Your Life In Their Hands!
Discussion
Road Safety Supporter Caused Death Crash - at 5mph!
June 11, 2004 12:30
A RETIRED local government officer who campaigned for better safety along a major road where he lives has been blamed for a crash there which left a motorcyclist dead.
Anthony Tovell, 62, of Wroxham Road, Sprowston, admitted driving carelessly and was fined £1,000 and banned from driving for a year by magistrates.
But it emerged during the hearing that Tovell had raised the issue of road safety along Wroxham Road several times, predicting serious accidents.
He had taken his case to Sprowston Parish Council, Norfolk County Council and Norwich North MP Dr Ian Gibson.
The fatal crash happened as Tovell was turning into the driveway of his home on the evening of December 19 last year, city magistrates heard yesterday.
Speaking to the Evening News at his home after the case, Tovell said: "We've actually sent more than 30 letters registering our concern and anxiety about the safety of the road and ironically we've actually used the phrase 'someone will be injured or killed' if something isn't done.
"We now have three lanes, two Norwich bound and a part-time bus lane on the left — it just makes it extremely difficult for people living on this side of the road to cross.
"As I told the court you develop a process of manoeuvring into your own property on this occasion I did just that, but I just failed to see a motorcyclist."
Mr Tovell said he was not using a mobile phone, did not have the radio on, had no alcohol in his body,
and was not going any faster than five mph.......
......Prosecutor Andrew Baxter told the court: "The defendant later stated 'there was an almighty bang'. He said at no point had he seen the motorcycle which he described as 'coming from nowhere'."
Anna Farquharson, for Tovell, said: "Without doubt this is a manoeuvre with which he was familiar, but this is not a case of familiarity breeding contempt. Tovell describes himself as very careful when driving his car into his drive."........
From:
www.en24.co.uk/content/news/Story.asp?Brand=ENONLINE&Category=NEWS&ItemId=NOED11+Jun+2004+12%3A34%3A34%3A290
June 11, 2004 12:30
A RETIRED local government officer who campaigned for better safety along a major road where he lives has been blamed for a crash there which left a motorcyclist dead.
Anthony Tovell, 62, of Wroxham Road, Sprowston, admitted driving carelessly and was fined £1,000 and banned from driving for a year by magistrates.
But it emerged during the hearing that Tovell had raised the issue of road safety along Wroxham Road several times, predicting serious accidents.
He had taken his case to Sprowston Parish Council, Norfolk County Council and Norwich North MP Dr Ian Gibson.
The fatal crash happened as Tovell was turning into the driveway of his home on the evening of December 19 last year, city magistrates heard yesterday.
Speaking to the Evening News at his home after the case, Tovell said: "We've actually sent more than 30 letters registering our concern and anxiety about the safety of the road and ironically we've actually used the phrase 'someone will be injured or killed' if something isn't done.
"We now have three lanes, two Norwich bound and a part-time bus lane on the left — it just makes it extremely difficult for people living on this side of the road to cross.
"As I told the court you develop a process of manoeuvring into your own property on this occasion I did just that, but I just failed to see a motorcyclist."
Mr Tovell said he was not using a mobile phone, did not have the radio on, had no alcohol in his body,
and was not going any faster than five mph.......
......Prosecutor Andrew Baxter told the court: "The defendant later stated 'there was an almighty bang'. He said at no point had he seen the motorcycle which he described as 'coming from nowhere'."
Anna Farquharson, for Tovell, said: "Without doubt this is a manoeuvre with which he was familiar, but this is not a case of familiarity breeding contempt. Tovell describes himself as very careful when driving his car into his drive."........
From:
www.en24.co.uk/content/news/Story.asp?Brand=ENONLINE&Category=NEWS&ItemId=NOED11+Jun+2004+12%3A34%3A34%3A290
NB: This is a different story to the above
Road Safety Officer Causes Fatal Bike Crash
29th October 2003
...admitted to having two bald front tyres on his Vauxhall Vectra.....
....fined £150 for the tyre offences......
.....admitted pulling into the path of an oncoming motorcycle...
......claiming that he had not seen the bike....
.......causing a collision which resulted in the death of the rider.....
........coroner recorded a verdict of accidental death.....
.........received six penalty points for driving without due care and attention from North Avon magistrates. He was also fined £170.......
Mind you, he was:
A road safety officer, who at the time of the accident, was working for South Gloucestershire Council .... to investigate road accidents and make remedial recommendations.
Originally From (dead link):
www.motorcyclenews.com/news/detail?sectionID=50677&documentID=184421
>> Edited by bogush on Sunday 13th June 11:30
Road Safety Officer Causes Fatal Bike Crash
29th October 2003
...admitted to having two bald front tyres on his Vauxhall Vectra.....
....fined £150 for the tyre offences......
.....admitted pulling into the path of an oncoming motorcycle...
......claiming that he had not seen the bike....
.......causing a collision which resulted in the death of the rider.....
........coroner recorded a verdict of accidental death.....
.........received six penalty points for driving without due care and attention from North Avon magistrates. He was also fined £170.......
Mind you, he was:
A road safety officer, who at the time of the accident, was working for South Gloucestershire Council .... to investigate road accidents and make remedial recommendations.
Originally From (dead link):
www.motorcyclenews.com/news/detail?sectionID=50677&documentID=184421
>> Edited by bogush on Sunday 13th June 11:30
WORLD'S TOP ROAD SAFETY EXPERT KILLED BY BUS
By Andy Lines, Us Editor In New York
March 28 2002?
THE world's leading expert on road safety has been knocked down by a bus and killed.
Susie Stephens, 36, died as she ran across the street during a conference on how to cut road deaths............
...............The driver of the tour bus said he didn't see her in time and was not charged.
But friends believe the law should be changed.
Barbara Culp, of the Bicycle Alliance, said: "We want to criminalise acts like the one that killed Susie.............
From:
www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/page.cfm?objectid=11732284&method=full&siteid=50143
Why don't they criminalise jaywalking instead, that actually might have saved her!
>> Edited by bogush on Sunday 13th June 11:27
By Andy Lines, Us Editor In New York
March 28 2002?
THE world's leading expert on road safety has been knocked down by a bus and killed.
Susie Stephens, 36, died as she ran across the street during a conference on how to cut road deaths............
...............The driver of the tour bus said he didn't see her in time and was not charged.
But friends believe the law should be changed.
Barbara Culp, of the Bicycle Alliance, said: "We want to criminalise acts like the one that killed Susie.............
From:
www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/page.cfm?objectid=11732284&method=full&siteid=50143
Why don't they criminalise jaywalking instead, that actually might have saved her!
>> Edited by bogush on Sunday 13th June 11:27
Many of these are caused by windscreen pillar obscuration. See:
www.smidsy.org.uk (which I maintain) and:
www.smidsy.org.uk (which I maintain) and:
bogush said:
He said at no point had he seen the motorcycle which he described as 'coming from nowhere'."
It always winds me up I when people complain that other drivers / riders are dangerous because they 'came from nowhere'.
Translation - 'I was paying so little attention that I didn't notice them until they were 5 yards away'. Poor vision at junctions, come on. Is there really anyone stupid enough to not understand how to move their head to look round an object such as a pillar? Or too lazy to bother?
mojocvh said:
They teach Tornado pilots to keep moving their heads to avoid exactly this type of vision problem..(the pillars not friggen motorbikes)
Quite. But they never bothered to tell drivers. It isn't in the Highway Code or any of the official manuals.
And for many drivers the brain tunes out the pillar and it isn't seen or considered.
I have been nagging at the Highway Code people and they agreed to list it for possible inclusion in the next full edition.
I'm not suggesting that the motorcyclist was in any way to blame, but does anyone know what speed he/she was doing pre collision?
Most of the motorcyclists I see seem to have much better observations than car drivers, and they all seem to drive around with their lights on, which can only increase their visibility to other road users - unless of course we're getting so used to seeing MC headlights, we're now blocking them out like we do with the pillars.
I'd agree with other postsers about the "A" and "B" pillars. You do tend to blot them out subconsciously, and they are getting wider and wider. Some of the cars I drive at work are a nightmare, as we often have to sit in a slightly strange position becuase of body armour, equipment belt, etc.
Most of the motorcyclists I see seem to have much better observations than car drivers, and they all seem to drive around with their lights on, which can only increase their visibility to other road users - unless of course we're getting so used to seeing MC headlights, we're now blocking them out like we do with the pillars.
I'd agree with other postsers about the "A" and "B" pillars. You do tend to blot them out subconsciously, and they are getting wider and wider. Some of the cars I drive at work are a nightmare, as we often have to sit in a slightly strange position becuase of body armour, equipment belt, etc.
But the point I was trying to make was:
Your Life In Their Hands!
June 11, 2004 Road Safety Supporter Caused Death Crash - at 5mph!
A RETIRED local government officer who campaigned for better safety.....
29th October 2003 Road Safety Officer Causes Fatal Bike Crash
March 28 2002? WORLD'S TOP ROAD SAFETY EXPERT KILLED BY BUS
as she ran across the street during a conference on how to cut road deaths
These are the people telling the rest of us that they know best how to make the roads safer.
Your Life In Their Hands!
June 11, 2004 Road Safety Supporter Caused Death Crash - at 5mph!
A RETIRED local government officer who campaigned for better safety.....
29th October 2003 Road Safety Officer Causes Fatal Bike Crash
March 28 2002? WORLD'S TOP ROAD SAFETY EXPERT KILLED BY BUS
as she ran across the street during a conference on how to cut road deaths
These are the people telling the rest of us that they know best how to make the roads safer.
Is this one of those stupid bus lanes? that bikes are also allowed in by any chance? that is effectively undertaking.
If this is the case then I am aware these are extremely dangerous places, coming from a cyclist.
If wanting to turn left into your house across a bus lane, you often have a blind spot in your mirrors.
Its not difficult to put yourself in the same situation, you can do a rearward vision check but easily miss someone.
Road engineering/rules may well be the fault here. Whats the rules on giving way if your crossing a bus/cycle lane?? got to admit I don't honestly know.
>> Edited by cptsideways on Saturday 12th June 23:25
If this is the case then I am aware these are extremely dangerous places, coming from a cyclist.
If wanting to turn left into your house across a bus lane, you often have a blind spot in your mirrors.
Its not difficult to put yourself in the same situation, you can do a rearward vision check but easily miss someone.
Road engineering/rules may well be the fault here. Whats the rules on giving way if your crossing a bus/cycle lane?? got to admit I don't honestly know.
>> Edited by cptsideways on Saturday 12th June 23:25
Dibble said:
I'm not suggesting that the motorcyclist was in any way to blame, but does anyone know what speed he/she was doing pre collision?
Most of the motorcyclists I see seem to have much better observations than car drivers, and they all seem to drive around with their lights on, which can only increase their visibility to other road users - unless of course we're getting so used to seeing MC headlights, we're now blocking them out like we do with the pillars.
I'd agree with other postsers about the "A" and "B" pillars. You do tend to blot them out subconsciously, and they are getting wider and wider. Some of the cars I drive at work are a nightmare, as we often have to sit in a slightly strange position becuase of body armour, equipment belt, etc.
re "Most of the motorcyclists I see seem to have much better observations than car drivers" - thanks for that dibble. I reckon ( and I drive a car as well as a bike ) if car drivers were made, even for a short time, to ride a bike, THEN they would understand that WE have to take into account :-
1.The elements more than car drivers
2.Road surface ( potholes, diesel spills etc)
3.Road positioning
4.etc
Now I,m not pretending all bikers are angels but it is a f*** site harder to ride a bike safely than a car ( two wheels, balance, observation )
bogush said:
Barbara Culp, of the Bicycle Alliance, said: "We want to criminalise acts like the one that killed Susie.............
Can someone please explain to me how and in what universe this makes sense..? A professional driver of a tour bus doing his job hits a woman who runs into the road and it's the drivers fault..!!!!!
I used to be a traffic management engineer and about a year in to to the job I recieved a letter from an irate member of the public that has always stuck with me (this is nearly 20 years ago and i remember it verbatim).
It read...I cannot count the number of times a toddler has sped into the road on his or her plastic tricycle to be narrowly missed by a speeding motorist.
The response...Traffic calming all along the road as there was a high injury rate on there. My argument at the time was that if the parents of these children are negligent enough to allow this to happen then the best way of addressing it was to guard rail the whole street. Didn't go down well....
Obviously it's not the criminally negligent parents fault, obviously we can't tell them that as it might lose some poxy councillor a few votes and his expense account. Saving lives, nah, got to be re-elected that's the priority... Someone needs to tell these idiots that roads can be dangerous places for pedestrians and if you don't pay due respect to it you run the risk of getting hurt or killed. Never mind blaming the driver take some self responsibility. No, second thoughts, lets legislate so we all have to drive giant blancmage padded vehicles everywhere restricted to 3mph.
This bloody country has gone down the pan...It's all about appearing to do something and victimising a scapegoat not actually adressing the real probelms for fear of upsetting someone.
Thank god he wasn't driving a Porsche or he'd be picking the soap up at her majesty's pleasure by now.
Rant over....
For now....
>> Edited by DRG on Monday 14th June 16:08
I wonder if this is the car driver's fault:
Toddler hit on dual carriageway
A three-year-old boy has died after being hit by a car as he walked down a lane of a dual carriageway.
The toddler was on lane one of the A412 Uxbridge Road in Slough when he was hit by a blue Peugeot 306. Police believe someone else may have been with him.
He was taken to Wexham Park Hospital in Slough after the accident on Sunday at 2040 BST, but died from his injuries in the early hours of Monday.
Police expected to release the boy's name later.
Two family liaison officers are visiting his family on Monday afternoon to find out more about the toddler's last hours.
A Thames Valley Police spokeswoman said: "The circumstances of the collision are under investigation but we cannot release any more information at present."
Anyone who witnessed the crash is urged to call Pc David Smailes at Thames Valley Police.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/berkshire/3805571.stm
Toddler hit on dual carriageway
A three-year-old boy has died after being hit by a car as he walked down a lane of a dual carriageway.
The toddler was on lane one of the A412 Uxbridge Road in Slough when he was hit by a blue Peugeot 306. Police believe someone else may have been with him.
He was taken to Wexham Park Hospital in Slough after the accident on Sunday at 2040 BST, but died from his injuries in the early hours of Monday.
Police expected to release the boy's name later.
Two family liaison officers are visiting his family on Monday afternoon to find out more about the toddler's last hours.
A Thames Valley Police spokeswoman said: "The circumstances of the collision are under investigation but we cannot release any more information at present."
Anyone who witnessed the crash is urged to call Pc David Smailes at Thames Valley Police.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/berkshire/3805571.stm
Mon Ami Mate said:
I wonder if this is the <a href="http://www.ntsearch.com/search.php?q=car&v=56">car</a> driver's fault:
Toddler hit on dual carriageway
A three-year-old boy has died after being hit by a <a href="http://www.ntsearch.com/search.php?q=car&v=56">car</a> as he walked down a lane of a dual carriageway.
The toddler was on lane one of the A412 Uxbridge Road in Slough when he was hit by a blue Peugeot 306. Police believe someone else may have been with him.
He was taken to Wexham Park Hospital in Slough after the accident on Sunday at 2040 BST, but died from his injuries in the early hours of Monday.
Police expected to release the boy's name later.
Two <a href="http://www.ntsearch.com/search.php?q=family&v=56">family</a> liaison officers are visiting his <a href="http://www.ntsearch.com/search.php?q=family&v=56">family</a> on Monday afternoon to find out more about the toddler's last hours.
A Thames Valley Police spokeswoman said: "The circumstances of the collision are under investigation but we cannot release any more information at present."
Anyone who witnessed the crash is urged to call Pc David Smailes at Thames Valley Police.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/berkshire/3805571.stm
Well, if the toddler was walking along the lane, then yes, the driver must take a share of the blame, why did the driver not see the toddler? Poor observation?
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