Can a mobile speed camera park here?
Discussion
Hi, just got a nice letter today informing me that I was caught speeding, and I can remember exactly where the camera van was, but i'm not sure he was allowed to even park there.
He was parked in a layby on the other side of the dual carriageway, facing oncoming traffic. Now the dual carriage way has a hashed central reservation with a broken line on my side and a solid line on his side. Surely he must of 'driven' the wrong way down the dual carriageway to park and to leave?
I've attached a google maps link of the layby from my point of view when i was snapped....
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=lancing&hl=en&...
He was parked in a layby on the other side of the dual carriageway, facing oncoming traffic. Now the dual carriage way has a hashed central reservation with a broken line on my side and a solid line on his side. Surely he must of 'driven' the wrong way down the dual carriageway to park and to leave?
I've attached a google maps link of the layby from my point of view when i was snapped....
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=lancing&hl=en&...
I'm assuming he slowed down on the opposite side, indicated and cut across the oncoming traffic. Im guessing each force is different, but in mine, only certain sites can be used at certain times, and all these have to be risk assessed.
Either way, he could have been parked on his roof, setting fire to a childs bike using a flamethrower and kicking the green cross code man in the face, all at the same time, and it still wouldnt get you off the ticket.
Either way, he could have been parked on his roof, setting fire to a childs bike using a flamethrower and kicking the green cross code man in the face, all at the same time, and it still wouldnt get you off the ticket.
Its not a Dual Carriageway!
128
Double white lines where the line nearest to you is broken. This means you may cross the lines to overtake if it is safe, provided you can complete the manoeuvre before reaching a solid white line on your side. White direction arrows on the road indicate that you need to get back onto your side of the road.
129
Double white lines where the line nearest you is solid. This means you MUST NOT cross or straddle it unless it is safe and you need to enter adjoining premises or a side road. You may cross the line if necessary, provided the road is clear, to pass a stationary vehicle, or overtake a pedal cycle, horse or road maintenance vehicle, if they are travelling at 10 mph (16 km/h) or less.
128
Double white lines where the line nearest to you is broken. This means you may cross the lines to overtake if it is safe, provided you can complete the manoeuvre before reaching a solid white line on your side. White direction arrows on the road indicate that you need to get back onto your side of the road.
129
Double white lines where the line nearest you is solid. This means you MUST NOT cross or straddle it unless it is safe and you need to enter adjoining premises or a side road. You may cross the line if necessary, provided the road is clear, to pass a stationary vehicle, or overtake a pedal cycle, horse or road maintenance vehicle, if they are travelling at 10 mph (16 km/h) or less.
I regret that the argument I suspect you want to put forward won't get you anywhere.
If you are on less than 9 points at the moment I would take the 3 points and the fine. If you are on 9 points you could take a financial risk and hire a lawyer to argue the toss.
The problem with scammerati is the can get away with breaking several rules to fine you for breaking one.
If you are on less than 9 points at the moment I would take the 3 points and the fine. If you are on 9 points you could take a financial risk and hire a lawyer to argue the toss.
The problem with scammerati is the can get away with breaking several rules to fine you for breaking one.
That is a four lane single carriageway .
Your best hope would be to check that the signage for the limit , whatever it might be is fully compliant with all the legislation . The parking of the van is unlikely to affect any outcome ( although you can ask to check that the equipment is home office approved , properly calibrated and the operator properly trained in its use , and that it was on that day being used fully in compliance with instructions ) .
If you are just looking at a fixed penalty and 3 points ( or the option of a speed awareness course and no conviction )it is probably not worth the hassle of challenging it .
Your best hope would be to check that the signage for the limit , whatever it might be is fully compliant with all the legislation . The parking of the van is unlikely to affect any outcome ( although you can ask to check that the equipment is home office approved , properly calibrated and the operator properly trained in its use , and that it was on that day being used fully in compliance with instructions ) .
If you are just looking at a fixed penalty and 3 points ( or the option of a speed awareness course and no conviction )it is probably not worth the hassle of challenging it .
They're well-known for sitting in that spot. There's another notorious spot up by the joining sliproad from Shoreham - they clock you heading west as you come down from the Southwick tunnel.
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Southwick+tunnel&a...
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Southwick+tunnel&a...
Edited by Funk on Wednesday 6th July 12:00
Breadvan73 said:
Typing "surely he must of" surely deserves three points and a fine anyway, so do yer porridge.
Only three points? 
I'll say again what countless others have said countless times on countless threads ... talivans (can) park where the h3ll they like. Whether they may or not.
And if the OP wants the definition of a dual carriageway, there are many threads on SP&L where it has been discussed to death and very clearly defined.
Streaky
Sorry to say but I think you will be having a pea into the wind if you try and contest this. Exactly the same happened to one of our drivers in his truck, he was doing what he though was a legal limit on a `dual carridgeway`, but it wasn`t one it was the same as this road. Basically if there is no central crash barrier it ain`t a dual and the plod have the right to cross it.
Landshark said:
Its not a Dual Carriageway!
128
Double white lines where the line nearest to you is broken. This means you may cross the lines to overtake if it is safe, provided you can complete the manoeuvre before reaching a solid white line on your side. White direction arrows on the road indicate that you need to get back onto your side of the road.
129
Double white lines where the line nearest you is solid. This means you MUST NOT cross or straddle it unless it is safe and you need to enter adjoining premises or a side road. You may cross the line if necessary, provided the road is clear, to pass a stationary vehicle, or overtake a pedal cycle, horse or road maintenance vehicle, if they are travelling at 10 mph (16 km/h) or less.
Just a few metres away, it says it IS a Dual 128
Double white lines where the line nearest to you is broken. This means you may cross the lines to overtake if it is safe, provided you can complete the manoeuvre before reaching a solid white line on your side. White direction arrows on the road indicate that you need to get back onto your side of the road.
129
Double white lines where the line nearest you is solid. This means you MUST NOT cross or straddle it unless it is safe and you need to enter adjoining premises or a side road. You may cross the line if necessary, provided the road is clear, to pass a stationary vehicle, or overtake a pedal cycle, horse or road maintenance vehicle, if they are travelling at 10 mph (16 km/h) or less.
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=lancing&hl=en&...
This repeated further along the road at another junction too.
How old is the Google Streetview - are they still there?
edited to follow the new PH spelling of Carriageway
Doesn't matter whether it's a dual carriageway or not, it is signed a 40. Not going to enter into the discussion on what the OP should do, that has already been covered by others admirably.
Nevertheless I would argue that despite the signs the supposed central reservation appears to be more like a series of elongated traffic islands than a true central reserve.
If this road were subject to NSL one could immediately see why the SCP had chosen to set up there, simply because of driver confusion re DC / SC? limit x / limit y applicable, where x and y are the NSL DC/SC limits for the vehicle in question.
Nevertheless I would argue that despite the signs the supposed central reservation appears to be more like a series of elongated traffic islands than a true central reserve.
If this road were subject to NSL one could immediately see why the SCP had chosen to set up there, simply because of driver confusion re DC / SC? limit x / limit y applicable, where x and y are the NSL DC/SC limits for the vehicle in question.
Don't speed in Sussex is the message. They are going crazy to clock people at the moment. Getting up early so they can catch people before the congestion makes it impossible. Double teaming. You name it, they want your money. All the van sites are pretty well documented though, none can seriously be regarded as dangerous locations though - just convenient for catching people. Although that section of road in Lancing is probably one of their more sensible sites TBH. And it is a D/C, but even a stranger in town could not possibly miss the numerous 40mph signs and speed camera signs. What was your speed OP?
dowahdiddyman said:
Basically if there is no central crash barrier it ain`t a dual and the plod have the right to cross it.
It's not (just) a crash barrier that makes a road a dual carriageway. Any physical separation (e.g. a narrow strip of grass) will do, but not a line or two of paint.Streaky
PS - "... a pea into the wind ..." - petit pois or garden? - S
F i F said:
Doesn't matter whether it's a dual carriageway or not, it is signed a 40. Not going to enter into the discussion on what the OP should do, that has already been covered by others admirably.
Nevertheless I would argue that despite the signs the supposed central reservation appears to be more like a series of elongated traffic islands than a true central reserve.
If this road were subject to NSL one could immediately see why the SCP had chosen to set up there, simply because of driver confusion re DC / SC? limit x / limit y applicable, where x and y are the NSL DC/SC limits for the vehicle in question.
It is not signed as a 40 limit when you leave several side roads (30 mph limits) exiting onto a road labeled DUAL CARRIAGEWAY so until you see a repeater (IF you see a repeater) drivers could be forgiven for thinking they were on a dual carriageway with a 30 limit!Nevertheless I would argue that despite the signs the supposed central reservation appears to be more like a series of elongated traffic islands than a true central reserve.
If this road were subject to NSL one could immediately see why the SCP had chosen to set up there, simply because of driver confusion re DC / SC? limit x / limit y applicable, where x and y are the NSL DC/SC limits for the vehicle in question.
I noticed cones on the Streetview, which is why I wondered if it was being changed at that time - which is why I wondered if the dual carriageway signs were still there.
hi guys, sorry for not replying earlier.
Yes I was caught speeding doing 49 on that stretch which is a 40 zone. It was 9.30am and anyone who uses that road will now that at that time in the morning you rarely get about 20! Anyway, i remember the day and I was just plodding along with the flow of traffic so its my own fault, all I can say is that pretty much everyone in that outside lane must of got the same letter this morning.
The reason why I posted was not that I was trying to wriggle out of the fine, but I genuinely thought that he shouldnt of parked there facing the wrong way on the 'dual carriageway' (yes those signs are still there btw). I personally would of never considered stopping on that central reservation waiting to cross as I always thought that hashed areas could not be stopped/crossed on, but it's been nearly 25 years since my test (and this is my first ticket), so have most likely forgoten about hashed lines, assuming they asked back then!
I'm tempted to at least write to the police, if just to clarify the law on if you can or cant cross/stop/park facing the opposite direction as he'd of had to cross again into oncoming traffic or do a U turn across two lanes.
First time, so I expect i'll have to do one of those courses, i'm sure they'll put my opinion right!
Yes I was caught speeding doing 49 on that stretch which is a 40 zone. It was 9.30am and anyone who uses that road will now that at that time in the morning you rarely get about 20! Anyway, i remember the day and I was just plodding along with the flow of traffic so its my own fault, all I can say is that pretty much everyone in that outside lane must of got the same letter this morning.
The reason why I posted was not that I was trying to wriggle out of the fine, but I genuinely thought that he shouldnt of parked there facing the wrong way on the 'dual carriageway' (yes those signs are still there btw). I personally would of never considered stopping on that central reservation waiting to cross as I always thought that hashed areas could not be stopped/crossed on, but it's been nearly 25 years since my test (and this is my first ticket), so have most likely forgoten about hashed lines, assuming they asked back then!
I'm tempted to at least write to the police, if just to clarify the law on if you can or cant cross/stop/park facing the opposite direction as he'd of had to cross again into oncoming traffic or do a U turn across two lanes.
First time, so I expect i'll have to do one of those courses, i'm sure they'll put my opinion right!
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