Unmarked police car...help please
Discussion
My son was stopped late last night by a unmarked 5 series, he has a Clio cup, for 'allegedly' doing 40 in a 30.
They did'nt have their camera running and could'nt show him any proof while he was in their car, only telling him that they followed him at that speed. He had a 'fixed penalty' fine and 3pts,and was also cautioned because he did'nt have his 'paper licence' on him only the card one?.
Is it an offence not to carry both?...if it is, it's news to me !!
And can he be prosecuted just by them following, with no proof?, i questioned him about it and he said he just accepted it because he did'nt want to wind them up the wrong way plus you never can win against them???
Thanks , Gary.
They did'nt have their camera running and could'nt show him any proof while he was in their car, only telling him that they followed him at that speed. He had a 'fixed penalty' fine and 3pts,and was also cautioned because he did'nt have his 'paper licence' on him only the card one?.
Is it an offence not to carry both?...if it is, it's news to me !!
And can he be prosecuted just by them following, with no proof?, i questioned him about it and he said he just accepted it because he did'nt want to wind them up the wrong way plus you never can win against them???
Thanks , Gary.
As far as I know an officer could prosecute you with no direct proof, but I was let off for speeding well over the limit. (licence losing territory)
This was a police van though, not a traffic car.
I done some reading on pepipoo, the general gist was they would either need to catch you with the good old laser gun, or have a well calibrated speedo and follow you for a certain amount of time.
Although a witness statement is sometimes enough, e.g a few officers version of events is strong enough in court.
Not sure how they put points on his licence there and then, the licence would need to get sent off for the points to be put on....
When I was caught on the phone, I didn't have my licence with me so had to go and produce my licence and insurance documents as my insurance company was closed on a sunday and it was showing that I had no insurance (which wasn't the case), anyway I had to give my licence, pay the fine and received my licence back in the post with my nice shiny points on it.
If it was me I would have asked if their speedo was calibrated, it would have been a genuine question although they might have thought I was being a smart ass.
I would also have asked how they knew I was speeding, were they following him for some time, or caught up to him after seeing him drive past? They can't tell someones speed by looking at them, and the speed they do to catch up to someone is not necessarily indicative of the speed they are travelling at.
This was a police van though, not a traffic car.
I done some reading on pepipoo, the general gist was they would either need to catch you with the good old laser gun, or have a well calibrated speedo and follow you for a certain amount of time.
Although a witness statement is sometimes enough, e.g a few officers version of events is strong enough in court.
Not sure how they put points on his licence there and then, the licence would need to get sent off for the points to be put on....
When I was caught on the phone, I didn't have my licence with me so had to go and produce my licence and insurance documents as my insurance company was closed on a sunday and it was showing that I had no insurance (which wasn't the case), anyway I had to give my licence, pay the fine and received my licence back in the post with my nice shiny points on it.
If it was me I would have asked if their speedo was calibrated, it would have been a genuine question although they might have thought I was being a smart ass.
I would also have asked how they knew I was speeding, were they following him for some time, or caught up to him after seeing him drive past? They can't tell someones speed by looking at them, and the speed they do to catch up to someone is not necessarily indicative of the speed they are travelling at.
Edited by pops and bangs on Saturday 30th July 23:38
garycab said:
My son was stopped late last night by a unmarked 5 series, he has a Clio cup, for 'allegedly' doing 40 in a 30.
Just one thing, was your son actually speeding though?If he genuinely wasn't then I would personally not have bent over.
If he was then he just needs to accept it.
As it's going to be very difficult to argue his case now, as I assume he didn't deny the offence at the time, or make any objections.
As I said I would have put up a fight especially if I thought I was innocent, obviously I'm not suggesting being rude or aggressive but there is always a way to talk to people and get your point across.
[quote=pops and bangs]As far as I know an officer could prosecute you with no direct proof, but I was let off for speeding well over the limit. (licence losing territory)
This was a police van though, not a traffic car.
I done some reading on pepipoo, the general gist was they would either need to catch you with the good old laser gun, or have a well calibrated speedo and follow you for a certain amount of time.
Although a witness statement is sometimes enough, e.g a few officers version of events is strong enough in court.
Not sure how they put points on his licence there and then, the licence would need to get sent off for the points to be put on....
When I was caught on the phone, I didn't have my licence with me so had to go and produce my licence and insurance documents as my insurance company was closed on a sunday and it was showing that I had no insurance (which wasn't the case), anyway I had to give my licence, pay the fine and received my licence back in the post with my nice shiny points on it.
If it was me I would have asked if their speedo was calibrated, it would have been a genuine question although they might have thought I was being a smart ass.
I would also have asked how they knew I was speeding, were they following him for some time, or caught up to him after seeing him drive past? They can't tell someones speed by looking at them, and the speed they do to catch up to someone is not necessarily indicative of the speed they are travelling at.
Yea the result will end in 3pts when its sent away.
As far as i know they followed him between 1/4 - 1/2 mile, have'nt spoke to him a great length, so will get some more from him tomorrow.
This was a police van though, not a traffic car.
I done some reading on pepipoo, the general gist was they would either need to catch you with the good old laser gun, or have a well calibrated speedo and follow you for a certain amount of time.
Although a witness statement is sometimes enough, e.g a few officers version of events is strong enough in court.
Not sure how they put points on his licence there and then, the licence would need to get sent off for the points to be put on....
When I was caught on the phone, I didn't have my licence with me so had to go and produce my licence and insurance documents as my insurance company was closed on a sunday and it was showing that I had no insurance (which wasn't the case), anyway I had to give my licence, pay the fine and received my licence back in the post with my nice shiny points on it.
If it was me I would have asked if their speedo was calibrated, it would have been a genuine question although they might have thought I was being a smart ass.
I would also have asked how they knew I was speeding, were they following him for some time, or caught up to him after seeing him drive past? They can't tell someones speed by looking at them, and the speed they do to catch up to someone is not necessarily indicative of the speed they are travelling at.
Edited by pops and bangs on Saturday 30th July 23:38
[/quotYea the result will end in 3pts when its sent away.
As far as i know they followed him between 1/4 - 1/2 mile, have'nt spoke to him a great length, so will get some more from him tomorrow.
This probably belongs in SP&TL but IMO he has no chance of disputing it. Sounds like there were two officers who followed and estimated his speed over distance and reckoned him to be doing 40 in a 30. He could dispute this and go to court but with presumably no evidence to the contrary it will go against him (no judge believes a MOP vs two BiB) and the fine will increase. The stuff about not having his licence I think he's just misunderstood, as young lads will - I think it's technically an offence not to have your licence but you always have 7 days to produce it at a police station.
garycab said:
He had a 'fixed penalty' fine and 3pts,and was also cautioned because he did'nt have his 'paper licence' on him only the card one?.
Is it an offence not to carry both?...if it is, it's news to me !!
That's bIs it an offence not to carry both?...if it is, it's news to me !!
ks for a start, you don't have to carry any part of your licence with you when you drive, it's just highly recommended. Was the caution more of a "it's best to keep it with you" sort of warning?K87 said:
Think aslong as there is two of them they can prosecute
This is true though, a mate of mine got done for speeding without a picture/camera footage.You normally get an allowance of 10% for speedo variations, which is 33mph. So if he felt he was going at a lower speed than 40 it could be worth looking at.
There is a similar thread here:
http://bbs.scoobynet.com/scoobynet-general-1/62086...
As with most forums, he didn't get an awful lot of support/understanding from everyone ;-)in amongs the bickering there are some interesting points, and at the top of page two there's one for someone in your sons position who disputed it, went to court and eventually won.
If you want proper advise, get yourself over to http://www.pepipoo.com/
There is a similar thread here:
http://bbs.scoobynet.com/scoobynet-general-1/62086...
As with most forums, he didn't get an awful lot of support/understanding from everyone ;-)in amongs the bickering there are some interesting points, and at the top of page two there's one for someone in your sons position who disputed it, went to court and eventually won.
If you want proper advise, get yourself over to http://www.pepipoo.com/
Gun said:
That's bks for a start, you don't have to carry any part of your licence with you when you drive, it's just highly recommended. Was the caution more of a "it's best to keep it with you" sort of warning?
It's an offence not to produce them to an officer when asked though. Met don't issue producers anymore eitherGun said:
That's bks for a start, you don't have to carry any part of your licence with you when you drive, it's just highly recommended. Was the caution more of a "it's best to keep it with you" sort of warning?
It's an offence not to produce them to an officer when asked though. Met don't issue producers anymore either66comanche said:
<snip> The stuff about not having his licence I think he's just misunderstood, as young lads will - I think it's technically an offence not to have your licence but you always have 7 days to produce it at a police station.
there are 2 parts to a UK photocard licence i. the photocard
ii. the counterpart
both parts make up the licence
having just the photocard will not satisfy the requirement to produce...
the_kato said:
Gun said:
That's bks for a start, you don't have to carry any part of your licence with you when you drive, it's just highly recommended. Was the caution more of a "it's best to keep it with you" sort of warning?
It's an offence not to produce them to an officer when asked though. Met don't issue producers anymore eitherYes they do check it on the database, theres nothing they cant find out. The only time there'll be a problem is if they dont believe you are who you say you are. Mind you, you'd think it wouldnt be too much of a technology leap for them to be able to bring up the photo applicable to the licence of who you claim to be on their in car computer or whatever they've got and see if its you or not.
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