done it if he could get a girlfriend ? He made me think of these guys.
One of these Muslim self-appointed community leaders was on TV the other night talking about the deep sense of community and shame that Muslims feel in such things like drinking alcohol and how they would be looked down upon for such things. He was talking about that as if it was a good thing, I was thinking it is exactly that which is part of the problem and linked to the above.
You only have to look at what goes on in Pakistan with rape cases and acid attacks and the general attiutde to women to wonder why that is going to suddenly disappear with immigration to the UK, or even within 2nd or 3rd generation when so many of the negative aspects are not talked about and swept under the carpet.
Mermaid said:
Too much PC?
http://www.theweek.co.uk/politics/8707/muslims-bac...
Baroness Sayeeda Warsi, Britain's most senior Muslim politician, told the London Evening Standard that there are "Pakistani men who believe that white girls are fair game. And we have to be prepared to say that. You can only start solving a problem if you acknowledge it first."
Hoo-fhttp://www.theweek.co.uk/politics/8707/muslims-bac...
Baroness Sayeeda Warsi, Britain's most senior Muslim politician, told the London Evening Standard that there are "Pakistani men who believe that white girls are fair game. And we have to be prepared to say that. You can only start solving a problem if you acknowledge it first."
king-ray! Note however that the outrage agaiunst Jack Straw last week was led by Vaz, who is chairman of the committee investigating grooming. Hardly surprising then that one of his comittee members earlier this week managed to almost completely avoid any mention of inter-cultural conflict during a TV interview discussing the Oxford case.
Mermaid said:
Rather than acknowledge that there is a problem, Muslim groups in Britain have decided to play the victim card instead. They are also working overtime to try to silence public discussion about Muslim sex crimes in Britain by branding critics as "far right racists" and "Islamophobic."
Ears burning are they BSR?Mod note: Leave that crap out if you wish to stay in the thread.
Edited by Justayellowbadge on Friday 17th May 15:49
VictorMeldrew said:
Mermaid said:
Rather than acknowledge that there is a problem, Muslim groups in Britain have decided to play the victim card instead. They are also working overtime to try to silence public discussion about Muslim sex crimes in Britain by branding critics as "far right racists" and "Islamophobic."
Ears burning are they BSR?Mod note: Leave that crap out if you wish to stay in the thread.
I think they actually were.I think the sad thing is, when I take an objective look at the thread I've been as guilty as you at tarring everyone with the same brush. There are a lot of reasonable points on the subject and its just people like you two who make everyone else look so much worse. You two getting excited over that completely unsubstantiated and phobic statement is a perfect example of how threads like this bring out the worst in people like you as you take increasing confidence from each other's prejudice.
It's a shame all the valid points that are discussion worthy get lost amongst the irrelevant hyperbole and rhetoric like this
blindswelledrat said:
There are a lot of reasonable points on the subject and its just people like you two who make everyone else look so much worse. You two getting excited over that completely unsubstantiated and phobic statement is a perfect example of how threads like this bring out the worst in people like you as you take increasing confidence from each other's prejudice.
It's a shame all the valid points that are discussion worthy get lost amongst the irrelevant hyperbole and rhetoric like this
Unsubstantiated - how do you work that out? And which statement are you referring to? And there are many, many references to this issue.It's a shame all the valid points that are discussion worthy get lost amongst the irrelevant hyperbole and rhetoric like this
So what is the unvarnished truth according to you.
Mermaid said:
Unsubstantiated - how do you work that out? And which statement are you referring to?
I referred to these two -are they inaccurate?http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2141740/Ro...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2146410/A-...
blindswelledrat said:
It's a shame all the valid points that are discussion worthy get lost amongst the irrelevant hyperbole and rhetoric like this
Actually, I think you're wrong. There are a couple of posters on this thread who I probably misunderstood a little some pages back, but whose opinions I've come to respect - not that I necessarily completely agree with them, but I at least now get what they're saying and understand that they're looking for a solution rather than scapegoating.
Police are looking into around 54 grooming/rape gangs in England and Wales. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22617339
Not all being linked to race or religion, but 54 gangs means a lot of children being passed around and raped by an awful lot of men on a regular basis. That's only the gangs that are recognised, so the real figure could be much, much more.
This seems to be out of control, quite frankly!
Not all being linked to race or religion, but 54 gangs means a lot of children being passed around and raped by an awful lot of men on a regular basis. That's only the gangs that are recognised, so the real figure could be much, much more.
This seems to be out of control, quite frankly!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-he...
More -->
"A young girl was repeatedly raped and sexually abused by 10 friends over a five-year period, a court has heard...
The victim was just 11 when she was groomed and raped by Iblal Fiaz, 21, who plied her with alcohol and drugs, Oxford Crown Court was told. Iblal Fiaz and his brother Khasim Fiaz, 23, both of St Georges Close, High Wycombe, deny multiple rape charges.
<snip>
Despite bleeding, she was then raped by two other men, the prosecutor said, Mudassar Hussain, 19, and Jubroin Khan, 21.
Mr Hussain, of Abbey Barn Road, and Mr Khan, of Rutland Avenue, both in High Wycombe, deny rape.
The remaining defendants, who all deny rape and are also from High Wycombe, are: Ammar Rafiq, 19, of Castleview Gardens; Mohammed Adnan, 21, of Upper Green Road; Kasam Dad, 23, of Gibbs Road; Rameez Ali, 21, of West End Street; Janaid Sharif, 26, of Cambridge Crescent and Asif Hussain, 21, of Plummer.
More -->
"A young girl was repeatedly raped and sexually abused by 10 friends over a five-year period, a court has heard...
The victim was just 11 when she was groomed and raped by Iblal Fiaz, 21, who plied her with alcohol and drugs, Oxford Crown Court was told. Iblal Fiaz and his brother Khasim Fiaz, 23, both of St Georges Close, High Wycombe, deny multiple rape charges.
<snip>
Despite bleeding, she was then raped by two other men, the prosecutor said, Mudassar Hussain, 19, and Jubroin Khan, 21.
Mr Hussain, of Abbey Barn Road, and Mr Khan, of Rutland Avenue, both in High Wycombe, deny rape.
The remaining defendants, who all deny rape and are also from High Wycombe, are: Ammar Rafiq, 19, of Castleview Gardens; Mohammed Adnan, 21, of Upper Green Road; Kasam Dad, 23, of Gibbs Road; Rameez Ali, 21, of West End Street; Janaid Sharif, 26, of Cambridge Crescent and Asif Hussain, 21, of Plummer.
odyssey2200 said:
But it's not a religious, cultural or race problem.
An apologist will pop across from the Woolwich thread in a moment to tell us all about it.
And the Antis, like yourself, will repeatedly ignore the point that the 99.9% of muslims who do not gang rape are not to blame for the .0005% who do.An apologist will pop across from the Woolwich thread in a moment to tell us all about it.
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