Most undeservedly unlucky racing driver
Discussion
Phillippe Massa
Not withstanding the fact that he survived a spring in the head at 150mph...good luck I'd say
World champion for 1 corner and about 10 secs!
Robbed by Lewis who passed Glock who suddenly decided to give up at the penultimate corner
Massa could do no more! I really felt for him
Not withstanding the fact that he survived a spring in the head at 150mph...good luck I'd say
World champion for 1 corner and about 10 secs!
Robbed by Lewis who passed Glock who suddenly decided to give up at the penultimate corner
Massa could do no more! I really felt for him
Edited by Guillotine on Friday 14th June 13:43
onyx39 said:
Muzzer79 said:
Really?
Recent (to me) revelations about what he was like to work with have clouded his image a little for me.
Do tell.Recent (to me) revelations about what he was like to work with have clouded his image a little for me.
However, a lot of people have come out recently and openly said how much of a s
t he was to work with. I'm talking Mario Andretti (who called him the worst team-mate he ever had) Gerhard Berger, various mechanics, Patrick Head, etc.It seems like he thought that the way to finally win the title was to be incredibly self-centred and centre the entire team around yourself, like his peers, Prost and Senna. Some might argue that's the right way to be but it seems a bit hypocritical to complain about that so much during his driving career but actually be like that yourself.
Guillotine said:
Phillippe Massa
Not withstanding the fact that he survived a spring in the head at 150mph...good luck I'd say
World champion for 1 corner and about 10 secs!
Robbed by Lewis who passed Glock who suddenly decided to give up at the penultimate corner
Massa could do no more! I really felt for him
massa as a world champion would have been undeserving. thats one occasion. id say the spirit of the thread is someone who has lost out on more than one occasionNot withstanding the fact that he survived a spring in the head at 150mph...good luck I'd say
World champion for 1 corner and about 10 secs!
Robbed by Lewis who passed Glock who suddenly decided to give up at the penultimate corner
Massa could do no more! I really felt for him
Edited by Guillotine on Friday 14th June 13:43
Muzzer79 said:
Mansell was always portrayed as the hard-done-by Brit who fought to the last, but was screwed by Williams, screwed by Prost, screwed by Lotus, screwed by everyone.
However, a lot of people have come out recently and openly said how much of a st he was to work with. I'm talking Mario Andretti (who called him the worst team-mate he ever had) Gerhard Berger, various mechanics, Patrick Head, etc.
It seems like he thought that the way to finally win the title was to be incredibly self-centred and centre the entire team around yourself, like his peers, Prost and Senna. Some might argue that's the right way to be but it seems a bit hypocritical to complain about that so much during his driving career but actually be like that yourself.
Mansell is a hero of mine and agree with your points but is it any wonder he became even more of a self centered so and so considering some of the s**t he had to put with.However, a lot of people have come out recently and openly said how much of a s
t he was to work with. I'm talking Mario Andretti (who called him the worst team-mate he ever had) Gerhard Berger, various mechanics, Patrick Head, etc.It seems like he thought that the way to finally win the title was to be incredibly self-centred and centre the entire team around yourself, like his peers, Prost and Senna. Some might argue that's the right way to be but it seems a bit hypocritical to complain about that so much during his driving career but actually be like that yourself.
Prost was political and so was Piquet who demanded number one status - at one point going to Frank Williams lying in a hospital bed and paralysed: "you made me number one driver, do you remember?"
As for Mario he would not have been champion if he hadn't had the balls to take on Graham Chapman.
Berger played mind games with Alesi.
You have to stand up and be counted and be self centred once in a while even ruthless to succeed.
For me Brundle is right up there - a strong contender for best F1 driver never to have won a race. Always in the wrong car at the wrong time. Waited a career to get into a team like McLaren and they gave him one of the worst cars (in terms of competitiveness) that they ever produced. Still dragged it onto the podium at Monaco though. I reckon he would have more LeMans titles but not for car defects too.
freedman said:
entropy said:
As for Mario he would not have been champion if he hadn't had the balls to take on Graham Chapman.
.
mollytherocker said:
stephen300o said:
mollytherocker said:
You believe in fate and luck?
How quaint.
Your atheism is out of control.How quaint.
As opposed to the will of the Gods...
Muzzer79 said:
Really?
I count two - '92 obviously, but only '86 as the other. He was unlucky with that tyre blowout and the fact that he held it together so they didn't stop the race. With a red flag, he'd have been World Champion.
But I can't think of other years he was unlucky and should have won. '85 he was learning, '87 he binned it in Qualifying in Japan, '88 the Williams was hopeless, '89 & '90 Ferraris were either not reliable or fast enough, '91 Williams was too unreliable and he went off in a strop in '93.
He was my racing hero as a kid. It was always hard-done-by Nige and he was spectacular to watch. Recent (to me) revelations about what he was like to work with have clouded his image a little for me.
For 87, had he been champion in 86, he would have had the confidence to build momentum. He was often the fastest in 87 but had some terrible luck and as a result ended up psyching himself out of it. Confidence is an unbelievably powerful factor.I count two - '92 obviously, but only '86 as the other. He was unlucky with that tyre blowout and the fact that he held it together so they didn't stop the race. With a red flag, he'd have been World Champion.
But I can't think of other years he was unlucky and should have won. '85 he was learning, '87 he binned it in Qualifying in Japan, '88 the Williams was hopeless, '89 & '90 Ferraris were either not reliable or fast enough, '91 Williams was too unreliable and he went off in a strop in '93.
He was my racing hero as a kid. It was always hard-done-by Nige and he was spectacular to watch. Recent (to me) revelations about what he was like to work with have clouded his image a little for me.
Muzzer79 said:
Mansell was always portrayed as the hard-done-by Brit who fought to the last, but was screwed by Williams, screwed by Prost, screwed by Lotus, screwed by everyone.
However, a lot of people have come out recently and openly said how much of a st he was to work with. I'm talking Mario Andretti (who called him the worst team-mate he ever had) Gerhard Berger, various mechanics, Patrick Head, etc.
It seems like he thought that the way to finally win the title was to be incredibly self-centred and centre the entire team around yourself, like his peers, Prost and Senna. Some might argue that's the right way to be but it seems a bit hypocritical to complain about that so much during his driving career but actually be like that yourself.
We are talking about how unlucky he was, not whether he was easy to work with. He is an easy target to have a pop at because he wears his heart on his sleave and with his brummie accent. Piquet was very good at making jokes at others expense but didnt like it when he got similar treatment from others. Schumacher had his character flaw of believing so much in his own dominance that he would drive people off the road if he wasnt able to win fairly. Senna blocked anyone joining his team who may have threatened his total focus etc etc. The American drivers came up through a totally different school. Andretti in particular got his reward for keeping lotus focussed until he gothis hands on a vastly superior car. His honourable team mate was probably faster but knew that he had given ghis word to support Mario and was as good as his word. Indirectly he lost his life because of it.However, a lot of people have come out recently and openly said how much of a s
t he was to work with. I'm talking Mario Andretti (who called him the worst team-mate he ever had) Gerhard Berger, various mechanics, Patrick Head, etc.It seems like he thought that the way to finally win the title was to be incredibly self-centred and centre the entire team around yourself, like his peers, Prost and Senna. Some might argue that's the right way to be but it seems a bit hypocritical to complain about that so much during his driving career but actually be like that yourself.
I'd say Jean Alesi
If he'd left Tyrrell for Williams (as planned), he'd have had Mansell's seat for 91 and 92, and Prost wouldn't have joined to become '93 champion either. Could Alesi have been 92, 93, 95, 96 or 97 champion in a Williams? (It all depended on whether Senna had joined Williams and lived, but it's an interesting thought...)
I don't think Alesi was a Senna, but he was at least as talented as Hill, Coulthard or Villeneuve who won a lot of races in 90s Williams.
I also think the discipline of Williams would have created a more rounded talent than the one we saw at Ferrari and Benetton.
There were several more races in 1994/5 that Alesi could have won in the Ferrari, but he ended up with some very unlucky retirements......such as being hit by his team-mates camera at Monza!
If he'd left Tyrrell for Williams (as planned), he'd have had Mansell's seat for 91 and 92, and Prost wouldn't have joined to become '93 champion either. Could Alesi have been 92, 93, 95, 96 or 97 champion in a Williams? (It all depended on whether Senna had joined Williams and lived, but it's an interesting thought...)
I don't think Alesi was a Senna, but he was at least as talented as Hill, Coulthard or Villeneuve who won a lot of races in 90s Williams.
I also think the discipline of Williams would have created a more rounded talent than the one we saw at Ferrari and Benetton.
There were several more races in 1994/5 that Alesi could have won in the Ferrari, but he ended up with some very unlucky retirements......such as being hit by his team-mates camera at Monza!
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