Following the final footsteps of Private James O'Gorman
Discussion
Rather a boring and frankly self-indulgent thread, but some may find the research tools and sources of interest.
My partner's Great Grandfather, James O'Gorman was a pretty unexceptional man, born in Bolton in 1884 or 1885 he led a very hard life, punctuated by spells in prison, a liking for drink, two illegitimate children and death during the Somme Campaign. He has no known grave and until recently was just a few dusty photos and records from the local Family History Society.
Next week we are going to the Somme region, mainly to visit the grave of one of my relatives but to view James's name on the Thiepval Memorial.
In the early part of the 20th century James was living at Hulme Street in Bolton with his parents, wife, sister and several children.
Hulme Street no longer exists, but there are traces of it still extant.
Using the excellent National Library of Scotland mapping system https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom...
we have been able to see exactly where Hughes Street was in relation to the modern street layout.
It's even possible to overlay the two images.
James was imprisoned in 1912, interestingly his wife got a "separation payment"
In the first world war, like so many others James answered the call to the colours and enlisted in the Loyal North Lancashire Regiment. He was in trouble many times for absence, drunkenness etc. He received several sentences of Field Punishment.
According to the Battalion Diary during the 6th and 7th July 1916 the 9th Battalion Loyal North Lancashire Regiment were to attack several trenches. The coordinates are given in an old format, but there are resources online that help you to understand how to decipher them.
We have found where these trenches are, and next week we hope to visit the exact point where we assume he died.
These are the maps - again from the National Library of Scotland.
The orange markers show the limits of the trench to be assaulted as the first objective.
The three turquoise markers show the limits of the trench in the second objective.
The final blue marker shows the final point to be assaulted by "bombers" - soldiers armed with hand grenades. This was the limit of the day's action - it's reasonable to assume that James was killed, along with many of his comrades within this small area.
https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/se...
The CWGC website shows all members of the Regiment who died on that day. 101 men the maority of them with no known grave.
Hopefully we can walk in his final footsteps.
Stand easy, Private O'Gorman, your duty is done.
SD.
My partner's Great Grandfather, James O'Gorman was a pretty unexceptional man, born in Bolton in 1884 or 1885 he led a very hard life, punctuated by spells in prison, a liking for drink, two illegitimate children and death during the Somme Campaign. He has no known grave and until recently was just a few dusty photos and records from the local Family History Society.
Next week we are going to the Somme region, mainly to visit the grave of one of my relatives but to view James's name on the Thiepval Memorial.
In the early part of the 20th century James was living at Hulme Street in Bolton with his parents, wife, sister and several children.
Hulme Street no longer exists, but there are traces of it still extant.
Using the excellent National Library of Scotland mapping system https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom...
we have been able to see exactly where Hughes Street was in relation to the modern street layout.
It's even possible to overlay the two images.
James was imprisoned in 1912, interestingly his wife got a "separation payment"
In the first world war, like so many others James answered the call to the colours and enlisted in the Loyal North Lancashire Regiment. He was in trouble many times for absence, drunkenness etc. He received several sentences of Field Punishment.
According to the Battalion Diary during the 6th and 7th July 1916 the 9th Battalion Loyal North Lancashire Regiment were to attack several trenches. The coordinates are given in an old format, but there are resources online that help you to understand how to decipher them.
We have found where these trenches are, and next week we hope to visit the exact point where we assume he died.
These are the maps - again from the National Library of Scotland.
The orange markers show the limits of the trench to be assaulted as the first objective.
The three turquoise markers show the limits of the trench in the second objective.
The final blue marker shows the final point to be assaulted by "bombers" - soldiers armed with hand grenades. This was the limit of the day's action - it's reasonable to assume that James was killed, along with many of his comrades within this small area.
https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/se...
The CWGC website shows all members of the Regiment who died on that day. 101 men the maority of them with no known grave.
Hopefully we can walk in his final footsteps.
Stand easy, Private O'Gorman, your duty is done.
SD.
I looked up my great uncle online as he died of dysentery and I knew his name was on a war memorial in the village.
I found a picture of his grave in Egypt as he's buried in Alexandria, its weird to think that I'm probably the only member of his family to see his grave over 100 years since his death.
My grandfather had a round memorial plaque that was given to the family (I believe these were given to relatives after the death of a soldier?). My grandfather also had a small bottle of smelling salts that were in his uncles belongings when he died.
Is it true that the British didn't bring the bodies of soldiers back but erected memorials in towns and villages instead?
I found a picture of his grave in Egypt as he's buried in Alexandria, its weird to think that I'm probably the only member of his family to see his grave over 100 years since his death.
My grandfather had a round memorial plaque that was given to the family (I believe these were given to relatives after the death of a soldier?). My grandfather also had a small bottle of smelling salts that were in his uncles belongings when he died.
Is it true that the British didn't bring the bodies of soldiers back but erected memorials in towns and villages instead?
Random84 said:
....
Is it true that the British didn't bring the bodies of soldiers back but erected memorials in towns and villages instead?
For the First World War on the Western Front the British dead were pretty much buried where they fell, so there are a huge number of tiny graveyards, which often follow the front line. It is interesting when you find one that was linked to a field hospital as they have very few 'unknown' graves compared to the others.Is it true that the British didn't bring the bodies of soldiers back but erected memorials in towns and villages instead?
(Edit to Add: you can see a couple of graveyards on the satellite photo in the OP)
The French grouped their dead into huge cemeteries, and it is somewhat disturbing to visit and see a simple marked out square mass grave with a sign saying 'here lie 5000 dead'.
Edited by Truckosaurus on Sunday 3rd September 07:20
Truckosaurus said:
Random84 said:
....
Is it true that the British didn't bring the bodies of soldiers back but erected memorials in towns and villages instead?
For the First World War on the Western Front the British dead were pretty much buried where they fell, so there are a huge number of tiny graveyards, which often follow the front line. It is interesting when you find one that was linked to a field hospital as they have very few 'unknown' graves compared to the others.Is it true that the British didn't bring the bodies of soldiers back but erected memorials in towns and villages instead?
The French grouped their dead into huge cemeteries, and it is somewhat disturbing to visit and see a simple marked out square mass grave with a sign saying 'here lie 5000 dead'.
One of my hobbies is as a volunteer ambassador for the CWGC, giving talks to groups in the north west of England.
SD.
Thiepval is an amazing memorial as I'm sure you know, but when I followed a similar process I was frustrated that some of the names were too high to be read clearly enough. I couldn't find the name even though I was pretty sure I was at the correct column. If I go again it will be with some binoculars!
Well, in order to stop the normal PH accusations of the OP never finishing a story - I'm back!
On Saturday we visited my great uncle's grave - it had never been visited by any of the family as far as we are aware. Robert Rowen was 21, he joined the 22nd Battalion The London Regiment, enlisting at Old Jamaica Road, Bermondsey. He was involved in the Assault on High Wood (https://www.ww1battlefields.co.uk/somme/high-wood/) and was wounded on 16th September 1916. He was transported to Casualty Clearing Station 36 at Heilly Station. He died of wounds on the 18th of September.
A diagram of the layout of Heilly Station CCS.
He was buried in a nearby field, his grave marked by a temporary grave marker.
Following the cessation of hostilities he was reinterred and given a permanent memorial. Interestingly he is buried with another soldier, a very common occurrence. Note that the rank on the temporary grave marker shows Lance Corporal - there is no record of any promotion.
The setting is idyllic - almost crushingly quiet.
This inscription, like so many others brought quite a bit of dust to many in the group.
We all like a bit of casual Francophobia, but their generosity to our ancestors is a credit to them.
In the afternoon we went to fulfil my partner's wish and to see where her great grandfather fell.
A little picnic taken by the church in La Boisellle. There was a church on this site in July 1916, clearly rebuilt, it follows the same outline and desgn.
James O'Gorman will have seen the church here, maybe even mumbled a prayer as the attack started.
We walked up the lane to one of our identified spots - a small copse of trees which is clearly seen on the up to date map at the junction of the lane and a small farm track. This was the end of the first trench to be captured.
Looking over the field we could see the shape of the land, absolutely no cover other than shell holes. And still they had to advance.
We assume that James died in this field. His body was never identified. He may be one of many thousands who are buried "A soldier of the great war - known unto God" or his body may have simply vanished, torn apart in a hailstorm of lead.
We then went to Ovillers Cemetery - where most of the casualties from La Boiselle were interred.
What surprised us all is the absolute respect the French pay to our dead. There is a freely accessible visitor's book and pens - no one has thought to scribble in it, steal the pens or set it alight. I somehow doubt that would be the case in this country.
With no known grave, James does have a permanent memorial - along with 72000 others on the Thiepval Memorial who have no identified resting place. The scale is jaw dropping. Pillar after pillar marked with names, sons, husbands, brothers. All whose lives were cut short in one small area of France.
Finally, the end of our journey, we've walked in his final footsteps, cried, laughed and thought of what could have been for many hundreds of thousands of young men. In the end though, it was about one man. Unexceptional, and if things had been different he would have had no everlasting memorial.
Rest easy, Private 12455 James O'Gorman. 9th Battalion Loyal North Lancashire Regiment. Your duty is done.
SD.
On Saturday we visited my great uncle's grave - it had never been visited by any of the family as far as we are aware. Robert Rowen was 21, he joined the 22nd Battalion The London Regiment, enlisting at Old Jamaica Road, Bermondsey. He was involved in the Assault on High Wood (https://www.ww1battlefields.co.uk/somme/high-wood/) and was wounded on 16th September 1916. He was transported to Casualty Clearing Station 36 at Heilly Station. He died of wounds on the 18th of September.
A diagram of the layout of Heilly Station CCS.
He was buried in a nearby field, his grave marked by a temporary grave marker.
Following the cessation of hostilities he was reinterred and given a permanent memorial. Interestingly he is buried with another soldier, a very common occurrence. Note that the rank on the temporary grave marker shows Lance Corporal - there is no record of any promotion.
The setting is idyllic - almost crushingly quiet.
This inscription, like so many others brought quite a bit of dust to many in the group.
We all like a bit of casual Francophobia, but their generosity to our ancestors is a credit to them.
In the afternoon we went to fulfil my partner's wish and to see where her great grandfather fell.
A little picnic taken by the church in La Boisellle. There was a church on this site in July 1916, clearly rebuilt, it follows the same outline and desgn.
James O'Gorman will have seen the church here, maybe even mumbled a prayer as the attack started.
We walked up the lane to one of our identified spots - a small copse of trees which is clearly seen on the up to date map at the junction of the lane and a small farm track. This was the end of the first trench to be captured.
Looking over the field we could see the shape of the land, absolutely no cover other than shell holes. And still they had to advance.
We assume that James died in this field. His body was never identified. He may be one of many thousands who are buried "A soldier of the great war - known unto God" or his body may have simply vanished, torn apart in a hailstorm of lead.
We then went to Ovillers Cemetery - where most of the casualties from La Boiselle were interred.
What surprised us all is the absolute respect the French pay to our dead. There is a freely accessible visitor's book and pens - no one has thought to scribble in it, steal the pens or set it alight. I somehow doubt that would be the case in this country.
With no known grave, James does have a permanent memorial - along with 72000 others on the Thiepval Memorial who have no identified resting place. The scale is jaw dropping. Pillar after pillar marked with names, sons, husbands, brothers. All whose lives were cut short in one small area of France.
Finally, the end of our journey, we've walked in his final footsteps, cried, laughed and thought of what could have been for many hundreds of thousands of young men. In the end though, it was about one man. Unexceptional, and if things had been different he would have had no everlasting memorial.
Rest easy, Private 12455 James O'Gorman. 9th Battalion Loyal North Lancashire Regiment. Your duty is done.
SD.
Fantastic stuff.
I had a "let's have a quick five minute look at PH" moment in the office, now I'm in a huge rabbit hole of Somme battlefield information, and planning another visit. It's been too long. The Somme as it is today is somewhere every single British person should visit once in their lives. I know people say this about Auschwitz, but for me the Somme is more poignant (is that wrong?).
Anyway, back to work.
I had a "let's have a quick five minute look at PH" moment in the office, now I'm in a huge rabbit hole of Somme battlefield information, and planning another visit. It's been too long. The Somme as it is today is somewhere every single British person should visit once in their lives. I know people say this about Auschwitz, but for me the Somme is more poignant (is that wrong?).
Anyway, back to work.
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