New Defender fares poorly offroad
Discussion
xcentric said:
croyde said:
I'd take a Bronco with the wheel on the wrong side and at the US price.
Seen one or two for sale over here at eye watering prices.
Self import? Will have to add duties (not sure but maybe 5%) and VAT at 20% - so maybe the US$ price directly converted to £. Plus shipping (£2k or so) and any DVLA checks. Doable. Or you build get an agent to do it for you? Would expect it not to be prohibitive.....Seen one or two for sale over here at eye watering prices.
There was I thinking it was a $32k car.
Funny really as one always presumes things are so much cheaper in the US. I paid £33k for my Mustang GT back in 2016, then that Summer I spent time in LA. I was at a Ford dealer and a similar spec to my GT was around $53k.
Sure the Mustang was available in a much lower spec for a lot less in the US but the UK basically got the top spec model only.
6 years later and the GT in the UK is something like £45k. Back in 2016 it was such a bargain.
A.J.M said:
TFL have the lighter of the two tyres offered by JLR.
It’s a mild AT tyre at best. Not a mud tyre or a rock crawling tyre. The more aggressive and factory offered tyre would have done better.
But then that doesn’t make good videos to rag on the Defender though.
Which is what they love to do.
https://youtu.be/LCGlUa9blrE
Lucky8 have 35” tyres on theirs and have run harder trails.
https://youtu.be/Vcq0i9eai2E
New Defender mods also have a P400 on 18s with tyres larger than 32”.
So the car can take bigger tyres and clearly can handle better terrain.
Maybe it’s just TFL are s
t drivers.
In the US JLR only offer two tyres. All season and off-road. They got the off-road tyre according to the video. It’s a mild AT tyre at best. Not a mud tyre or a rock crawling tyre. The more aggressive and factory offered tyre would have done better.
But then that doesn’t make good videos to rag on the Defender though.
Which is what they love to do.
https://youtu.be/LCGlUa9blrE
Lucky8 have 35” tyres on theirs and have run harder trails.
https://youtu.be/Vcq0i9eai2E
New Defender mods also have a P400 on 18s with tyres larger than 32”.
So the car can take bigger tyres and clearly can handle better terrain.
Maybe it’s just TFL are s
t drivers.We are still talking stock vehicles. With a suspension lift you can put 40" tyres on a Wrangler...
If you look at the last video you see that the wheel arch is too small for the tyre. They have to severely limit the up travel for the tyre to not contact the body when turning. It's the same problem as Chevy Silverado owner have. Wheel arches only swallow stock size tyres.
Wrong.
They offer 3. It’s in the US brochure.
Page 90 on the link.
https://www.landroverusa.com/Images/Land-Rover-Def...
However, as the dealer is also the same one that broke the 2nd defender TFL got, by failing to install a winch.
Something that Powerful U.K. have made a YouTube video series that’s been used by members of the new Defender groups from 3 different continent.
So they likely didn’t know of it, didn’t care or didn’t ask.
Right car, wrong tyre.
Stick a set of Duratracs on and see how it fares.
They offer 3. It’s in the US brochure.
Page 90 on the link.
https://www.landroverusa.com/Images/Land-Rover-Def...
However, as the dealer is also the same one that broke the 2nd defender TFL got, by failing to install a winch.
Something that Powerful U.K. have made a YouTube video series that’s been used by members of the new Defender groups from 3 different continent.
So they likely didn’t know of it, didn’t care or didn’t ask.
Right car, wrong tyre.
Stick a set of Duratracs on and see how it fares.
A.J.M said:
Wrong.
They offer 3. It’s in the US brochure.
Page 90 on the link.
https://www.landroverusa.com/Images/Land-Rover-Def...
However, as the dealer is also the same one that broke the 2nd defender TFL got, by failing to install a winch.
Something that Powerful U.K. have made a YouTube video series that’s been used by members of the new Defender groups from 3 different continent.
So they likely didn’t know of it, didn’t care or didn’t ask.
Right car, wrong tyre.
Stick a set of Duratracs on and see how it fares.
The Duratracs are "market dependent" and dealer fitment only, so not from factory. They offer 3. It’s in the US brochure.
Page 90 on the link.
https://www.landroverusa.com/Images/Land-Rover-Def...
However, as the dealer is also the same one that broke the 2nd defender TFL got, by failing to install a winch.
Something that Powerful U.K. have made a YouTube video series that’s been used by members of the new Defender groups from 3 different continent.
So they likely didn’t know of it, didn’t care or didn’t ask.
Right car, wrong tyre.
Stick a set of Duratracs on and see how it fares.
Duratracs wouldn't matter in this case as the sidewall is pinched between the wheel and the rock. Only larger sidewall will help.
Maybe JLR will learn one day about offroad tyres, but until then the defender should stay on gravel roads.
Jacob B said:
Maybe JLR will learn one day about offroad tyres, but until then the defender should stay on gravel roads.
But if they jacked it up to take 35” meats (which is what is needed here) then every journo will piss and moan about how it doesn’t handle like an X5.They have rightly designed it to work in 99% of the expected situations - which is little more than a gravel track.
eliot said:
But if they jacked it up to take 35” meats (which is what is needed here) then every journo will piss and moan about how it doesn’t handle like an X5.
They have rightly designed it to work in 99% of the expected situations - which is little more than a gravel track.
I agree. It's not designed to go offroad and it's nothing wrong with that. JLR just needs to communicate it to their customers so their customers don't get stranded in remote locations because they thought they bought a good off-roader. They have rightly designed it to work in 99% of the expected situations - which is little more than a gravel track.
Jacob B said:
eliot said:
But if they jacked it up to take 35” meats (which is what is needed here) then every journo will piss and moan about how it doesn’t handle like an X5.
They have rightly designed it to work in 99% of the expected situations - which is little more than a gravel track.
I agree. It's not designed to go offroad and it's nothing wrong with that. JLR just needs to communicate it to their customers so their customers don't get stranded in remote locations because they thought they bought a good off-roader. They have rightly designed it to work in 99% of the expected situations - which is little more than a gravel track.
ks.It has been designed to go off road and it has already proven to do that and was tested at, among other places, popular Off-roading spots in the US like moab where land rover has tested vehicles for some time.
It has been universally praised for it's ability off road and there are dozens of videos out there evidencing that. Yet certain groups of people want to ignore that and concentrate on the handful of occasions that are the exception and treat them like the rule.
You can buy a defender on 18 inch wheels with proper mud terrain tires, with centre and rear diffs. The problem is that's not what TFL bought, they bought one without the offroad packs on 20 inch tires and all terrain tires.
That is perfectly fine for 99% of general usage.
But then to compare it to two of the best offroaders, with the best off road packs and say its not as good off road, well no st sherlock.
It's a bit like taking a base 911 and saying it's not as good around track as a amg gtr pro black series, well no st sherlock, go use the proper track 991 gt3 rs
That is perfectly fine for 99% of general usage.
But then to compare it to two of the best offroaders, with the best off road packs and say its not as good off road, well no s
t sherlock. It's a bit like taking a base 911 and saying it's not as good around track as a amg gtr pro black series, well no s
t sherlock, go use the proper track 991 gt3 rs cowboyengineer said:
You can buy a defender on 18 inch wheels with proper mud terrain tires, with centre and rear diffs. The problem is that's not what TFL bought
In their defence, they did, it just broke in a terminal manner the first time they used it so they had to get another one.InitialDave said:
cowboyengineer said:
You can buy a defender on 18 inch wheels with proper mud terrain tires, with centre and rear diffs. The problem is that's not what TFL bought
In their defence, they did, it just broke in a terminal manner the first time they used it so they had to get another one.cowboyengineer said:
You can buy a defender on 18 inch wheels with proper mud terrain tires, with centre and rear diffs. The problem is that's not what TFL bought, they bought one without the offroad packs on 20 inch tires and all terrain tires.
That is perfectly fine for 99% of general usage.
But then to compare it to two of the best offroaders, with the best off road packs and say its not as good off road, well no st sherlock.
It's a bit like taking a base 911 and saying it's not as good around track as a amg gtr pro black series, well no st sherlock, go use the proper track 991 gt3 rs
You can have the dealer fit duratracs (not factory) which by the way are not mud tyres. Duratracs are mainly designed for big American pickups that's used as service trucks on bad gravel roads. Which is also what the Defender is made for, bad gravel roads. Hence the tyre choice. That is perfectly fine for 99% of general usage.
But then to compare it to two of the best offroaders, with the best off road packs and say its not as good off road, well no s
t sherlock. It's a bit like taking a base 911 and saying it's not as good around track as a amg gtr pro black series, well no s
t sherlock, go use the proper track 991 gt3 rs They say they bought the offroad package in the last video.
If JLR would have aimed for a good offroad car they would have designed a car with big offroad tyres, lots of suspension travel and strong axles like the Wrangler and to some point the Bronco. But the then it wouldn't be very good on road. You can't eat the cake and still have it which is what this video shows. Low profile tyres are only good in the dealer showroom.
I don't think Porsche has ever mentioned that the base 911 is the best track car, they say it's a very good road car which it is. If JLR would say the same thing no one would argue. But it brings up an interesting point.
What Porsche has done with the new 992 GT3 is basically what Ford has done to the new F150 Raptor. The have put a completely different suspension and tyres on the GT3 then what's fitted to the base 911. Ford has done the same thing with the Raptor. The problem with the Defender is that it needs new much wider control arms to get more suspension travel which makes the car extremely wide, like the Raptor. It also needs new front body like the raptor got to swallow big tyres which is expensive for the manufacturer. The width also makes it terrible on British country roads, which by the way the GT3 is also to some extend as it's a wide car.
The problem is people are criticising land rover for not making a utilitarian work vehicle for farmers, NGOs and the Military while also criticising land rover for not making a vehicle with longer travel suspension and 35" tyres fitted from factory, suited for peoples hobby. Which the old defender wasn't anyway
Personally I'd take a Defender that needs a little bit of modification to be suited for a hobby over a jeep that requires your legs to be modified off your body if you get into an accident.
Personally I'd take a Defender that needs a little bit of modification to be suited for a hobby over a jeep that requires your legs to be modified off your body if you get into an accident.
jhonn said:
That was a pretty fair test I thought, all vehicles stock as supplied by the factory. Although the video doesn't appear to show the Defender in a good light I don't think it will have any effect on its desirability or sales, in the US or Europe. I would have liked to see it do better but can understand why LR haven't manufactured it as an 'ultimate off-roader'.
I can see why LR would bias their vehicles more to on-road handling, performance and comfort; after all that is where it is likely to spend most of its time. I'm sure they could produce a much more extreme off-road version, but how many would they actually sell?
There's a huge recreational off-road market in the US that's why Ford and Jeep can develop and market the Bronco and the Wrangler; the people buying new Defenders are unlikely to be taking them on trails like that.
What? Have you not seen the sheer volume of Ford Ranger Raptors on the roads? There is an enormous market for vehicles that are extremely rough and ready/burly looking. A Defender that was designed and built using the same concept as that Bronco would sell like hot cakes. That Bronco is the coolest vehicle resurrection I think the world has seen.I can see why LR would bias their vehicles more to on-road handling, performance and comfort; after all that is where it is likely to spend most of its time. I'm sure they could produce a much more extreme off-road version, but how many would they actually sell?
There's a huge recreational off-road market in the US that's why Ford and Jeep can develop and market the Bronco and the Wrangler; the people buying new Defenders are unlikely to be taking them on trails like that.
Land Rover easily could have done the same with the Defender and won some proper off road credentials from the enthusiasts and still sold tonnes of them. From what I can tell all they have managed to do is eat into discovery sales to the point where the Disco 5 is barely selling at all in the US anymore. I hear Dosco sales have tailed off massively everywhere since the Defender was launched. They missed their chance with that vehicle so badly.
llcoolmac said:
What? Have you not seen the sheer volume of Ford Ranger Raptors on the roads? There is an enormous market for vehicles that are extremely rough and ready/burly looking. A Defender that was designed and built using the same concept as that Bronco would sell like hot cakes. That Bronco is the coolest vehicle resurrection I think the world has seen.
Land Rover easily could have done the same with the Defender and won some proper off road credentials from the enthusiasts and still sold tonnes of them. From what I can tell all they have managed to do is eat into discovery sales to the point where the Disco 5 is barely selling at all in the US anymore. I hear Dosco sales have tailed off massively everywhere since the Defender was launched. They missed their chance with that vehicle so badly.
I agree. The new Defender is great at what its designed to be, which to me is a very capable road biased car, which they had anyway in the Discovery. I'd love them to have produced a modern Land Rover version of an LC80 but it was never going to happen. Land Rover easily could have done the same with the Defender and won some proper off road credentials from the enthusiasts and still sold tonnes of them. From what I can tell all they have managed to do is eat into discovery sales to the point where the Disco 5 is barely selling at all in the US anymore. I hear Dosco sales have tailed off massively everywhere since the Defender was launched. They missed their chance with that vehicle so badly.
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