12 Points, What Now?
Discussion
Hello, I'm new here (was recommended by a friend).
Anyway, I got my first 3 points in March 2001 and today received notice that I'd been caught on camera doing 38 in a 30 zone in Worcester last Saturday which means I'll have accumulated 12 points once they go on my licence.
1. I'm just gonna send my licence back with the £60 fine, but what happens then?
2. I've assumed I'll get a ban for totting up to 12 points, but does anyone have any idea how long that is likely to be?
3. Will I have to go to court for reaching 12 points?
By the way, I'm not trying to weasel out of anything, I just want to know what the likely outcome will be.
Thanks for any advice you can give.
>>> Edited by Allroad on Saturday 12th June 12:43
Anyway, I got my first 3 points in March 2001 and today received notice that I'd been caught on camera doing 38 in a 30 zone in Worcester last Saturday which means I'll have accumulated 12 points once they go on my licence.
1. I'm just gonna send my licence back with the £60 fine, but what happens then?
2. I've assumed I'll get a ban for totting up to 12 points, but does anyone have any idea how long that is likely to be?
3. Will I have to go to court for reaching 12 points?
By the way, I'm not trying to weasel out of anything, I just want to know what the likely outcome will be.
Thanks for any advice you can give.
>>> Edited by Allroad on Saturday 12th June 12:43
You can't get a Fixed Penalty Notice (£60 fine/3 points) if you are already on 9 points. You've got your Notice of Intended Prosecution asking you to name the driver at the time of the offence. Once you've sent this back they will send you a summons to go to court. I think fine/six month ban is the usual scenario, unless you can plead excessive hardship successfully (getting harder to do I believe).
I may have missed details, but if I have, someone will correct me sharpish!
I may have missed details, but if I have, someone will correct me sharpish!
julianhj said:
I think fine/six month ban is the usual scenario, unless you can plead excessive hardship successfully (getting harder to do I believe).
Thanks. My understanding, however, is that a 6 month ban for totting up only applies if the 12 points are accumulated in a 3 year period (and I accumulated mine in 3 years and 3 months, so I'm hoping I won't get the full 6 months).
Allroad said:
I think fine/six month ban is the usual scenario, unless you can plead excessive hardship successfully (getting harder to do I believe).
Thanks. My understanding, however, is that a 6 month ban for totting up only applies if the 12 points are accumulated in a 3 year period (and I accumulated mine in 3 years and 3 months, so I'm hoping I won't get the full 6 months).
Ahh, for that, someone else is in a better position to answer - I was under the impression that points are valid for 3 years but stayed on your licence for four. Not sure where that leaves you, but the answer will be here soon.
Allroad said:
My understanding, however, is that a 6 month ban for totting up only applies if the 12 points are accumulated in a 3 year period (and I accumulated mine in 3 years and 3 months, so I'm hoping I won't get the full 6 months).
You are correct; 'totting up' bans can only be applied for offences committed within three years of each other.
That does not preclude them banning you for an individual transgression, should they deem the speed serious enough.
The points added in March 2001 have expired, you cannot get them removed from your license until they are 5 years old but after 3 years they are not included in your 12 point 'allowance'. Also, I think that it is the date of the offence not the date that the points were added that is relevant.
david_s said:
The points added in March 2001 have expired, you cannot get them removed from your license until they are 5 years old but after 3 years they are not included in your 12 point 'allowance'. Also, I think that it is the date of the offence not the date that the points were added that is relevant.
David, does that mean I won't/may not get a ban then?
I am not an expert, but as I understand it you have to accrue 12 points within 3 years to be banned under the totting up rule. The 3 points you received in March 2001 will not count towards this total. So assuming that you only have 6 current points under three years old, and get another 3 for your latest escapade, you will have a total of 9 points less than 3 years old. So no automatic ban. But I have been wrong before...
There is a chance Allroad if you check your dates of offences the first 3 points in March 2001 may well be spent if they are more than 3 years old. i.e if offence leading to that conviction occurred on 2.3.2001 they come off you Licence on 1.3.2004.
But if you have accumulated 9 points in the past three years leading to the date of your last offence that you say will take you to 12 then once forms have been submitted then if first para above applies you will be asked for 60 notes and 3 points on Licence. If it doesn't apply then you will receive summons for Court appearance and you could be facing a 6 month ban.
Possible if you can prove, and I mean prove, a ban would cause extreme hardship to your personal circumstances then the Court can put aside the ban and fine you only.
Or, I understand the latest tack is to ask the Bench to give you a shorter ban on for the current offence at Court for (40 odd days or so) In such the ban removes the points from this current offence and thus will leave 9 points on your Licence as a deterrent.
Its outlined somewhere in a case R vJones which a chap said he would EMail but never did. Ran this past a Solicitor friend and he says can be put forward.
Points for speeding remain on Licence after being spent at 3 years for an extra year when you can ask DVLA to give you a clean counterpart. The more serious offenbce remain longer on file.
DVD
But if you have accumulated 9 points in the past three years leading to the date of your last offence that you say will take you to 12 then once forms have been submitted then if first para above applies you will be asked for 60 notes and 3 points on Licence. If it doesn't apply then you will receive summons for Court appearance and you could be facing a 6 month ban.
Possible if you can prove, and I mean prove, a ban would cause extreme hardship to your personal circumstances then the Court can put aside the ban and fine you only.
Or, I understand the latest tack is to ask the Bench to give you a shorter ban on for the current offence at Court for (40 odd days or so) In such the ban removes the points from this current offence and thus will leave 9 points on your Licence as a deterrent.
Its outlined somewhere in a case R vJones which a chap said he would EMail but never did. Ran this past a Solicitor friend and he says can be put forward.
Points for speeding remain on Licence after being spent at 3 years for an extra year when you can ask DVLA to give you a clean counterpart. The more serious offenbce remain longer on file.
DVD
Thanks for the advice guys. Sounds like I might be OK after all.
The dates of my "offences" (all SP30) were:
04.03.01
12.09.01
13.09.03; and
05.06.04
So if the first one is spent/expired, this latest 3 should take me back up to 9 again (which will go back down to 6 if I stay clean until 12.09.04).
I thought points expired after 4 years, not 3, which is why I thought I was looking at a ban.
The dates of my "offences" (all SP30) were:
04.03.01
12.09.01
13.09.03; and
05.06.04
So if the first one is spent/expired, this latest 3 should take me back up to 9 again (which will go back down to 6 if I stay clean until 12.09.04).
I thought points expired after 4 years, not 3, which is why I thought I was looking at a ban.
Allroad said:
I thought points expired after 4 years, not 3, which is why I thought I was looking at a ban.
No. They expire after 3, but remain on your licence for 4.
The extra year is to prevent people who get a disqualifying offence just within the three years, but which will not come to court till after the three years from the first offence, getting the first offence points removed from the licence before the court hearing. The court doesn't then know about the original 3 points, so he escapes a ban.
Dwight VanDriver said:
JA
But the Court knows everything......
The Clerk IIRC will have a print out of the defendants driving record from DVLA with everything on it, from this he calculates the points.
DVD
Another fundamental right from the British justice removed?
Having paid your debt to society you are free to go UNLESS we want to use it to colour our judgement in the future.
Dwight VanDriver said:
But the Court knows everything......
The Clerk IIRC will have a print out of the defendants driving record from DVLA with everything on it, from this he calculates the points.
Remember, the change was made ~ 20 years ago, and that was the 'official' reason. Whether that was 'spin' and there was actually another, I have no idea.
jeffreyarcher said:
I thought points expired after 4 years, not 3, which is why I thought I was looking at a ban.
No. They expire after 3, but remain on your licence for 4.
So Jeff, even though I have 9 points on my licence, the ones from March 2001 don't count towards my "12 point allowance", just the ones from Sept 2001 and Sept 2003 are "live". That means the points I'll get for the new offence will take me back up to 9, not 12?
If that's correct, it's a huge relief !
Allroad said:
So Jeff, even though I have 9 points on my licence, the ones from March 2001 don't count towards my "12 point allowance", just the ones from Sept 2001 and Sept 2003 are "live". That means the points I'll get for the new offence will take me back up to 9, not 12?
AIUI, yes.
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