641bhp Alfa Coupe/2-door Giulia with ERS Hybrid

[theplayingmantis]

Ares said:

theplayingmantis said:

guilty as charged... its playground. no offense meant, its ironic in its usage of the term gay. its an American meme that is widely used and is ironic in its negative connotations...no one in reality finds it offensive or homophobic as its gone way beyond that, (which it may have originally been meant in the origins of the term) i dont know, but given no one considers it such, its irrelevant.

anyway that little offended for offenses sake/on others behalf over with (good job i didnt criticise the QV...!), lets get back on topic; its fake, typical auto car mock up been done before by them. there's nothing in the pipeline bar the potential corsa edition that ecain reported, although my inquiries on that have hit a wall. given the terrible sales of the existing models and stelvio it doesn't seem logical there going to offer a coupe when its not a big seller.

Fair enough...there is a whole world of americanisms that are best avoided

As for "terrible sales of existing models".... Alfa's sales were up 62% in 2017? And that's before the Stelvio started real sales, and less than a full year of Giulia sales?

Last week Alfa were criticised for not having a new model to take to Geneva, now they would be illogical to launch a coupe version of their prime saloon?

but they havent got one for geneva! Feb sales figures are poor for the Giulia, again. Sadly.

I cant see it being logical for a coupe being next step as; this is pure TPM opinion/maths (nearly on yipper levels of BS but not quite there yet), coupes in that segment are not big sellers are they? surely that's an even niche'r market than 4 door saloon is? if there are any derivation of the giulia as next step it would be a hotter Quad possibly on a limited (not not too limited run).

the next actual bodyshape change (im considering a coupe as a body shape change rightly or wrongly) on the giorgio platform would be the bigger SUV. i thought that they had confirmed that would be next then the 5 series equivalent.

edit, sales figures may be up, but from a small base isnt it?. dont wanna derail thread on sales figures but in teal terms sales have not been at the level expected or hoped for by marchionne?

Edited by theplayingmantis on Monday 5th March 19:02

[kambites]

The four series seems to sell well enough.

[Ares]

theplayingmantis said:

Ares said:

theplayingmantis said:

guilty as charged... its playground. no offense meant, its ironic in its usage of the term gay. its an American meme that is widely used and is ironic in its negative connotations...no one in reality finds it offensive or homophobic as its gone way beyond that, (which it may have originally been meant in the origins of the term) i dont know, but given no one considers it such, its irrelevant.

anyway that little offended for offenses sake/on others behalf over with (good job i didnt criticise the QV...!), lets get back on topic; its fake, typical auto car mock up been done before by them. there's nothing in the pipeline bar the potential corsa edition that ecain reported, although my inquiries on that have hit a wall. given the terrible sales of the existing models and stelvio it doesn't seem logical there going to offer a coupe when its not a big seller.

Fair enough...there is a whole world of americanisms that are best avoided

As for "terrible sales of existing models".... Alfa's sales were up 62% in 2017? And that's before the Stelvio started real sales, and less than a full year of Giulia sales?

Last week Alfa were criticised for not having a new model to take to Geneva, now they would be illogical to launch a coupe version of their prime saloon?

but they havent got one for geneva! Feb sales figures are poor for the Giulia, again. Sadly.

I cant see it being logical for a coupe being next step as; this is pure TPM opinion/maths (nearly on yipper levels of BS but not quite there yet), coupes in that segment are not big sellers are they? surely that's an even niche'r market than 4 door saloon is? if there are any derivation of the giulia as next step it would be a hotter Quad possibly on a limited (not not too limited run).

the next actual bodyshape change (im considering a coupe as a body shape change rightly or wrongly) on the giorgio platform would be the bigger SUV. i thought that they had confirmed that would be next then the 5 series equivalent.

edit, sales figures may be up, but from a small base isnt it?. dont wanna derail thread on sales figures but in teal terms sales have not been at the level expected or hoped for by marchionne?

Edited by theplayingmantis on Monday 5th March 19:02

Yes(?)....hence the criticism(?) Ahead of the criticism to look at a coupe version of the Giulia(?)

I would see a coupe as being logical. Easy to engineer (just different body panel on the Giulia Saloon), identical architecture underneath? What's the BS? Or problem? Take the 4-series to the 3-series, the 4 series sells approx 50% of the 3-series. So it's hardly an insignificant segment.

As for 'even niche'r than 4-door saloon. Is a 4-door saloon not the staple of every mass manufacturer? I hardly call a small saloon a niche model(?).

There may well be a hotter version of the Giulia but that would be a) even more niche that a coupe, b) not really needed - the Giulia QV is already the hottest small sports saloon available.

As for sales figures, as I said, 62% increase in a year, what other manufacturer has achieved more. What would you class as being good? And what did Marchionne expect for 2017? Especially without a full 12 months of ether of their main models? Alfa comments seems to be happy with 62% growth?

Your post seems to be riddled with negativity and belittling a brand that is bringing hot performance cars to the fray in a market threatening their extinction?

[kambites]

Ares said:

As for sales figures, as I said, 62% increase in a year, what other manufacturer has achieved more.

MG.

But yes, Alfa appear to be heading in the right direction and new bodys on existing platforms with (mostly) existing drivetrains is a good way to expand the range for minimal cost. I'd imagine we'll see a convertible at some point too. Lets be honest here it might be the 600+bhp range topper which grabs the headlines and hearts but the important car for Alfa is the sporty-looking but sub 100g/km rep-mobile version.

I wonder if Alfa are going to stick with diesel for their mainstream models or go hybrid for the whole range?

[Ares]

kambites said:

Ares said:

As for sales figures, as I said, 62% increase in a year, what other manufacturer has achieved more.

MG.

But yes, Alfa appear to be heading in the right direction and new bodys on existing platforms with (mostly) existing drivetrains is a good way to expand the range for minimal cost. I'd imagine we'll see a convertible at some point too. Lets be honest here it might be the 600+bhp range topper which grabs the headlines and hearts but the important car for Alfa is the sporty-looking but sub 100g/km rep-mobile version.

I wonder if Alfa are going to stick with diesel for their mainstream models or go hybrid for the whole range?

Exactly. Halo models inspire the volume sell. We should applaud a volume rep-mobile player that brings driving focus to it's core (with RWD)....and sticks a nutter 500bhp+ version at the top of it's range...and then takes about a hotter version

On hybrid, I doubt it, yet. The KERS system mooted for the coupe is a LaFerrari approach (ie. purely to aid performance), rather than the mainstream hybrid approach to allow zero-emission running. I suspect they will just increase the petrol capability. Italian aren't known for an obsession over mpg (or km/l). But in future, who knows, CO2 targets are pan-European (if Italy stays in the EU after yesterday......)

[anonymous-user]

Ares said:

Exactly. Halo models inspire the volume sell. We should applaud a volume rep-mobile player that brings driving focus to it's core (with RWD)....and sticks a nutter 500bhp+ version at the top of it's range...and then takes about a hotter version

Lots of people are applauding..

The Alfa renaissance driven by Sergio and the excellent Giulia has been, rightly, lauded by many.

Pointing out that Alfa may have other priorities isn’t negative is it ? I would say it is pragmatic.

Still as I said earlier if they build one of these I will buy it. I just think there is less chance of it appearing than you do.

[Ares]

Brooking10 said:

Pointing out that Alfa may have other priorities isn’t negative is it ? I would say it is pragmatic.

No, not at all.

But repeatedly saying sales have been poor and disappointing, disbelief on new models and criticising a brand for not having a new (enough) car at a motor show, then criticising it for the potential of looking at niche (more niche than their 'niche' 4-door saloon) is...

As I said, in a world of ever more dulling saloon cars, moving away from driving pleasure, PH should be applauding a manufacturer releasing a car with the driver at the core.

[theplayingmantis]

Re the BS I meant my/TPM maths. As you have pointed out the 4 series does well so my thoughts were indeed BS!

However re the 4 door saloon I’m fairly certain that there are plenty of reports that it’s a dieing albeit maybe slowly breed. That Alfa are banking on the Stelvio as the world wants SUVs not 4 door saloons, rather then a the Giulia would tend to support that. Haven’t the time or inclination to back this up with figures but I’m confident in this one especially on the private buyer side. Yes there is a repmobile demand in this country at least but again the Gilliam doesn’t seem to have made any dent in fleet markets yet.

Hence me considering it a niche now

Sales figures are up from a low base but as even the guy in control is disappointed I don’t think it’s negative of me to say they are not doing well as expected, is it?

Likewise lack of attention at Geneva isn’t going to be remedied by a new paint colour. Sorry it isn’t. If there’s nothing new to show there’s nothing new to show so be it, but to pretend the N ring editions are anything other than doing something for the sake of it is silly.

Anyway who cares I’m a happy owner, but just don’t think they will bring a coupe to market any time soon. The reason I said about a hotter QV is because seemingly reliable people have been given info that it could be being worked on. The coupe belief is simply from Autocar renders that they have recycled from times before and have previous in this regard.

[Ares]

theplayingmantis said:

Re the BS I meant my/TPM maths. As you have pointed out the 4 series does well so my thoughts were indeed BS!

However re the 4 door saloon I’m fairly certain that there are plenty of reports that it’s a dieing albeit maybe slowly breed. That Alfa are banking on the Stelvio as the world wants SUVs not 4 door saloons, rather then a the Giulia would tend to support that. Haven’t the time or inclination to back this up with figures but I’m confident in this one especially on the private buyer side. Yes there is a repmobile demand in this country at least but again the Gilliam doesn’t seem to have made any dent in fleet markets yet.

Hence me considering it a niche now

Sales figures are up from a low base but as even the guy in control is disappointed I don’t think it’s negative of me to say they are not doing well as expected, is it?

Likewise lack of attention at Geneva isn’t going to be remedied by a new paint colour. Sorry it isn’t. If there’s nothing new to show there’s nothing new to show so be it, but to pretend the N ring editions are anything other than doing something for the sake of it is silly.

Anyway who cares I’m a happy owner, but just don’t think they will bring a coupe to market any time soon. The reason I said about a hotter QV is because seemingly reliable people have been given info that it could be being worked on. The coupe belief is simply from Autocar renders that they have recycled from times before and have previous in this regard.

Giulia dying? What reports? January 2018 was the 3rd highest registration month for the model (Nov & June 2017 being the better) and that's despite the December production shut down due to the brake improvements? They are never going to rival the 3-series/A4/C-Classs, but that was never the intention. And you've still not shown where Sergio Marchionne was underwhelmed/expected more from AR sales than a 62% increase?

And Medium 4-door saloon sales (I.e. 3-series size) across Europe have held steady at around 5% since 2010 - small SUV/crossovers being the largest segment at 9.3%, Mid-Sized SUV/Crossover next at 7%. Saloons are still far from a niche.

And how is the NRING edition any different from the similar offerings from BMW/Merc? Struggling to see a single reason why they shouldn't offer them?

[anonymous-user]

I read that as the 4-door saloon segment dying...

And that coupe.. those wheels. I need another Alfa in my life.

[Ares]

OpulentBob said:

I read that as the 4-door saloon segment dying...

And that coupe.. those wheels. I need another Alfa in my life.

Could be, but the stats show that it's holding fairly steady despite huge gains in the last 10yrs in the SUV segment....surely a reason why everyone on PH should be more supportive of RWD saloons

[theplayingmantis]

Ares said:

OpulentBob said:

I read that as the 4-door saloon segment dying...

And that coupe.. those wheels. I need another Alfa in my life.

Could be, but the stats show that it's holding fairly steady despite huge gains in the last 10yrs in the SUV segment....surely a reason why everyone on PH should be more supportive of RWD saloons

yes i meant the segment is receding. not giulia. re marchionne:

http://europe.autonews.com/article/20180126/ANE/18...

also came across a Forbes article which is truly gloomy.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilwinton/2018/03/01...

im supporting them, i bought one ffs! we can still subject them to rigorous peer review surely!

this is like a PG convo! im retreating to the arsenal thread.

[Ares]

theplayingmantis said:

Ares said:

OpulentBob said:

I read that as the 4-door saloon segment dying...

And that coupe.. those wheels. I need another Alfa in my life.

Could be, but the stats show that it's holding fairly steady despite huge gains in the last 10yrs in the SUV segment....surely a reason why everyone on PH should be more supportive of RWD saloons

yes i meant the segment is receding. not giulia. re marchionne:

http://europe.autonews.com/article/20180126/ANE/18...

also came across a Forbes article which is truly gloomy.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilwinton/2018/03/01...

im supporting them, i bought one ffs! we can still subject them to rigorous peer review surely!

this is like a PG convo! im retreating to the arsenal thread.

Profit figures, and sales 'finger in the air' objective from 4 years ago. I can't see he would be anything other than happy with a 62% annual increase, especially with his prime models not contributing a full year.

[Quickmoose]

kambites said:

Krikkit said:

Comparing the two, the bonnet line on the concept was far too low to pass the crash test legislation at the time, the interior changes were down to making it a 2+2 rather than 2-only.

I wasn't saying there wasn't a goof reason for it, just that to my eyes it went from a fabulous looking GT car to an ugly hatchback thing.

There's no real disagreement here...
The concept visuals made it through to production as best as they could at the time with all the cost and legislation hoops to jump through.
The results were satisfactory only from certain angles, the profile NOT being one of them.
All you had to do was lower it, and make sure if you saw one to make sure either you or it was moving, to avoid the stationary profile sadness.....

You can be disappointed about that..... but it won design awards nonetheless....

[anonymous-user]

Ares said:

Profit figures, and sales 'finger in the air' objective from 4 years ago. I can't see he would be anything other than happy with a 62% annual increase, especially with his prime models not contributing a full year.

All depends on what the budget was !

As lovely as it is I can’t see this rumoured coupe moving the sales dial that much hence I would be surprised if it is a priority.

[Quickmoose]

Brooking10 said:

Ares said:

Profit figures, and sales 'finger in the air' objective from 4 years ago. I can't see he would be anything other than happy with a 62% annual increase, especially with his prime models not contributing a full year.

All depends on what the budget was !

As lovely as it is I can’t see this rumoured coupe moving the sales dial that much hence I would be surprised if it is a priority.

Sad but true. To be seen as a player, a real alternative perhaps they'll need to though....do it anyway, with a Sports Tourer as well....

[Ares]

Brooking10 said:

Ares said:

Profit figures, and sales 'finger in the air' objective from 4 years ago. I can't see he would be anything other than happy with a 62% annual increase, especially with his prime models not contributing a full year.

All depends on what the budget was !

As lovely as it is I can’t see this rumoured coupe moving the sales dial that much hence I would be surprised if it is a priority.

If, as reported, it's going to mirror the Saloon engine line-up, then it would be reasonable to except it to mirror the 3/4 series volumes - i.e., to increase the saloon sales by c50%, and all for marginal engineering costs.

But I don't think Alfa's focus is pure volume - hence their NRING and Corsa versions. Volume will come from the SUV offering(s), I suspect.

[theplayingmantis]

Ares said:

Brooking10 said:

Ares said:

Profit figures, and sales 'finger in the air' objective from 4 years ago. I can't see he would be anything other than happy with a 62% annual increase, especially with his prime models not contributing a full year.

All depends on what the budget was !

As lovely as it is I can’t see this rumoured coupe moving the sales dial that much hence I would be surprised if it is a priority.

If, as reported, it's going to mirror the Saloon engine line-up, then it would be reasonable to except it to mirror the 3/4 series volumes - i.e., to increase the saloon sales by c50%, and all for marginal engineering costs.

But I don't think Alfa's focus is pure volume - hence their NRING and Corsa versions. Volume will come from the SUV offering(s), I suspect.

shames its same old fake autocar rendering though.

https://www.carwow.co.uk/news/alfa-romeo-giulia-co...

https://www.topspeed.com/cars/alfa-romeo/2019-alfa...

[anonymous-user]

Volume won't come in the UK until Alfa has more than a sparse, ramshackle dealer network and, equally, earns a reputation for being a quality product. Neither are overnighters (nor a negative on the current product).

[Ares]

janesmith1950 said:

Volume won't come in the UK until Alfa has more than a sparse, ramshackle dealer network and, equally, earns a reputation for being a quality product. Neither are overnighters (nor a negative on the current product).

That is, without question, the biggest achilles heel. The dealer network is sparse, and (mostly), crap.

Biggest hindrance to greater growth.