Magistrates! Are they mad?
Discussion
The story of the 71 year pensioner was carried in both "Express" and "Mail" newspapers.
If this story is not bizarre enough.... these papers both carried the following:
1. Welsh MP escapes ban under totting up procedures by pleading utmost hardship: he will be unable to go to political "dos" and will be unable to hold surgeries for his constituents ( Have you ever tried to see your MP at a surgery - you have more chance getting past the GP's receptionist on a bad day! He was copped speeding past "Arrive Alive" talivans at 39mph in 30mph zone! (One law for them ...)
2. 16 year old yob is caught red handed with a ball bearing gun on wasteland. (Penalties - £5k fine and 6 month jail). The young scrote is firing willy nilly at houses and his mates videoing him. Neighbour called the BiBs - who came and took him home - where he "received strong words of advice"
Why?
Daddy is firearms officer in Dorset Force!
(One law for ....)
(And Dorset - is not that the one which prosecuted that bloke for eating a cop's butty - even though he replaced it with a much better one from the upper crust deli, and prosecuted the parents of a 15 year old paper lad for delivering his papers at five to seven and not five minutes past?)
3. Unemployed drug addict fined £83.84 after admitting to driving car- with dodgy headlights and bald tyres, and without tax, insurance. She struck and killed a man (who was walking along road in accordance with the HC). She failed to stop and failed to report. (Er - these each carry £5k fine and jail - do they not?)
She handed herself over to cops some 8 hours later and -- surprise, surprise - tested negative for drink and drugs! Fly or what!
The coroner recorded open verdic as there were no witnesses. The Mags told her the inquest suggested "she was not to blame!" and she had suffered "deep emotional trauma!" (Errr
Run that past me again!) She was banned for two years and fined just £83.84.
Roadpeace and Brake were both justifiably fuming over this! It beggars belief! What planet are they on?
4. It gets better! Two minutes before they banned the druggy for two years and fined her £80+ for causing accident in which man died....
they banned a 19 year old for 2 years and fined him £443. ...
Because he admitted careless driving in which he mounted the kerb and collided with a tree. His passengeer suffered some minor whiplash - but apart from that - no death, no speed ...
When you look at all 5 stories in one newspaper - you really start to wonder at the UK justice system.
Perhaps we need to look at calibre of magistrates. They punish the law-abiders who just fall foul on odd occasions - but do not commit seriously dastardly crime - and are incredibly soft on yobs and they appear to toady up to crones!
If this story is not bizarre enough.... these papers both carried the following:
1. Welsh MP escapes ban under totting up procedures by pleading utmost hardship: he will be unable to go to political "dos" and will be unable to hold surgeries for his constituents ( Have you ever tried to see your MP at a surgery - you have more chance getting past the GP's receptionist on a bad day! He was copped speeding past "Arrive Alive" talivans at 39mph in 30mph zone! (One law for them ...)
2. 16 year old yob is caught red handed with a ball bearing gun on wasteland. (Penalties - £5k fine and 6 month jail). The young scrote is firing willy nilly at houses and his mates videoing him. Neighbour called the BiBs - who came and took him home - where he "received strong words of advice"
Why?
Daddy is firearms officer in Dorset Force!
(One law for ....)
(And Dorset - is not that the one which prosecuted that bloke for eating a cop's butty - even though he replaced it with a much better one from the upper crust deli, and prosecuted the parents of a 15 year old paper lad for delivering his papers at five to seven and not five minutes past?)
3. Unemployed drug addict fined £83.84 after admitting to driving car- with dodgy headlights and bald tyres, and without tax, insurance. She struck and killed a man (who was walking along road in accordance with the HC). She failed to stop and failed to report. (Er - these each carry £5k fine and jail - do they not?)
She handed herself over to cops some 8 hours later and -- surprise, surprise - tested negative for drink and drugs!
Fly or what! The coroner recorded open verdic as there were no witnesses. The Mags told her the inquest suggested "she was not to blame!" and she had suffered "deep emotional trauma!" (Errr
Run that past me again!) She was banned for two years and fined just £83.84. Roadpeace and Brake were both justifiably fuming over this! It beggars belief! What planet are they on?
4. It gets better! Two minutes before they banned the druggy for two years and fined her £80+ for causing accident in which man died....
they banned a 19 year old for 2 years and fined him £443. ...
Because he admitted careless driving in which he mounted the kerb and collided with a tree. His passengeer suffered some minor whiplash - but apart from that - no death, no speed ...
When you look at all 5 stories in one newspaper - you really start to wonder at the UK justice system.
Perhaps we need to look at calibre of magistrates. They punish the law-abiders who just fall foul on odd occasions - but do not commit seriously dastardly crime - and are incredibly soft on yobs and they appear to toady up to crones!
Lay Magistrates should be abolished. They are for the very most part, a total waste of space. Take a look around the Court. Full of professionals. Probation Officers, the Clerk, Police Officers. Yet sat up there, 3 wise monkeys. No qualifications or legal training as such. Out for themselves. Mrs. Ponsonby-Smythe JP. Sounds terribly good doesn't it?
I see it daily. They fither and dither, retiring for 45 minutes to make a decision a stipe makes in 4.5 minutes.
Trouble is... they're cheap. If the Country had to pay for all Mags Courts to be staffed by Stipes it would cost a fortune.
I see it daily. They fither and dither, retiring for 45 minutes to make a decision a stipe makes in 4.5 minutes.
Trouble is... they're cheap. If the Country had to pay for all Mags Courts to be staffed by Stipes it would cost a fortune.
xxplod said:
Trouble is... they're cheap. If the Country had to pay for all Mags Courts to be staffed by Stipes it would cost a fortune.
Or would it? Think of all the "professionals'" time saved at Court, the fact that Stipendiary Magistrates tend to sentence more consistently, to say nothing of the fact that there a hell of a lot more "guilty" please in front of the Stipe...
Stipes (oops...district judges, sorry your worship 
) get through work in a fraction of the time lay magistrates do. It really is a massive difference. Less courts would have to sit and that would obviously lead to less running costs (other court staff DO have to be paid - court clerk, usher etc)
The length of time the lay mags sometimes spend out of court making their decisions is ridiculous at times. Prosecuters time (and defence also) could be better spent than waiting around for the mags to finish their cup of tea before coming back into court.
There are serious problems with overlisting in some of the North Yorkshire courts as I'm sure there are in other areas, which IMHO (and that of many others) would be greatly improved by utilising more stipes..whoops, there I go again.
) get through work in a fraction of the time lay magistrates do. It really is a massive difference. Less courts would have to sit and that would obviously lead to less running costs (other court staff DO have to be paid - court clerk, usher etc) The length of time the lay mags sometimes spend out of court making their decisions is ridiculous at times. Prosecuters time (and defence also) could be better spent than waiting around for the mags to finish their cup of tea before coming back into court.
There are serious problems with overlisting in some of the North Yorkshire courts as I'm sure there are in other areas, which IMHO (and that of many others) would be greatly improved by utilising more stipes..whoops, there I go again.
john_p said:
I know a magistrate who likes to be very harsh on drivers but will happily drive home from the pub after quite a few beers ..
Pass me his details and I'll happily make sure they get sent to the relevant Traffic Unit.
If he was arrested, he'd have to go to trial out of his own area, and would be suspended from the Bench until the outcome was decided.
I would argue that it's as much the way the magistrates system works, and therefore who it recruits, as much as the people themselves.
I totally agree that a large percentage of magistrates seem to be entirely disconnected from the realities in which we live (as mentioned before, an Aldershot bench magistrate did say, in response to a lad being thrown through a plate glass window by a drug dealer on Fleet highstreet "well it's just kids mucking around isn't it"), but not all of them are bad by any means.
Stipes do make decisions very quickly, and often good ones, but I've also witnessed/read/been told of staggering decisions made by them individually as well.
The problem really is that you have to be able to give up 2 days of every month to sit, as well as the required training (which is pretty detailed nowadays - being paid to do something doesnt necessairly make you good at it or I wouldnt work with so many complete retards). Companies, whilst in theory HAVE to support you, obviously dont want employees who have lots of days off each month. As a result, the magistracy is made up of elderly, or rich people (believe you me Aldershot is most certainly full of that sort)....and Im afraid the majority of the ones I've met really don't share the world with the same people we do....hence bizarre and often nonsensical decisions based around what scares them personally.
I think that having three people make a judgement, if they aren't stupid peple, is still a decent way to do things.....
N
I totally agree that a large percentage of magistrates seem to be entirely disconnected from the realities in which we live (as mentioned before, an Aldershot bench magistrate did say, in response to a lad being thrown through a plate glass window by a drug dealer on Fleet highstreet "well it's just kids mucking around isn't it"), but not all of them are bad by any means.
Stipes do make decisions very quickly, and often good ones, but I've also witnessed/read/been told of staggering decisions made by them individually as well.
The problem really is that you have to be able to give up 2 days of every month to sit, as well as the required training (which is pretty detailed nowadays - being paid to do something doesnt necessairly make you good at it or I wouldnt work with so many complete retards). Companies, whilst in theory HAVE to support you, obviously dont want employees who have lots of days off each month. As a result, the magistracy is made up of elderly, or rich people (believe you me Aldershot is most certainly full of that sort)....and Im afraid the majority of the ones I've met really don't share the world with the same people we do....hence bizarre and often nonsensical decisions based around what scares them personally.
I think that having three people make a judgement, if they aren't stupid peple, is still a decent way to do things.....
N
I thought lay magistrates were guided on sentancing by a court professional? (sorry don't know the job title).
When I was up in front of magistrates for victimless speeding in 1995, the middle seated magistrate told me they were giving me a fourteen day ban and fine and then went to close the case, with that some twerp sat in front of the magistrates shouted out reminding them of the issue of 6 points as well.
DAZ
>> Edited by dazren on Friday 4th June 11:33
When I was up in front of magistrates for victimless speeding in 1995, the middle seated magistrate told me they were giving me a fourteen day ban and fine and then went to close the case, with that some twerp sat in front of the magistrates shouted out reminding them of the issue of 6 points as well.
DAZ
>> Edited by dazren on Friday 4th June 11:33
Sorry to cross post.. but..
"My Ma's a magistrate, and desperately tries to see the "proper view" if you know what I mean..
The trouble is, she sits with on a bench of two other magistrates, who, by and large, seem to be opinionated bigoted fools (IMHO of course!) so it ends up being rather tricky to actually do the right thing.
Recently in Worcester people have been getting gatso'd at 31 and 32 mph in a 30, the majority of these people are not returning NIP's and going to court. Ma is sat there saying that this is ridiculous, 3 points (and a possible ban for the totters) and 60 for that is just silly, but her fellow Mag's, who no doubt have a friend who has a sister who's cousin's brother's sister in law once got driven into in a car park, feel that 30 is fast enough for anyone and so they should be punished... On the flip side, Ma commented the other week that the number of Mag's coming in and admitting that they've just picked up some points is quite amusing!
Having said that, Ma does drive into the Court car park with Radio 1 on as loud as she can bear.. Just to be a bit different you understand.. She’s mad my ma! "
So in summary... yup, mag's are mad!
>> Edited by slinksport on Friday 4th June 11:43
"My Ma's a magistrate, and desperately tries to see the "proper view" if you know what I mean..
The trouble is, she sits with on a bench of two other magistrates, who, by and large, seem to be opinionated bigoted fools (IMHO of course!) so it ends up being rather tricky to actually do the right thing.
Recently in Worcester people have been getting gatso'd at 31 and 32 mph in a 30, the majority of these people are not returning NIP's and going to court. Ma is sat there saying that this is ridiculous, 3 points (and a possible ban for the totters) and 60 for that is just silly, but her fellow Mag's, who no doubt have a friend who has a sister who's cousin's brother's sister in law once got driven into in a car park, feel that 30 is fast enough for anyone and so they should be punished... On the flip side, Ma commented the other week that the number of Mag's coming in and admitting that they've just picked up some points is quite amusing!
Having said that, Ma does drive into the Court car park with Radio 1 on as loud as she can bear.. Just to be a bit different you understand.. She’s mad my ma! "
So in summary... yup, mag's are mad!
>> Edited by slinksport on Friday 4th June 11:43
Thought I'd chip in as I have just been accepted as a JP!
My reasons are simple, I have some spare time during the week, have a varying experience of life from being a Bailliff to running my own company with over twenty drivers, this has given me an insight into many different lifestyles.
I am a normal bloke slightly right of centre with the opinion that if you feel the system isn't working with the people that are in it, then don't just sit there griping, get out there and try and put forward a different poit of view.
I have a feeling that I will be scuppered at every turn and will feel demoralised by the inability to punish those who obviously deserve it, this may lead to my early departure from the job. At least then I will feel able to voice my outrage at the system with some justification rather than pointless rants based on supposition.
WE WILL SEE!
Nick
My reasons are simple, I have some spare time during the week, have a varying experience of life from being a Bailliff to running my own company with over twenty drivers, this has given me an insight into many different lifestyles.
I am a normal bloke slightly right of centre with the opinion that if you feel the system isn't working with the people that are in it, then don't just sit there griping, get out there and try and put forward a different poit of view.
I have a feeling that I will be scuppered at every turn and will feel demoralised by the inability to punish those who obviously deserve it, this may lead to my early departure from the job. At least then I will feel able to voice my outrage at the system with some justification rather than pointless rants based on supposition.
WE WILL SEE!
Nick
Aprisa said:
I have a feeling that I will be scuppered at every turn and will feel demoralised by the inability to punish those who obviously deserve it, this may lead to my early departure from the job.
Have cousins who are BiBs and keep saying "They bust a gut to bring some thug to justice - only to see them let off by some soft politically correct sap of a Mag or judge!"
Have cousins who are QCs - these guys have worked both sides of the fence - but they say they are amazed at judge's interpretation of sentencing guidelines!
Most of the papers report facts - admittedly with some sensationalised embellishments - but the core material is still factual and not supposition.
Hope you will be able to stick to your guns and not be indoctrinated by the politically correct twazaks , who hate car drivers and users, middle-classes, hard workers, and potential other party voters.
Seen it all in GDR - high handed vindictiveness and no appeal ----
----- unless you show yourself to be party member and ideal subject for brainwashing.
As you say .... WE WILL SEE!
john_p said:
Interesting to see the view from the other side of the fence ...
I know a magistrate who likes to be very harsh on drivers but will happily drive home from the pub after quite a few beers ..
But trial by peers, and all that..
Please please please name and shame!!!! I'd love to bin one of these unqualified w*nkers!
On another point if, as this conviction would suggest, warning motorists of an impending potential speed trap is an offence, why then are the camera signs at the road side not committing exactly the same offence? These warn of the possibility of speed traps as well as signs that have written warnings to the same ends!
I am an ex Police officer (traffic too) and to be honest these days, especially when considering traffic law, I am ashamed to admit it.
Lets just hope the appeal is successful.
I am an ex Police officer (traffic too) and to be honest these days, especially when considering traffic law, I am ashamed to admit it.
Lets just hope the appeal is successful.
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