Running a pub

[Vasco]

The only really busy pubs I know of (that do food) are Wetherspoons (massive volumes, so realistic prices) and a few select 'quality' pubs where certain clientele are prepared to pay quite a fair bit, for quality and ambience.
Surely, it's the higher volume that becomes essential. ?

[Gigamoons]

105.4 said:

I was in the hospitality business for 16 years. I had my first pub aged 18, followed by bars and nightclubs.

I’ve read a few tenancy agreements / contracts over the years, and I can’t ever remember reading one that I liked. The usual deal was that you’d be tied into getting pretty much everything from one supplier who could dictate whatever prices they wanted to you.

You’re not going to run a successful pub working 40 hours per week. Try 100 hours a week. You’ll be the cleaner, the bartender, the cellar boy, the doorman, the book keeper, the chef, the pot washer and the waiter.

It’s your birthday? You’re working.
Wedding anniversary? You’re working.
Your Wife or kid’s birthday? You’re working.
It’s Christmas? You’re working.
You’ve got severe man flu and are about to be carted off to intensive care? Yep, you’re working.

You’ll be starting at 06:00 every day, and finishing at midnight to 02:00, every day.

Added to which, for the most part it’s a dying industry. I don’t mean to piss on your chips, but why do you think that you’ll be better at this than every other pub in a five mile radius? How much money are you prepared to lose trying this out?

Running a pub isn’t a job. It isn’t a business. It’s a way of life that demands 100% commitment if you plan on eaking out even a meagre living.

I’ve thought of going back into that game several times, both as a Manager or as an owner, and I honestly don’t think I’d have the consistent energy any more.

Good luck though

Agreed, I've not been in the business I've family members who have.
It's a way of life and not an easy one, even for those in the industry most of their lives.

Good luck OP, it can be rewarding, but it's not a career option for the feint hearted!

[uber]

It will be romantic for the first few months then reality will kick in, you are going to be working 24/7, lose all aspects of life you had pre involvement and be craving the day you can exit the business and get back to a real life when you could go out for a meal and not be terrified someone is going to do something stupid to destroy what you spend years building.

So much easier ways to make money now, look for something that you enjoy then use that cash to enjoy the odd pint in the pub you like

[Monkeylegend]

The thing I missed the most was not driving.

The only time I drove was Monday mornings to cash and carry which was a round trip of about 20 miles and that was it until the next Monday.

[Truckosaurus]

Vasco said:

The only really busy pubs I know of (that do food) are Wetherspoons (massive volumes, so realistic prices) and a few select 'quality' pubs where certain clientele are prepared to pay quite a fair bit, for quality and ambience.
Surely, it's the higher volume that becomes essential. ?

Indeed. I follow a chap on Twitter ( https://twitter.com/jeffreyjohnbell ) who has gone from being a beer blogger to running pubs.

He seems to have found a formula where he does what he wants - not selling big brand drinks, stopped doing food, closing for a couple of days a week, shutting for all of January - and manages (if social media is to be believed) to have a packed pub and beer garden at peak times.

Running a tied pub in an average town/suburb seems a recipe for disaster.

[PeteinSQ]

This sometimes goes through my mind as something I'd have a go at if I was ever made redundant. I have a friend who works for Heineken/Star Pubs and they're always after people to run their pubs. He always manages to make it look attractive (but then I suppose that's his job!). He shares things like this on social media:

https://www.starpubs.co.uk/pubs/coach-inn-alnwick

[Caddyshack]

A lot of the pubs that die do seem to be underfunded and everything on the menu is deep fried brake brothers with the same blob of salad on the side - the "chef" is often not trained beyond turning on the fryer.



My friend is planning on adding 9 self contained pods that overlook a stunning view - It is assumed those holiday rents will then feed the pub with punters in excess of the local trade - interesting to see how it will do. Each pod is around £60k to buy (like hobbit houses)

[BoRED S2upid]

Leithen said:

36 Years in the trade.

Offer to buy the freehold.

This. Let them close and put in a cheeky offer.

[CAH706]

BoRED S2upid said:

Leithen said:

36 Years in the trade.

Offer to buy the freehold.

This. Let them close and put in a cheeky offer.

The last time the pub was in a similar situation the village community tried to buy the building.....£4m asking.

I've spoken to the brewery this morning and I'm awaiting a further call.

Mixed outcome really. My lack of experience seemed to put them off. They wanted someone with food experience (the pub stopped doing food a few months back). I did have the previous very well regarded head chef lined up for a role but that didn't seem to make any difference.

They would have allowed me to air B&B the upstairs (it's 4 bedrooms) and would allow the barns to be used as a wedding venue etc. They also moved on the terms to allow a partial tie at the same rate as a full tie. I wanted to get local beer in.

I've not had access to the full financials yet so I can't really make a decision of they were happy for me to take it.

[Leithen]

Pub companies (whether breweries or otherwise) are obviously property companies. At £4M, it suggests one or more of; it's a very busy pub, it's in a location where property is expensive, it's large property, they don't want to sell, they are going to develop it into something else.

At that price I'd be looking at buying a busy city centre operation turning over north of £2M a year. If rental was going to match that valuation it would be at least £100K + a year.

Bargepole avoidance unless you are seriously committed, get a good rent with as loose a tie as possible and a long duration (10 year min).

[CAH706]

Leithen said:

Pub companies (whether breweries or otherwise) are obviously property companies. At £4M, it suggests one or more of; it's a very busy pub, it's in a location where property is expensive, it's large property, they don't want to sell, they are going to develop it into something else.

At that price I'd be looking at buying a busy city centre operation turning over north of £2M a year. If rental was going to match that valuation it would be at least £100K + a year.

Bargepole avoidance unless you are seriously committed, get a good rent with as loose a tie as possible and a long duration (10 year min).

The pub is pretty large and the location is on the more expensive side. There is limited scope for development and given recent planning requests I think the brewery would struggle to change use.

The rent is £36k so quite a bit lower than £100k. This may be reflective of the post covid world and may be worth the village community approaching the brewery again to see what the current value is. They may value lower if they now have more of a desire to sell.

[Leithen]

£36K is very low. Any idea of the condition of the fixtures and fixings? When did it last have a refurb? Any obvious areas needing serious work? All of which ought to lower any valuation substantially.

[sociopath]

Our local village pub has closed again.

It closed back in 2016 and after a year it was reopened by a local who had 30 odd years experience and made it massively successful.
He then moved out (he was beyond retirement age), and since then we've had a series of wannabees slowly running it down.

The freeholders are basically property speculators so want huge investments from tenants (I think the initial investment business rates and first year rent is over 500k) but want them totally tied and to pay a fortune on an ongoing basis, with unrealistic sales targets.

Not surprising no one is taking it, especially considering we have a posh hotel with a bar one way, and a freehold pub the other way.

I suspect it will become either a house or 5 smaller ones on the plot.

I'd love to run a pub, but I'd need a bargepole before I did it nowadays

[Nickbrapp]

Monkeylegend said:

HJG said:

Are the people saying it's a dying industry the very people who have stopped going to the pub?

A quick google search will tell you it is a dying industry with 32 pubs a month closing last year in the UK, according to industry sources.

Coffee shops are were its at now, millennials and gen Z hardly drink, but we love coffee because a coffee shop means we can work remotely and stil get out the house, meet friends, have a nice time, maybe some food and not have a hangover the next day.

That and gin bars.


My local pub closed as it was just a traditional pub now it’s had a refit, serves coffee and fancy G&Ts and when I went by on Saturday afternoon was Rammed.

[The Mad Monk]

PeteinSQ said:

This sometimes goes through my mind as something I'd have a go at if I was ever made redundant. I have a friend who works for Heineken/Star Pubs and they're always after people to run their pubs. He always manages to make it look attractive (but then I suppose that's his job!). He shares things like this on social media:

https://www.starpubs.co.uk/pubs/coach-inn-alnwick

Buy it freehold.

[CAH706]

Leithen said:

£36K is very low. Any idea of the condition of the fixtures and fixings? When did it last have a refurb? Any obvious areas needing serious work? All of which ought to lower any valuation substantially.

Good condition. Was refurrbished 4 years ago and obviously due to covid hasn't had 4 years of wear and tear. Kitchen etc is all in good order.

It's a village pub with older locals so that also keeps it looking decent for longer.

I think it's downfall is basically the landlord having too much on to give it focus. He met his partner, took on this pub alongside his other, adopted kids, split with partner and couldn't manage to run both pubs. He opened 20 hours per week and stopped doing food etc. Pub would never work when it opened on an ad hoc basis.

There is enough trade in the village for it to do 'ok' (I think) but lots of potential to tap into with a bit of effort.

[Vasco]

CAH706 said:

Leithen said:

£36K is very low. Any idea of the condition of the fixtures and fixings? When did it last have a refurb? Any obvious areas needing serious work? All of which ought to lower any valuation substantially.

Good condition. Was refurrbished 4 years ago and obviously due to covid hasn't had 4 years of wear and tear. Kitchen etc is all in good order.

It's a village pub with older locals so that also keeps it looking decent for longer.

I think it's downfall is basically the landlord having too much on to give it focus. He met his partner, took on this pub alongside his other, adopted kids, split with partner and couldn't manage to run both pubs. He opened 20 hours per week and stopped doing food etc. Pub would never work when it opened on an ad hoc basis.

There is enough trade in the village for it to do 'ok' (I think) but lots of potential to tap into with a bit of effort.

All sounds a bit on the 'Too good to be true' side of things for my liking. The idea that it should have lots of potential is one that is heard many times over.
Now, as someone before mentioned, if it was a coffee shop with snacks, tables and good wifi I'd be much more enthusiastic.

[Jordie Barretts sock]

Many years ago (20+) on here I'm sure there was a guy who was a landlord and almost blogged his day to day life on a thread

[Terminator X]

Caddyshack said:

Most people I have talked to who have a lease with a brewery seem to say that as they build the business they see the rents go up to a point where they can’t make money. I think a reasonable income is possible but not proper profit.

My friend has just bought a freehold but I think it will be a 1.5m to 2m project by the time it is up to full potential and still no guarantee of profit.

Agree with this. Our local has seen "the owners" come and go every few years with reason being that brewery make it almost impossible to make a good go of it.

TX.

[Leithen]

As has been said earlier in other posts, you need to be prepared to put in a serious amount of time, at least initially. You also need to be a genuine people person, who can smile at and charm both the pleasant and the obnoxious. The business side is relatively simple. If you are organised and disciplined, running a pub logistically isn't rocket science.

The hard part, which is to many much harder than rocket science is the human side. Customers can be be great and can be a nightmare. And then you add alcohol to the mix and some will be Jekyll & Hyde. Chefs are largely complete nutters or psychopaths. But, if you love that kind of life, and if you can find others who want to share the experience, it can be great fun and very rewarding.

Lots of cost pressures at the moment and many stepping away from the business. But there are always opportunities.