Motorway Policing Policy.
Discussion
Following on from Will Crash's demise from the roads Policing Dept because of core responsibilities, I was talking to 2 RP officers yesterday who told me that the Policy in TVP regarding Motorways is that RP attention is no longer a requirement unless they have to attend to deal with a particular incident!
The reasons are.
1. It has been determined at senior level that the presence of marked units is counter productive to the general flowand safety of those using the road (causes tailbacks and unecessary braking)
2. It is dangerous for the officers and drivers in their vicinity to Police the road as stopping of vehicles for offences on the Hard shoulder is unsafe practice.
This has turned completely on its head from my days on the 'T' division where it was a discipline offence to been seen off route if you were allocated a motorway route as patrol area.
Three questions arise from this.
1. Has training of Roads Policing Officers has been degraded to such an extent that they cannot be trusted to do the job properly anymore?
2. Will the absence of marked units be a benefit to the generally law abiding driver who is tailgated or submitted to acts of careless/dangerous driving?
3. Will enforcement of motorway regulations be advancing at the rate of other roads in relation to the use of video and still photography prosecution?
The information I received astounded me and to some extent saddened me too. Perhaps Will Crash has made the right decision at the right time!
The reasons are.
1. It has been determined at senior level that the presence of marked units is counter productive to the general flowand safety of those using the road (causes tailbacks and unecessary braking)
2. It is dangerous for the officers and drivers in their vicinity to Police the road as stopping of vehicles for offences on the Hard shoulder is unsafe practice.
This has turned completely on its head from my days on the 'T' division where it was a discipline offence to been seen off route if you were allocated a motorway route as patrol area.
Three questions arise from this.
1. Has training of Roads Policing Officers has been degraded to such an extent that they cannot be trusted to do the job properly anymore?
2. Will the absence of marked units be a benefit to the generally law abiding driver who is tailgated or submitted to acts of careless/dangerous driving?
3. Will enforcement of motorway regulations be advancing at the rate of other roads in relation to the use of video and still photography prosecution?
The information I received astounded me and to some extent saddened me too. Perhaps Will Crash has made the right decision at the right time!
Ok, I have a question.
If the TVP are self regulating to the level that they wont put a traffic car on the motorway due to the concertina effect of braking (presumably) and the safety problems therein why are we to put up with cameras that cause EXACTLY the same issue?
(Oh and this message is sponsored by the charming Met beat officer this morning who decided to park in one carriageway of the A4 just before Talgarth roundabout during rush hour to have a chat with some dog section officers who at least had the presense of mind to get off the busiest road in London. I bloody ask you! :rolleyes)
If the TVP are self regulating to the level that they wont put a traffic car on the motorway due to the concertina effect of braking (presumably) and the safety problems therein why are we to put up with cameras that cause EXACTLY the same issue?
(Oh and this message is sponsored by the charming Met beat officer this morning who decided to park in one carriageway of the A4 just before Talgarth roundabout during rush hour to have a chat with some dog section officers who at least had the presense of mind to get off the busiest road in London. I bloody ask you! :rolleyes)
Steve.
My fear is that this is the start of a transfer of responsibility over to the scamera partnerships using their telescopic long range laser devices. Driving standards are ignored with speed being the only thing looked at. I'll be honest and say my mind wanders/I almost fall asleep when driving at 70. Hell, down here we even have people getting done on the M4 by the severn bridge for doing 82mph on an empty motorway. The Senior police officers directing policing in this manner should be fired for GFI (Gross F.....g Incompetence)
DAZ
>> Edited by dazren on Wednesday 26th May 10:33
My fear is that this is the start of a transfer of responsibility over to the scamera partnerships using their telescopic long range laser devices. Driving standards are ignored with speed being the only thing looked at. I'll be honest and say my mind wanders/I almost fall asleep when driving at 70. Hell, down here we even have people getting done on the M4 by the severn bridge for doing 82mph on an empty motorway. The Senior police officers directing policing in this manner should be fired for GFI (Gross F.....g Incompetence)
DAZ
>> Edited by dazren on Wednesday 26th May 10:33
Plotloss said:
Ok, I have a question.
If the TVP are self regulating to the level that they wont put a traffic car on the motorway due to the concertina effect of braking (presumably) and the safety problems therein why are we to put up with cameras that cause EXACTLY the same issue?
Lord only knows?
Still if they have decided that this is the case with RP vehicles and Officers, in about 10 years time, the same thinking/policy may well get around to the effect that visible static cameras are having. Quite frankly as you have observed, the effects are absolutely no different!
Is it possible that the cameras will then all become unmarked to negate the problem of sudden braking?
plotless said:
(Oh and this message is sponsored by the charming Met beat officer this morning who decided to park in one carriageway of the A4 just before Talgarth roundabout during rush hour to have a chat with some dog section officers who at least had the presense of mind to get off the busiest road in London. I bloody ask you! :rolleyes)
Maintaining through flow of rush hour trafic is obviously not a 'core responsibility' of beat officers then
There has really been a steady decline in the way that Traffic Division operates over the last few years.
This can also be attributed with the dwindling numbers of Officers in the unit.
Going back to what Gone has said,it was a big nono when posted Motorway patrol to leave the Motorway other than for an Arrest.
Sadly, now........instead of having 2 dedicated cars, we have gone down to one car. This car covers the Area and Motorway so it is quite feasable that some days it would not make it at all.
More and more of our 'jobs' are being taken from us and given to civilian units and this is intended to 'free' up as many Traffic Patrol Officers to fight other types of crime.
We no longer do Ambulance Escorts (except on the rare occasion) or Abnormal Loads.
It was found to be cheaper to give the Ambulance crew a map and to farm the Ab loads out to private companies.
I honestly dont know where this is all going to end but all i can say is that im pleased that im on the downward slope to retirement (if indeed i last that long).
This can also be attributed with the dwindling numbers of Officers in the unit.
Going back to what Gone has said,it was a big nono when posted Motorway patrol to leave the Motorway other than for an Arrest.
Sadly, now........instead of having 2 dedicated cars, we have gone down to one car. This car covers the Area and Motorway so it is quite feasable that some days it would not make it at all.
More and more of our 'jobs' are being taken from us and given to civilian units and this is intended to 'free' up as many Traffic Patrol Officers to fight other types of crime.
We no longer do Ambulance Escorts (except on the rare occasion) or Abnormal Loads.
It was found to be cheaper to give the Ambulance crew a map and to farm the Ab loads out to private companies.
I honestly dont know where this is all going to end but all i can say is that im pleased that im on the downward slope to retirement (if indeed i last that long).
jazzybee said:
excuse my ignorance, who will be there to pull the dangerous drivers?
It will be put down to excessive speed. Speed limits will be lowered, and more cameras put into place
hmmm.....lets see how cameras work....they recognise characteristics of vehicles - very specifically numberplates - and then do you 'after the event'. The obvious possibility of getting tugged by Bib if, say, you have NO rear numberplate stops a lot of people doing it......so when everyone finds out that there are NO police actually on the motorways they will simply start removing them at the start of long journeys. Cos thats what I'd do
The onyl point in what gone has posted I'd even slightly agree with is that there have been instances where the attending emergecy services have left lights flashing logn after the evnt and it does indeed cause huge tailbacks of traffic as every bastard assumes there is something to rubberneck at....
Norfolk police said they would park police cars at accident blackspots during busy periods to use the 'halo' effect - people drive like angels when they see a plod car.
I don't know whether this was trafpol or normal plod though, and Norfolk police are desperate to distance themselves from Norfolk Casualty Reduction Parsnip (the 'Enron of the partnership world' - Ted). Also, I don't know if they've actually done this, I don't pass accident blackspots on my travels at busy times.
I don't know whether this was trafpol or normal plod though, and Norfolk police are desperate to distance themselves from Norfolk Casualty Reduction Parsnip (the 'Enron of the partnership world' - Ted). Also, I don't know if they've actually done this, I don't pass accident blackspots on my travels at busy times.
superlightr said:
blimey I didnt realise it was as bad as that. So it will be a rare occurance to see a Jam Sandwich on the motorway!?!
excuse my ignorance, who will be there to pull the dangerous drivers?
or will it be when they crash they are then off the road?
Where have you been the last 12 months....I guess not on a motorway in TVP area ?
It is indeed already a rare occurance to see any kind of police vehicle on the motorways in TVP area.
Strangely, I have seen very few accidents since this policy has been introduced.
The worst drivers are the Truckers, as they cause most accidents from what I have seen.
[quote=ledfoot]
It is indeed already a rare occurance to see any kind of police vehicle on the motorways in TVP area.
quote]
Not just there either, I've been commuting from West Yorkshire to South Staffs and back three times a week for the past year and its no exaggeration when I say I can go months without seeing a police vehicle on the motorway..
Except of course the morning I noticed a Hampshire police van travelling down the M6 through Cheshire and then Staffordshire averaging around 90mph... Knew the weren't TrafPol though... they had no lane discipline!
It is indeed already a rare occurance to see any kind of police vehicle on the motorways in TVP area.
quote]
Not just there either, I've been commuting from West Yorkshire to South Staffs and back three times a week for the past year and its no exaggeration when I say I can go months without seeing a police vehicle on the motorway..
Except of course the morning I noticed a Hampshire police van travelling down the M6 through Cheshire and then Staffordshire averaging around 90mph... Knew the weren't TrafPol though... they had no lane discipline!
Since the last conservative administration, it has been Government policy to "work towards" road pricing i.e. "Tolls". When, "not if" they implement it by farming out road maintenance to private companies, in return for them to charge a toll. WHO THEN NEEDS SPEED CAMERA'S. you go through the booth, pick up your ticket (with the time stamped on) you arrive at the pay booth "too early" and ROBERTS YOUR MOTHERS BROTHER! your nicked my son. Back to the future? remember! you heard it here first!
Self Policing roads Eh! Why are we going to need Trafpol? This is where it's leading chaps!
>> Edited by 8Pack on Thursday 27th May 00:32
Self Policing roads Eh! Why are we going to need Trafpol? This is where it's leading chaps!
>> Edited by 8Pack on Thursday 27th May 00:32
ledfoot said:
It is indeed already a rare occurance to see any kind of police vehicle on the motorways in TVP area.
Further west is exactly the same: Bristol to Swindon every day and I go for weeks without seeing a marked car.... mind you, then I see one a day for a week or so!
Traffic moves well west of Swindon though
- although probably not this afternoon 
Glen
I've been up the m42/m40/m6 quite a bit recently and thought i'd seen quite a few marked plod mobiles but then i realised they are all the 4x4's used by the new (private) response and maint company not plod at all.
they look just like plod untill you notice the lights on top are orange...
they also have the same traffic flow effect as plod...
although i did see an unmarked Jag x type on the m6..
fortunetly for me he was pulling off the hard shoulder with the lights flashing... otherwise i think i'd have been his next gotcha..
when i started driving regularly on the motorways about 15 years ago, you could guarantee to see atleast a couple of plod on your trip.. these days its a very rare accurrance..
over the same time i've seen a decline in driving standards... tailgating, lane hogging, undertaking ect ect...
they look just like plod untill you notice the lights on top are orange...
they also have the same traffic flow effect as plod...
although i did see an unmarked Jag x type on the m6..
fortunetly for me he was pulling off the hard shoulder with the lights flashing... otherwise i think i'd have been his next gotcha..
when i started driving regularly on the motorways about 15 years ago, you could guarantee to see atleast a couple of plod on your trip.. these days its a very rare accurrance..
over the same time i've seen a decline in driving standards... tailgating, lane hogging, undertaking ect ect...
Well its a fact that a marked police car causes tailbacks and panic braking, however this surely is as a result of their being fewer police cars on the motorway over the last decade or so, meaning less danger of being done for speeding therefore higher speeds.
This is no different to what happened on other roads, no police patrols, no police with speedtraps, little chance of being done for speeding, therefore greater speed. The end result of which is cameras all over the place, and despite speeds rising with no cameras casualty rates went down. Doubdtful that this has continued with cameras.
The danger of no marked cars on motorways is that there will be more unmarked cars and therefore a greater threat to those exceeding the limit, although if its unsafe to stop you thats not a problem!
Might be worth suggesting to the powers that be that if they reduced all the form filling the police needed to do, allowed them to clip offenders around the ear, didn't give them fixed targets, but allowed them to educate offenders, the officers on the streets would spend more time on the streets, hence be a greater deterrent, and be more promiment and probably lead to a reduction in offences.
This is no different to what happened on other roads, no police patrols, no police with speedtraps, little chance of being done for speeding, therefore greater speed. The end result of which is cameras all over the place, and despite speeds rising with no cameras casualty rates went down. Doubdtful that this has continued with cameras.
The danger of no marked cars on motorways is that there will be more unmarked cars and therefore a greater threat to those exceeding the limit, although if its unsafe to stop you thats not a problem!
Might be worth suggesting to the powers that be that if they reduced all the form filling the police needed to do, allowed them to clip offenders around the ear, didn't give them fixed targets, but allowed them to educate offenders, the officers on the streets would spend more time on the streets, hence be a greater deterrent, and be more promiment and probably lead to a reduction in offences.
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