Woolwich

[Norfolkit]

Tartan Pixie said:

MX7 said:

Norfolkit said:

Whoa, hang on.
Giblet has given us his view as a young Muslim guy growing up in the UK, why shouldn't we believe him. This is an internet forum, we could all be talking bks, why question his honesty, why not question mine, or yours for that matter?

+1

+2

(Unless of course I'm lying about liking Norfolkit's post because I'm one of those untrustworthy Scotsmen. We've alway's got to lie to the English y'see, I know cos I saw William Wallace do it in brave heart.)

My mother in law is Scottish, you've got all sorts of apologising to do

[MX7]

supersingle said:

Muslims are permitted to lie to protect and promote Islam, it's a tool known as taqiyya. He may very well be telling the truth or he may not. I'd like to believe him but who knows?

I doubt that we'd make much progress if everyone had the same attitude as you.

Is every Muslim that has denounced these attacks lying too?


P.S. Giblet, please ignore him. There's no need to defend yourself from stupid accusations.

[Colonial]

supersingle said:

Muslims are permitted to lie to protect and promote Islam, it's a tool known as taqiyya. He may very well be telling the truth or he may not. I'd like to believe him but who knows?

Why say something so idiotic and inflammatory unless you are trying to score a reaction to make some cheap point?

[Norfolkit]

MX7 said:

supersingle said:

Muslims are permitted to lie to protect and promote Islam, it's a tool known as taqiyya. He may very well be telling the truth or he may not. I'd like to believe him but who knows?

I doubt that we'd make much progress if everyone had the same attitude as you.

Is every Muslim that has denounced these attacks lying too?


P.S. Giblet, please ignore him. There's no need to defend yourself from stupid accusations.

+ A lot

[supersingle]

All I've asked Giblet is why we should believe him. I haven't accused him of lying. He is free to come back and expand on his post. A good start for all Muslims would be for them to condemn jihad (holy war). Many Muslims condemn terrorism but support jihad. The catch is that much of what we consider terrorism a muslim will consider jihad.

So Giblet, will you condemn jihad?

[MX7]

fking hell. Does your name relate to your IQ?

[supersingle]

Wouldn't you agree that it would be beneficial for Muslims to reject jihad?

[Norfolkit]

supersingle said:

All I've asked Giblet is why we should believe him. I haven't accused him of lying. He is free to come back and expand on his post. A good start for all Muslims would be for them to condemn jihad (holy war). Many Muslims condemn terrorism but support jihad. The catch is that much of what we consider terrorism a muslim will consider jihad.

So Giblet, will you condemn jihad?

So why not ask me if you can believe me (or anyone else on this forum)?
I could be a five star nutter, why single out Giblet?

[Colonial]

supersingle said:

All I've asked Giblet is why we should believe him. I haven't accused him of lying. He is free to come back and expand on his post. A good start for all Muslims would be for them to condemn jihad (holy war). Many Muslims condemn terrorism but support jihad. The catch is that much of what we consider terrorism a muslim will consider jihad.

So Giblet, will you condemn jihad?

You have implied he is lying.

When he says he is against Jihad you will just accuse him of lying again.

So what is the point of even entering into dialogue with ideologues such as yourself?

[supersingle]

Norfolkit said:

So why not ask me if you can believe me (or anyone else on this forum)?
I could be a five star nutter, why single out Giblet?

We hear lots of pacifying noises in the media coming from muslim leaders. Unfortunately, much of this talk isn't followed up by actions. Whether you like it or not all sorts of frankly barbaric things happen in the name of Islam in this country, from female genital mutilation to forced marriage, from terrorism bombings to honour killings.

Taqiyya is a reality, look it up. If Muslims want to live here I don't think it's asking too much for them to relinquish some of their more barbaric practices.

[supersingle]

Colonial said:

You have implied he is lying.

When he says he is against Jihad you will just accuse him of lying again.

So what is the point of even entering into dialogue with ideologues such as yourself?

I'm no ideologue, I've just educated myself about Islam.

For an observant muslim to reject and condemn jihad is quite a big deal. If what Giblet is saying is true and subsequent generations of Muslims are drifting away from Islam then there is some hope for the future. I'd like to hear more muslims condemning the more unsavoury parts of their faith rather than simply parroting the (untrue) platitudes about Islam being the religion or peace...

[carinaman]

I don't think Giblet has to asnwer to us.

Not all Muslims are the same just as all PHers aren't the same and all police officers aren't the same. I for one don't think all Christians want to sexually tamper with minors.

It's like assuming all RoSPA members are like me.

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://uploa...

[Colonial]

supersingle said:

I'm no ideologue, I've just educated myself about Islam.

For an observant muslim to reject and condemn jihad is quite a big deal. If what Giblet is saying is true and subsequent generations of Muslims are drifting away from Islam then there is some hope for the future. I'd like to hear more muslims condemning the more unsavoury parts of their faith rather than simply parroting the (untrue) platitudes about Islam being the religion or peace...

Or you've indoctrinated yourself with the fanatical teachings of groups like the EDL.

Self radicalisation FTW!

[Colonial]

carinaman said:

I don't think Giblet has to asnwer to us.

Not all Muslims are the same just as all PHers aren't the same and all police officers aren't the same. I for one don't think all Christians want to sexually tamper with minors.

It's like assuming all RoSPA members are like me.

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://uploa...

Exactly.

[supersingle]

Colonial said:

Or you've indoctrinated yourself with the fanatical teachings of groups like the EDL.

Self radicalisation FTW!

Pathetic response.

Go and educate yourself about Islam.

[daveydave7]

You seem quite obsessed with the EDL ?

[RedTrident]

supersingle said:

Norfolkit said:

Whoa, hang on.
Giblet has given us his view as a young Muslim guy growing up in the UK, why shouldn't we believe him. This is an internet forum, we could all be talking bks, why question his honesty, why not question mine, or yours for that matter?

Muslims are permitted to lie to protect and promote Islam, it's a tool known as taqiyya. He may very well be telling the truth or he may not. I'd like to believe him but who knows?

I'm a second generation UK Muslim. Have a wide circle of Muslim and non Muslim friends. Not one of us are criminals, child rapists, wife beaters, covertly trying to make the UK Muslim by having a dozen babies or most importantly jihadists in any form.

As for taqiyya. I'd hazard a guess most of us aren't that technically understanding of the faith or that way inclined to lie to protect an interpretation of our faith that we don't even agree with.

The guys who did this and no doubt others like them do not speak for me or act on my behalf. I am not personally responsible for their actions and if I ever came across anyone I was worried about who I thought might be wanting to harm someone else my immediate and first call would be to the police. Every Muslim I know thinks this way. But for some others who perhaps think UK Muslims are one community with a greater insight into each others lives than any other community, who are fearful of what they are seeing and those that have an agenda to peddle then that is not nor ever will be enough. What more is it that some people want UK Muslims, like myself, to do?

I was only in Rochdale last month. I'm sure when the young lad has his funeral and there is a memorial service of some sort I like many other Muslims and non Muslims, indeed ordinary everyday folk, will turn out to pay our respects.

Now you can take your taqiyya bks and shove it. A poor lad, local to where I live and work has been brutally murdered. I am outraged at what has taken place. This is not some false claim to protect anything.

I'm pleased that in between some pretty hard to take points of view that there are good people on pistonheads who see this for what it is, a terrible crime, for which I and others like me had no power to stop, were not aware of, will never agree with and have no more responsibility of anymore than any other British citizen.

[Johnny]

VinceFox said:

Symbolica said:

SmoothCriminal said:

Apologies if this has been posted before moment the ARV arrives at the scene.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=84c_1369344545

Fair play, those first two shots are excellent considering how fast he's moving.

Cracking. Very well done.

Yes. Most enjoyable that. In fact, it seemed to get better each time I watched it.

[Taff107]

Just a shame the ARV showed so much restraint.

[PRTVR]

RedTrident said:

I'm pleased that in between some pretty hard to take points of view that there are good people on pistonheads who see this for what it is, a terrible crime, for which I and others like me had no power to stop, were not aware of, will never agree with and have no more responsibility of anymore than any other British citizen.

But if we just treat it as just another crime are we not ignoring the motive, and so perhaps leading to more problems? The details we know are that they were Muslims and had a twisted view of the religion,
but we can't get away from the fact that they thought they were acting in the name of the religion,
its a sad fact of life that some of the terrorism happening in the world has a Muslim tag attached to it,

I do feel your pain, it must feel like you are being persecuted over things you have no control over, when you just want to get on with your life