Selling a car to a French National
Discussion
Hi All,
Just after a bit of advice.
I have just sold my car to a nice chap from France. He is picking the car up next weekend. According to the DVLA website I am supposed to let him take the V5 in full to help him register the car in France, and write a letter to the DVLA explaining the situation at which point they will un-register the car as a UK car. This is all fine...
However, what's to stop the new owner driving like Alain Prost on his way home setting off speed cameras, and the NIPs landing on my doorstep?
I plan to get him to sign a letter with the change of ownership date and time, but is this enough? I don't think the DVLA count the vehicle as having switched ownership until they get the letter.
Am I worrying too much, are the powers that be likely to believe me? Or is there something else I can do to protect myself?
Just after a bit of advice.
I have just sold my car to a nice chap from France. He is picking the car up next weekend. According to the DVLA website I am supposed to let him take the V5 in full to help him register the car in France, and write a letter to the DVLA explaining the situation at which point they will un-register the car as a UK car. This is all fine...
However, what's to stop the new owner driving like Alain Prost on his way home setting off speed cameras, and the NIPs landing on my doorstep?
I plan to get him to sign a letter with the change of ownership date and time, but is this enough? I don't think the DVLA count the vehicle as having switched ownership until they get the letter.
Am I worrying too much, are the powers that be likely to believe me? Or is there something else I can do to protect myself?
I've bought a couple of cars in the UK (I'm based in Belgium), and have only needed the bit of the V5 you would normally give to the buyer.
Regarding liability, I would take a copy of his return boat or eurostar ticket (nearly everyone has got a printer/scanner/copier at home these days) as extra proof for speeding tickets etc.
Has he asked you for the chassis nr for the car? The reason I ask this is that this has been the only way I have been able to insure foreign-registered cars to collect them - Belgian insureres won't insure a foreign-registered car. (this may only apply to Belgium, or maybe even only my insurers!)
P.S. I hope it's not a very rare car as he may have a difficulty registering it in France - they require a certificate of conformity which is not normally needed (or used) in the UK.
Regarding liability, I would take a copy of his return boat or eurostar ticket (nearly everyone has got a printer/scanner/copier at home these days) as extra proof for speeding tickets etc.
Has he asked you for the chassis nr for the car? The reason I ask this is that this has been the only way I have been able to insure foreign-registered cars to collect them - Belgian insureres won't insure a foreign-registered car. (this may only apply to Belgium, or maybe even only my insurers!)
P.S. I hope it's not a very rare car as he may have a difficulty registering it in France - they require a certificate of conformity which is not normally needed (or used) in the UK.
He hasn't asked for the chassis number as yet, but I guess he's got a week to do that.
Good advice about taking a copy of those things, I will do that.
It's a TVR Cerbera, so I don't know if that's considered a rare car or not on the continent.
So advice is to carry on exactly as if it were a sale to a UK national and send all the documents to the DVLA as usual, plus the letter. Then take copies of all his details.
I'm sure there won't be a problem, but better to be safe than sorry eh?
Good advice about taking a copy of those things, I will do that.
It's a TVR Cerbera, so I don't know if that's considered a rare car or not on the continent.
So advice is to carry on exactly as if it were a sale to a UK national and send all the documents to the DVLA as usual, plus the letter. Then take copies of all his details.
I'm sure there won't be a problem, but better to be safe than sorry eh?
sunbeam alpine said:
P.S. I hope it's not a very rare car as he may have a difficulty registering it in France - they require a certificate of conformity which is not normally needed (or used) in the UK.
If he is French, he should not have a problem with this.If he doesn't know which palm to grease, he simply takes it to a garage where they give it the once over and issue the certificate.
At the worst case it would be around £600 on a vintage vehicle with no history available.
My parents didn't have to pay, as the chap they brought their house from was related (cousin I think) of the chap in the garage doing the certificate!
DVLA Leaflet said:
What to do if you are selling your vehicle privately to someone that does not have a GB address
You should fill in sections 6 and 10 with the new keeper’s name and address. Both you and the new keeper (buyer) must sign and date the declaration in section 8. Give the whole V5C to the new keeper to aid registration abroad.
You should then send a signed letter to DVLA, Swansea, SA99 1AG giving
the vehicle’s registration number, the make and model of the vehicle, the
date of sale or transfer, and the name and address of the new keeper.
Once we know about the change of keeper, you should receive an acknowledgement letter to confirm that you are no longer responsible for
the vehicle.
That was downloaded from the DVLA website yesterday, it's slightly contradictory, but I read it as you do things the other way round as normal, so you give the main V5 to the buyer but send the green slip, with the letter back to the DVLA. It doesn't mention the Export section here, but I guess there is no harm in filling it in too, it's only a date and signature. The export section only states: You should fill in sections 6 and 10 with the new keeper’s name and address. Both you and the new keeper (buyer) must sign and date the declaration in section 8. Give the whole V5C to the new keeper to aid registration abroad.
You should then send a signed letter to DVLA, Swansea, SA99 1AG giving
the vehicle’s registration number, the make and model of the vehicle, the
date of sale or transfer, and the name and address of the new keeper.
Once we know about the change of keeper, you should receive an acknowledgement letter to confirm that you are no longer responsible for
the vehicle.
DVLA Leaflet said:
If you are taking your vehicle abroad (including the Isle of Man or the Channel Islands) for more than 12 months, this is considered to be a permanent export. In this situation you must fill in section 11 of the V5C with:
• the date of export, and
• sign and date the declaration.
This seems to imply that it's for when you are taking the car abroad yourself.• the date of export, and
• sign and date the declaration.
Thanks for all the advice so far, especially about taking copies of everything, that's an excellent idea.
TorqueVR said:
Your're selling a Cerb to a Frog!!?? He probably thinks its some kind of 2CV
I KNOW can you imagine it in Paris traffic?? 
He's from Calais, so I guess he's only half an hour from UK for servicing etc. I do feel like I am letting the side down a bit, but hey, he had the money...
I flogged my TVR Griffith to a very nice Franch chap who set up a company 'front' in Newbury to use as a UK address to keep the car 'British' whilst he looked into registering it in France (via the Certificate of Conformity route - which he couldn't get in the UK). I'm not sure whether he managed it or kept it registered in the UK (it is not showing on AskMID as having insurance but his profile picture on PH still has the UK reg)
I sold my A6 a few years ago to a chap who wanted to export it to Africa.He insisted he needed the full V5 to get it on the boat a few days later.I told him to jog on and gave him a scanned copy of it and the new buyers slip.I then sent the remainder off ticking the permnent export box.
Never heard any more.
Never heard any more.
The moment a vehicle lands on French soil, the registration document - even that of the country of origin, MUST be with the vehicle under French laws.
If you are stopped without one, there is every chance that the vehicle will be seized until the document is produced.
A Swedish motorcyclist got stopped near my parents, and his bike was seized.
He lodged near them until he got the documents sent in the mail from home - about a week!
I left a vehicle in France at my parents and the reg. document - later sold it.
DVLA were not happy but eventually relented when it was explained to them, and I filled in the notice of permanent export form.
If you are stopped without one, there is every chance that the vehicle will be seized until the document is produced.
A Swedish motorcyclist got stopped near my parents, and his bike was seized.
He lodged near them until he got the documents sent in the mail from home - about a week!
I left a vehicle in France at my parents and the reg. document - later sold it.
DVLA were not happy but eventually relented when it was explained to them, and I filled in the notice of permanent export form.
When i sold my S2 Elise to a French guy from near Lyon his inbound Greasy jet flight was delayed when he came to pick the car up. He showed me his Eurotunnel ticket for 16.00pm that afternoon. He was still at mine at 14.30, near to M25 jct 28 so I asked him if I could take one last picture on the car just before he left my house. Traffic was very heavy that Saturday afternoon but he made it, probably making full use of the Honda power available on his way down the M20.
No speeding tickets were received by me
No speeding tickets were received by me
Mill Wheel said:
If he is French, he should not have a problem with this.
If he doesn't know which palm to grease, he simply takes it to a garage where they give it the once over and issue the certificate.
At the worst case it would be around £600 on a vintage vehicle with no history available.
My parents didn't have to pay, as the chap they brought their house from was related (cousin I think) of the chap in the garage doing the certificate!
Sorry but that's completely inaccurate.If he doesn't know which palm to grease, he simply takes it to a garage where they give it the once over and issue the certificate.
At the worst case it would be around £600 on a vintage vehicle with no history available.
My parents didn't have to pay, as the chap they brought their house from was related (cousin I think) of the chap in the garage doing the certificate!
To register a foreign vehicle in France you need either a manufacturers Certificate of Conformity or to submit the vehicle for inspection by the French equivalent of UK's VOSA, the DREAL (ex DRIRE). Once satisfied with the vehicle (not always a given) they will issue an 'attestation'. No garage can give it 'the once over', that's pure invention!
At the very least the lights will need changing to pass a CT, the equivalent of the MOT, but without either the C of C or a DREAL attestation test stations will refuse to test the car.
Older cars can be registered as Vehicle de Collection via the FFVE but have to be at least 30 years old to qualify.
Mill Wheel said:
It is also easier for the French to overcome these hurdles if they know somebody in the trade or at the marie...
Applies to most things in France where paperwork is involved.A friend of mine got bumped to the top of the housing waiting list once her friend (brother of the maire) found out her predicament...
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